RIPbudgies

:raincloud: :raincloud: :raincloud: :raincloud: :raincloud:

Back in the eighties this was the fad. As far as I am aware it came about through trials done within the pig industry.

you can always eat it rip :rofl: Yeah GB I'll spread it on my weeties.

Your bird is single factor Goldenface (also know as Australian YF) Australian Dominant Pied in either Cobalt or Sky Blue. The Goldenface face is another form of yellowfaced blue. There are three. Yellowface Mutant 1; Yellowface Mutant 2 and Goldenface. They form with the Green and Blue series birds what is termed multiple alleles. Which is to say they are variations of one gene. The Goldenface is no harder or trickier to breed than other other variety. What is confusing people is the inability to recognise the various mutations in both the single and double factor form. Also the amount of misleading rubbish written over the years that just won't go away.

Any grain priduct will eventually give you moths if it is laying around long enough, even seed. Zappers are great like Kaz said. I have used bran in the nest boxes and also pine shavings. I prefer pine shavings but had to settle for bran as my orignal supply has gone. As luck (or not) would have the day I buy 5kg of bran I go to check out a new show and guess what I find? Pressed blocks of pine shavings. Oh well won't take long to use the bran up.

Mauve can sometimes be mistaken for Grey. Mauve will have a dark blue tail where as Grey have a Black tail.

Link to the branch listing for the Budgerigar Society of NSW http://www.budgerigar.com.au/bsnswbranches.htm

Coming along very nicely indeed. I am heading up to Mundaring on Saturday for a Model Horse Show so I will see how things go and I might be able to swing round and have a look if ya gonna be home.

I think my statement about cheque book champs (CBC) has been taken in a different light to what I actually meant. Maybe I just didn't make it clear enough and I certainly idn't mean that you, Renee are one. I don't mean people who spend a lot of money, regardless of grade, are cheque book champs. Let me see if I can make it a little clearer. In order to breed budgies first you buy some. Now in order to progress you stay in the hobby some years and keep breeding. In this state you do not need to win big shows in fact you do not need to win at all. Just stay in long enough and you will make it to Champion grade. Now what a CBC does is win at consistenly high level not by using their brains in pairing birds together and creating families in which that breeder creates their own unique style of budgie. What they do is consistently buy in stock at high prices from top breeders to keep and maintain the level of wins. I am not going to mention names as it serves no purpose. Years ago I knew such a CBC breeder. If you went to his place you would find no consistency in the overall type. By that I mean if you looked at his normals they were different, no consistent features. By that I mean that each breeder although breeding towards the standard of the day still has in his/her own mind what they are looking for and what they are working on. This consistency will show through after many generations to the point you can see a bird on the bench and say I bet such and such bred that. This breeder bred a real smashing budgie which went to ANBC level and won so many shows and in my opinion was over shown but he had to keep showing this bird to win cause he had noting else. Being a Novice and moving into Intermediate I bought birds from this person but these birds never formed the corner stone of my stud and never would. This I realised some years down the track. Why? Because those birds hitting the show birds could not go on to produce winners or even breeders. They were a shot in the dark. A click of just the right pairing. This breeder every year spent thousands of dollars and bought from the best in the country....Henry George, Nigel Tonkin, Kelwin Kakoshke, John Scoble and list goes on. I learnt in the end not to buy his birds but the birds he had bought and was finished with. It was these birds that when used correctly formed the corner stone of my stud. I remember my first days into this hobby and I know who helped me. some of those people are no longer with us. I, like the Novices of today spent money and bought birds from every where. Then as I got better at breeding and decided to concentrate more on improving and sorting the wheat from the chaff I began to reduce the spending. Got smarter about where and what to buy. Realised also that sometimes you got to pay more than $20-$30 for a bird.

Renee I must disagree with some of what you have written. Keep in mind I am not having a go at you but drawing on my experience in the show budgie game over twenty years in Western Australia. Here in the West there has always been a lack of competition especially for the rarer varieties. Novice breeders here are able to show bought birds and as a result what can be seen on the show bench at this level will vary a great deal in quality. After the first breeding season Novices can then bench their own breeding results and it is hoped that they can judge them against others in their grade and see improvements if any. Some Novices are just not good at breeding and never will be and some just show bought birds cause they can use their ever full cheque book to short cut their success. Once you leave Novice and enter Intermediate grade you can no longer show a bought bird. This is when some leave the hobby. It now becomes harder to prove you know your stuff and for those who like to win and suddenly find themselves out of the money, well off they go. The hobby is better off without these types of people in it. Renee your statement about being on the right track is not always correct. At small club shows it is possible for you to be the only person with birds entered in a particular class on a particular day. So this then does not give you any idea at all that you are on the right track. As a rare breeder I consistently benched birds in the Black Eye Self, Greywing and Clearwing classes with no competition, no other birds to guage where I was headed. When the Texas Clearbodies came to WA I was the first to bench them here and for awhile I had no competition. I regularly benched birds such as Brownwings, Darkwings, Saddlebacks with no competition. My aim however was never to win at all costs, this is a bonus. My aim was and still is to enjoy the hobby of keeping and showing budgies. For now however due to reason outside my control I can only breed them, the showing is limited to ag shows with budgie sections. I have always attempted to help those new to the hobby. Many times going out of my way to go to the beginner's house and evalutate their setup, their birds and these little trips would involve at least half a day at my expense. I would give them birds to start and/or sell good birds at rediculous prices. I regularly encouraged juniors and in fact when I was running the Budgerigar Society of WA we had more juniors than any other club in WA. Juniors will usually only be around for a small amount of time. They are limited by their parents and they will usually leave the hobby once boys/girls, cars/horses etc are discovered. Rest assured though the bug has bitten and they quite often return later in life when they have settled down and have a family. My son is a case in point. He gave them up in his teens. He is now 30 and has lately been considering taking up budgies again. He bred Normals and Cinnamon but he also liked the Crested variety. So WA could have another Crested breeder returning to the ranks. I tell you what one of the biggest mistakes a beginner makes is the buying of birds from all over the place and lacking the knowledge to put it all together. I have seen so many good birds purchased from top breeders wasted by pairing to imcompatible partners. Also just because somebody is winning all the time does not mean they are breeding top birds. Some of these people are cheque book champs. They have unlimited financial resources and keep buying top quality birds. Pair them together and produce some outstanding birds (F1 gen) and show the same birds all the time and win. These winners when paired usually produce substandard birds and so the breeders keeps buying in birds. However the astute breeder will perservere with these F1 gen birds and solidify the traits and a few generations down the track will begin to pull out the traits that lay hidden. Breeders who have reached the champion status should not need to be buying birds at every auction going, they should only need to purchase occasionl outcrosses when the need arises. Breeding show budgies is not an easy road, but if you are lucky enough to find a mentor to guide you it will be an easier than going alone. Remember though a mentor may not be in the Champion grade or be winning best in show or even show up at meetings/shows. I know plently of folks still breeding out there who know there stuff but don't participate at club level any more.

Photos are not the best and rear shots would be a good idea. Based on what I can see: Cock is a Dilute Opaline single factor Yellowface Mutant 2 Sky or Cobalt. You can just see the Opaline like striations on the neck. The spots on the mask are quite pale, too pale for a Greywing. The fact that the body colour is also quite diluted, too much for a Greywing. As for the colour if you have indeed produced a Cobalt youngster then the cock is a Cobalt. Hen is single factor Dominant Pied Light Green. You state that her parents are a pied and a normal so therefore she cannot be a df Dom Pied. This hen shows what I keep trying to get across to people on this and other forums that an extremely pied out bird is not always a double factor, it can only be tested by breeding or by the pairing of two double factored pieds! This bird is also split Blue Looking at the results of what you have produced and taking into consideration incorrect classifications. In general all the Opalines are hens. Any Pieds are all single factor. Chick 1. Opaline YF1 Cinnamon Sky - This is a single factor Yellowface Mutant 2. In nest feather the yellowface will be confined. Once the bird moults it will look like its father. A Yellowface Mutant 2 cannot when paired to a normal produce a Yellowface Mutant 1 even if the hen was split YF which it is not as it have proven by the results to be split for Blue. The fact this bird you say is Cinnamon means the cock bird is split for Cinnamon. Chick 2. Opaline Green - will be dark or light green (need photos) Chick 3. DF Dom Pied Green- CANNOT get a double factored pied from one pied parent. Again will be Dark or Light Green (need photos) Chick 4. SF Dom Pied Cobalt - For this bird to be a Cobalt the cock would need to be a Cobalt (need photos). Chick 5. Opaline Greywing Sky - Would be a hen. Greywing, doubt it based on the father but not impossible. The hen would need to be split Greywing to produce one. Chances are this chick is a Dilute and if so the hen is split Dilute. Clear photos of the parents both front and back would be nice as would photos of the chicks.

I would not breed these birds together again. The odds are too high to produce more of the same. You need to think long and hard if you are goning to breed with these chicks when older. I did not say the feathers will keep growing. I said to keep an eye on them if they keep growing....this is a sign of Feather Dusters. They do not exhibit Feather Dusters characteristics at this time. As I said I had a theory which was my own that it could be link to the 'long flight' gene. But it is just that a theory. Not fact. There was also in 1980's a tendency for some birds to be produced with broader secondary flights. Again this is sometimes seen on 'long flighted' individuals.

What type of hand rearing mix are you using?

GB what nubby says. As I said earlier I have picked up 4 birds with FM. I always had it around. It will always been around. Each year I used to get a couple of FM birds but nothing like when I started off in the first place. I am not a Doxy fan either. As nubbly said it is an antibiotic there fore not suitable for virus control. I do not reach for drugs for birds (or even myself) as a cure all. Prevention on a yearly basis is fine. Good feed, clean water and healthy living conditions go along way to a healthy vibrant flock.

Definately looks like the 'long flight' gene there. I would also say no 2 is affected be it not as much as 3 and 4. Note this down in your records. Any chicks produced from these parents in the past should also have it noted in their records so if it comes up in the future you know where it came from. Let us know if the feathers do indeed stop growing. Some years ago I was looking into the theory (my own) that Feather Dusters may some how come down through this 'long flight' gene. As I said just a theory. I had a Clearwing line that showed 'long flighted' characteristics but threw Feather Dusters. By the way they look like really nice birds.

Morgana made the trip in style. Karen did look rather cool driving up to the chapel. The service was beautiful and the dove release when great. It was a beautiful send off for a beautiful man.

DrNat I'm with you on this one. Eugenics was widely practiced right up and into the 20th century. Ptolomy family of Eygpt's most famous Pharoah was Cleopatra was married to her brother. There are many instances through the great families of Rome, Eygpyt, Greece and even England. The level of inbreeding within ruling dynasties was extremely high. Blood of a lesser human just could not be allowed to taint any royal bloodline. I firmly believe that the human species puts too much pressure both physically and monetary to keep what in animals terms would be considered 'culls'. If I bred a horse, dog or bird with a fault in which it required special care for it's entire life it would be humanly put down. Humans however are kept alive, at best in the home environment and at worst, in an institution. We would not breed from an animal showing a genetic predisposition for any physical or mental fault yet we let humans do it all the time. Even now with prenatal screens we can inform parents that a child may be defective but most will elect to have the child anyway. As for the french moult. As nubbly says. Murdoch isolated the virus back in the 1980's and did extensive research for a number of years. Breeders, myself included, donated hundreds of birds to Murdoch for the research. Since Murdoch's ground breaking work other information has come to light and the simple polyomyvirus as it was termed then is now know as a circovirus family of viruses. As technology improves I am sure more will be researched. In regards to myself and breeding FM. I do breed with them. In fact I recently got 4 FM birds off a breeder. Two are complety tail and flightless. The other two have crappy tails and limited flight feathers. They are still healthy birds and I will be breeding with them. The only ones I don't deal with are those that are almost naked. These don't recover and I either put them down or given them away as pets.

It's all to do with the science of optics.

Lacewings have pale violet cheek patches not white.

You can purchase split metal bands but most pet shops don't usually have them. You can get them through Lentra Direct or Chapman Rings.

Firstly you will find it difficult to find a picture of a Dilute Lacewing as unless bred with the correct bird it's phenotype would not be known. I can give you a rough idea what one would look like though. Take picture of a standard Lacewing and if you reduce the cheek patch by approx 1/4 intensity you'll have what your looking for. The cinnamon marking will be a pale grey or maybe almost non existent. A Lacewing is a Cinnamon Ino crossover and can mask most varities just as Ino does but not as effectively, You just got to look real close sometimes to see other mutations. Pairing to a Greywing will certainly let you know what you got. Secondly the pairing. Opaline Greywing Green x YF Lacewing Opaline Dilute. I will list a rough outcome. If you need a more precise one I need to know if Lt, Dk, Olive or Grey Green bird and the Lacewing being YF need to know if Sky, Cobalt, Mauve or Grey Blue. 100% Opalines 100% Greywings/Dilute 100% Split Lacewing cocks 50% YF 100% Green/Blue

Just to add a little more to the Lacewing history, since I get a mention. The Texas Clearbody side of the equation came from Peter Glassenbury (SA), that Clearbody was used in my Lacewing lines which orignated with E Kolfalvi (WA) who had some great Lacewings. Watch those pet shop quality birds you never know where they came from or what they are hiding.

Sorry to hear this very sad news. Condolences to Ken and family.

It is perfectly normal and is termed "Coprophagia". The practice in some animals is to passon benefical bacteria to young in order for them to process certain toxins in food. Koala is a good example here. Rabbits poop and then that dropping is consumed again in order to gain maximum nutrional bebefit from the food they eat. This is why they do so well in this land of ours. Some nutrients must go through the digstive tract at least twice in order for the correct assimilation. You could say the first pass through is the preparation phase and the second pass through is the absorbtion phase. Pretty much most animals on the planet do it, even humans. Usually though when a human is involved it is generally a child exploring it's bodily functions.

Kaz if you need a hand you only have to call and I'll be happy to help you and Ken best I can.