*Nerwen*

well those pictures don't look as bad as the one before. and GB and Kaz are right it normally stops with the pin feathers

fantastic work!!

I'm not sure with some of the"boys" either. How old is Lily, Echo and Atlas?? To me they all look like young hens. Toothless has the bright pink cere of a young male.

bluey is a he - from the story and info it was clear we has a male with issues (just using the picture all would think hen)

that sounds like a good step forward for little Bluey

I would keep an eye on the parents - i think one of them might be plucking them. the oldest should have fluff starting to show all over its body

also they might not have been given the information when that line was brought into their own stock, so if they had no cinnamon chicks they assumed that he wasn't.

an updated picture would be great. Second picture the two tail feathers look dark - they should be yellow for a spangle (yes it could be a fault) but there is something different in that first shot with the flight feathers

are you looking to join into the show side of things?? your birds look great I wouldn't mind the cock - i could use his grey grey to some of my hens Not sure if you know genetics but i like the pairing for some a possible interesting clutch of babies. Look forward to the hatching and developing of chicks

the cock has to be split cinnamon.

yeah a know pieds were a big part of the early breeding. i like the term grizzled spangles - suit the way the gene works. but Melanistic has been used

pet shops love to sell EVERYTHING, it is their job. Since you rescued her it might be a good idea to worm, if you are worried. A picture will help with the eye - the grey you see is called an iris ring and is normal with most types of budgies. some types do not get them. you budgie might just be at the age that the rings are developing hence the difference. but again picture are needed to be sure. hen coming out of breeding condition will get a pale blue cere when the brown flakes off

once DF it is impossible as all the markings are gone. I don't have any DF myself but i believed the DF melanistic spangle had some colour all over their body. I will search to see if I can find Daz's pictures of his. Hilly is right the babies have normal wings markings and a spangle tail when in baby feathers and the slowly moult into the more normal spangle look. It only hit me when i was looking at these last lot of pictures that you stated mum was a M.spangle, i had to check her out as i was surprised she won a place in a show as i heard show breeders didn't like this mutation. here is the DF M spangle from Daz: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a26/darrylw/1W002.jpg http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a26/darrylw/PR-1W026.jpg I believe both are being called DF M.Sangle link to topic http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index.php?showtopic=15339&st=0&p=178486&hl=+melanistic%20+spangles&fromsearch=1entry178486

are you sure she is DF Melanistic Spangle ? I would not expect normal spangles from her but rather M. spangles (sf)

i want that last one!

just sounds like she is coming out of breeding condition - they have a pale blue cere then (as when they where young) where do you have the picture stored?

i would wait for more feathers - though i did notice the difference in the flight feathers in the first picture. There is recessive pied which can be carried down a line for awhile before appearing in a chick.

i don't see violet signs for the first two. or any signs of greywings bird 1 - YF spangle (no opaline) bird 2 - YF spangle bird 3 - I can see two/three lines above the eye is this the only markings the bird has? DF dom pied would fit. how do you know they are not related? the first two could be brother and sister as they are the same type and look to be about the same age.

I stay group shot would help HEAPS! as seeing the difference in one shot can be easier. Chicks 2 &3 - hens the other two it is hard to tell. I lean towards hen for the first one and cock for the last one (stunning colour)

yes i read about it, first i had heard of it myself. but it didn't make it very clear on why it was different to grey wings or cinnamons in look.

grapes are fine, mine love nibbling on them on hot days, you can poke them through the bars of the cage or split them in two and put in a dish

agree

Yeah i know of the blackface budgie which is why i think a black budgie is possible.

not sure on the show side of things orange beak - the pied gene affects all bird differently and for these two bird it might have removed some pigment from the beak area. Do they have pink legs? 2- the mother sounds like a Dutch pied - what was she paired with to get the offspring? pictures would help

yes in the colour wheel red and blue = purple but like you stated it is a modifier in budgie - which is just changing the way the light reflects of the feathers changing how our eyes see it. having the violet factor in a bird doesn't mean a red gene has been added. (ps not a scientist so i might have worded it 'technical incorrect' but i understand it and hope others do as well) There is still a chance for something new to appear in budgies but i'm waiting to see a black one before any pink tone one to appear.