RIPbudgies

Heathrow, although I agree with you that there has been significant changes in a short time I don't really think that time period and quantity of change is really an issue. I think it really comes down to the changes themselves. Are they the right ones? Or are they what a small proportion of breeders want who are thinking about one show a year verses the furture of the hobby in general. As for the 3 birds benched. I can't agree with this, two are sufficient. If you add more birds you require more cages, staging etc. You will then need a spare so 4 birds from each class go then you need bigger holding cages and transport cages. Will people down the track then start to say 'the fourth bird should be shown'. I think the show is fine as it is. Maybe there needs to be more deliberation at selection time before the birds leave to represent their respective states. As for the ring issue date. I am not a fan of it. A bird will now be marked as being younger than it actually is. Example a bird bred 2009 can be rung with a 2010 ring. Seller disposes of the bird. Is this seller going to tell the buyer it was bred in 2009 and not 2010. There are enough breeders around to ensure that the D.O.B. will be declared as to what is on the ring as their memory will most likely fail them at this time. JeffL, not having a go re your hereditary statement, rather pointing out other causes. I am sure you just forgot to expand on your statement. Just attempting to stop the flow of misinformation before it has a chance to gather any momentum.

Congrats to Victoria, the winning state. Congrats to all those that had birds in the Nats regardless of were they finished up. There were some super exhibits. For me the stand outs were the winning Black Eye and Clearwing. But I do have a soft spot for them. I must say I really did like the winning Light Green. GB it can be stated that a ring code does make a bird a marked bird. This most definenately true, but, any judge who is fair and honest will not be swayed by the ring code. He/she is there to judge the budgie regardless of who owns it. Any judge who cannot do this does not to be judging at all! As for the three toes forward issue. I agree with Matt and Heathrow, the increase in perch size will not fix the three toe forward problem. In fact it may well cause it to be more noticeable espescially for birds who have this as an intermittent problem. I owned such a bird years ago. He was a good shower and did well but his toe was not always to the front. JeffL, to state that the three toes forward is hereditary only is a little short sighted. The bird I referred to above did not gain his through his parents nor did he past on the trait. The foot of the budgie is quite a complex mechanisim and is easily damaged in the wrong hands, especially at ringing time.

Black Bamboo, awesome stuff. Pretty sure it is safe but I personally wouldn't try growing anything in with budgies as they will just nip of any new growth as soon as it appears. Of course this usually applies if you have a lot in one place. If you have a couple you could give it a try. Maybe put mesh over it to give the plant a head start.

No leash AB. I was lucky my mum was very accomodating to my animals likes. I use to ride the donkey and the others followed. My cat was more like a dog than some dogs. I have always managed to have cats that were well behaved but I guess it comes down to training and discipline too as mine would ride in cars and walk on a leash if needed. The goat at that time was a Anglo Nubian and the sheep a cross breed. The Donkey was a feral from up north bought for $30. Dog was a mongrel breed. I need a farm too! I want to get into having animals around me again. Just can't do it on a small suburban block.

Well done to those who had birds in the show today. Good luck for those who have birds in tomorrow.

Splat there is a live feed page. http://www.nationalresults.net/display/NAT...ve+Results+Feed Go down and click on the + sign next to Picture Gallery and it will expand. Then Click on Winning Birds link.

You know what Ratzy I have never considered sheep dumb. It is there flocking behaviour (circling) which people find frustrating and then label as dumb. For Sheep it is a survival mechanism. When sheep circle it confuses the prey animal, as all they see is a wall of wool constantly moving in front of them. It makes it hard to pick out a single individual. If you really take notice of a flock of circling sheep you'll see they can move very quickly with minimal effort for a fairly long time, long enough sometimes for predators to give up. If you know how sheep think they are not too hard to work with at all. I too had pet sheep and goats and they are very smart and quite trainable. When I was a kid I use to go off on my long walks with my sheep, goat, dog and cat in tow. We certainly were sight and we got a lot of looks. Later on a Donkey got added and it just about stopped traffic!

That winning Black Eye is awesome!

Excellent news. Hope the little guy comes through all this. Just be careful with the calcium. You don't want to go over doing a good thing.

Beaks can be re-attached but it depends on the type and amount of damage, to be honest it is usually only attempted with endangered birds i.e. birds of prey, parrots, water fowl. It requires an operation of some length. When this happens in my aviary I simply put the bird down if the damage is too severe.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with that statement. I have held my budgies upside down on numerous occasions both young and old alike. Never lost one yet. Budgies by there own devices are found hanging upside down from branches when it suits them. Mother budgies feed the babies on their back for the first few days of life. As for spotting I stopped lucking years ago and cut the feathers instead. It leaves the mask with a fuller appearence and stops the problems with bad feather regrowth.

i got told it is ilegal to give rings to anyone and you can be kicked out of club if you do so and are found out ?????? Sorry GB. I should have been clearer. I wasn't talking about club rings. I was talking about those that are bought elsewhere.

AB I was thinking a little more about your quesrion. You have only a few budgies so buying from Champans' may not 'be viable for you as he preers a min of 50 rings. You would only need a few. There is another company called Lentra Direct and they can be found on Ebay. Anther thing to try is getting left over rings from fanciers. This can often be done at not cost. I used to do this when I have the dove release business, my business partner used to get his dad's left over racing pigeon rings.

Leg rings are used by some breeders to identify the birds. If you have a lot of one variety it is easy to get them mixed up. Show breeders do it because it is part of the rules. Back yard breeders do it cause some feel it gets them more money for the young. Unfortunately sometimes this is true and the birds are sold as club rung when they not always so. If you are breding lots of birds say 50 - 200 a year you need to have a unique identifier for each bird. Show breeders can elect through their clubs to have a code or not, doesn't really matter. If you do not wish to join a club you can purchase rings direct from the supplier. I buy my rings from Chapman Rings in NSW. He does a range of budgie and other rings in closed and open format. Here are their details: Unit 2/10 Hearne St Mortdale NSW 2223 Ph (02) 9533-3785

Could you please enlighten us with the book title. I may have this book in my extensive collection and if so will be able to reference it before making any further posts.

Sorry Elly but that article contains some information which way off the mark. The Dilute for example, saying colour is diluted by 5-95%. That's a *** of a range of dilution by any stretch of the imagination. A dilution for example of 5% would put the bird looking almost normal and darker than a Greywing! You provide a couple of pix also. The first one you mention in the article about the blue strip on the wing as though this is related to the subject matter. That blue strip you are talking about is called a 'wing mirror'and is a trait in Psittacine species carrying the Opaline locus. The blue in the center of the tail and spreading outwards is also and Opaline trait. You also mention in the article Continental Clearflights. I congratulate you on saying that they and Dutch Pieds are one and the same. What I do have a problem with is that you say and I quote "The clearflight (also known as continental clearflight or Dutch Dominant Pied) is a pied, and the flights and tail will be white. If the tail is not white, the bird is not a clearflight." This is so not right. These birds often have normal coloured tails. White or yellow tails is more likely to found in Aussie Dom Pieds. I think this article needs to be seriously looked at and revised. It is my understanding that fthis orum is trying to make sure the correct information is deseminated. Just recently there was a post on misinformation on web sites. Are we putting this forum into that category! Please don't take any of what I have said personally as it is not meant to be. I am doing my bit to help correct mistakes.

Me, too, hee hee! :star: AWWW come on you too. Your gonna have me blushing.

Brownwings have a grey-brown colour marking rather than brown. It is darker than a Cinnamon. They are born with RED eyes just like Inos but as they get older they do darken. They never develop a full iris ring but if you look you will see it is there just not white, more a brownish colour. My signature has a picture of a one day old Brownwing. Note the RED eye. Here are two other pics but they are not really big as these came from thumbnails of the orignal pics which have since been eaten by the cyber monster. This is of the orignal bird I obtained. A Brownwing Grey. This is a comparison picture so you can see the difference between the baby birds once they begin to feather up. The one to the left is the Brownwing and the other is a Cinnamon. Hope this helps you Ratzy. :rofl:

Very sad to hear you have lost a couple of those adorable puppies. You take care Kaz and if you need help just call okay.

I agree with what Dean_NZ has just said. I do commened you however on your observational skills. You saw a small difference and questioned its validity. Good on you!

Finnie, Stop mucking about and go here :question: http://www.shrinkpictures.com/create-avatar/ upload a photo and it will do all the hard work for you. :bow:

Karthik Said: Could some body tell me whether can we get Blue YF type 1 and type 2 (gloden face) offsprings by pairing normal blue (white face) with normal green (yellow face). Short answer is yes. A question in return. Are all the chicks produced Yellowfaces or only some? Can you post photos? Dave_McMinn Said: Number one, you need for the normal appearing green to be split to blue. If this bird is split to blue, then it is possible, otherwise there is no hope at all. The Green being split to Blue would not produce a Yellowface unless the Blue parent was a double factor Yellowface. Deb said: that is interesting info there, Dave. i paired a normal green female with a sky blue spangle male and got 2 yellow face type 2 babies.i have always wondered how it happened because i did not know the background of the parents.the next year i paired the same male with a different normal green female and i got 3 blue spangles and one yellow face type 2. Your pairings are interesting and the results are definitely capable of happening. Are the two hens by any chance sisters or closely related. By those results it would seem the hens are split Yellowface. With both pairings have 2 genes for blue and one each for yellowface and green there is a very good chance of producing blues and Yellowfaces. The pie said: The DF yellow face can only come from the YF1, which I think in pet birds isnt a common mutation. The Yellowface Mutant I is more common than your think pie. The pie said: But your green like everyone said-has a chance of being split blue and masking YF. Green, all 3 Yellowface mutants and blue are multiple allelic and as such cannot carry Green, Yellowface and Blue at the same time. The Green can be split for Yellowface or Blue. Elly said: First you have to understand that there are 2 base colors in a bird. A green bird is a bird that has a yellow base and then the blue coloring is mixed to make a GREEN bird. Sorry Elly but you obviously know nothing about how colour is produced in budgies. We are not dealing with paint here. The only pigments found in budgies are Melanin (black) and Pscittacine (yellow). It is the structure of the feather and the light that is subsequently refracted through the feather that give us a Green bird. Removal of the Pscittacine pigment results in a Blue bird. There is NO Green or Blue pigments in budgies! Elly said: If a green bird carries the Yellow Face Gene is under debate from what I read I have not read anything concrete (unless someone else has) that they carry the gene. This is not under debate at all. Yellowface genetics was worked out quite satisfactorily quite a few years ago by Professor Rowena Lamy, T.G. Taylor and Professor Warner. Ken Gray wrote a book about his most favourite variety the Rainbow, which of course includes quite a comprehensive information on Yellowfaces. Peter Bergman has produced the most recent article. Norm said: As Pie explained after my explanation [i had forgotten] that to get a White Faced Blue that is carrying the YF gene it has to be from two Yellow Faced Type 1 birds [which has a pure Blue breast, no bleed of Green] which as she explains isn’t a very common mutation. I seriously hate the term ‘bleed’ as it is not what really happens. Yellowface is a result of the removal of Pscittacine pigment. Depending on how much is removed as to which mutation you end up with. Also each Yellowface mutation is in single and double factor form. Norm said: If you mate two Yellow Faced Type 2 [the ones that have a bleed of Green in their Blue breast] you will get YF2 & white Faced Blues, only the YF2 will carry the gene. If you pair together 2 Yellowface Mutant II (you type 2) you will get Yellowface Mutant II in both single and double factor and a certain percentage of Blues. Norm said: Some time you could be lucky & pick a Normal Green [yellow faced] bird & look for some Blue bleed in the feathers especially near the legs or tail, you may be lucky that this bird is carrying the gene, but its not positive that this is the case. Sorry but you will not be able to tell if a Green is carrying Yellowface by looking at the feathers near the legs and tail. This area often shows a blue tinge and more so under certain types of lights. Dean_NZ said: In short, this cock is likely not the carrier or the cause of any yellow face. It is 99% likely both the hens he paired to were split for blue, and carried YF2 which would not have been detectable as they were green birds. Dean although I agree with you about the cock I feel you are incorrect about the hens. They cannot be Green and split for Blue and Yellowface at the same time. You even say this in your last paragraph. Dean_NZ said: White faced blues are either normals, or double factor yellow face type 1. You cannot mask YF2 or golden face in single or double factor in a blue bird. Correct. There is always the chance that the Green bird is not a Green bird. It may well be a single factor Goldenface. It is quite common for people to see these birds as Green and describe then as such. Hence why we like to see pix.

Woo Hoo Puppies!

Both greens are nice birds but it is the Dark Green that caught my eye. Looks like you have bred some really nice birds Dave.

As Kaz says. Plywood is fine also but give it a good sealer and a couple coats gloss paint to make it easier to clean. I find plywood lighter to use.