RIPbudgies

Jodie, in the pics you posted earlier in the thread you have two Recessive Pieds. I can see one is a baby but I cannot see the other too well to determine if it is an adult or not. Can you confirm it's age. As already mentioned the parents of the chick look like Light Greens. Violet Light Greens are darker so it does not look like you have and violet factor floating around. Is it possible that the Recessive Pied, if it is an adult, is the other parent as that bird is a Dark Green.

Your right, they are hatched with black eyes. I forgot to mention the fact that most are also Cinnamon as Cinnamon is used to reduce suffusion. Same goes for Black Eyes i.e Cinnamon Dilutes. See what happens when ya post on the fly.

:rofl: :rofl: Yup, know exactly where ya coming from there Nubbs!

I am completely with you on this Kaz. I always thought those snugglehuts and things were for things like rats, ferrets etc. Kaz are they marketed for birds?

You can't go past GB's actually experience. However as she says the end result from her experience is not necessarily goning to bring the same end result or side effects in another. I have have watched many docos on this treament, usually they are ones highlighting the wide spread use of this treatment in an age when any new technology and/or technique was grabbed with open arms and used extensively. Little research was carried out on effects of this 'shock treament' therapy on patients. Today it is less widely practiced and is seen as a last result to conventional drug treatment. The brain is a marvel of evolution and no two brains are alike. They are the organic super computor and it receives, interprets and sends signals via electrical impluses at extraordinary speeds. ECT interupts these signals but it cannot target specfic ones hence the side effects that people such as GB suffer. For me personally I would not consider it. People with depression need help, no doubt about it. I have suffered with it since childhood, luckily these days with all the reading and doco watching I do I have come to understand it more and have a great doctor to work with. Just a word of warning on drugs prescribed for depression. PROZAC (is a SRI-Seretonin re-uptake inhibitor drug)and its derivitives are often given to combat depression. What most doctors don't tell you and patience very rearely read the leaflet that accompanies the pills, is that these drugs do treat depression but not in all cases. In some cases they make the depression worse and in some cases cause phobic episodes. These Prozac family drugs work by increasing the level of Seretonin in the brain. What they do not do is distinghish between those people who have low Seretonin levels from those who produce too much but cannot metabolise it as quickly as it should be. Thankfully I fall into the former group so these drugs will work on me but I prefer not to take them unless really, really necessary. You can;t just stop taking these drugs either, you must come off them slowly. Maesie, is you friend taking any Prozac family drug? This could be causing more harm than good. You can google Prozac and confirm all what I have said above. You will also find articles on regarding current court cases in the USA to do with prople who are suddenly nice one day and then suddenly go on a killing spree due to phsycotic episodes from the use of these drugs. I am not trying to scare you maesie but rather to inform you and get you looking deeply into this subject of depression. I had a friend who was on a Prozac drug and it was not doing him any good at all. I convinced him to get off the stuff and deal with depression in others ways and he has since been a lot better. Here is a short list of stuff your friend can do. 1. Keep only positive people around you. If people are going to negative, try and laugh it off or walk away or ask them to leave as this is not what you want right now. 2. Support from friends and family at any time day and night. 3. Outings to favourite places. 4. If you love music (one of my personal favourites) put it on. Fill you day with it, Crank it up if you want. Find mediative music, for me it is stuff like Enigma, Sirroco, Enya, Film scores like Gladiator, darken the room, put mattress on the floor, take the phone off the hook, put the music on a chill out. You can go to therapist that deal with meditaive techniques. Ever laid on the lawn at night and just watched the universe go by? 5. If you love animals, hang with them as much as possible. Horses got me through a great deal as a child as my home life was pretty ****. They listen with 100% attention, don't judge you and love you unconditionally. 6. Diet. Believe it or not. No junk food or limit to say once a month as treat. A balanced diet is good for the body. Go back to basics. Grow you own veggies if you have room but if you are a bad gardener don't attempt this as dead plants will be seen as failure and therefore negative and will work against you. Keep the processes foods to an absolute minimum. 7. Lighting has an effect on people. These days we get way too much than we should putting our circadian rythem out of whack. There are many forms of lighting out there, maybe change some globes in the house, if possible. Reduce exposure. I turn off lights at night when watching TV as the reduced amount of light allows production of the chemical melatonin which will make you drowsy and help you fall asleep. Sleep is important, but not too much or too little, the average required by most people is around 7 hours per night. I hope I havn't dribbled on too much maesie. I hope you friend finds the help he/she requires. Last word of advice. Don't be afraid to change doctors.

Congrats SC.

I also attended the show with my first crop of youngsters. Been a good 7 years since I put a bird on the bench and stuffed up the cage sticker. I took all UBC's and forgot about it and put young bird class no's on. Gina comes over and asks "so did you put them all in UBC". Oh dear! So it is then decided to leave them as is cause it don't really matter anyhow and reclass the best one, an Opaline hen, in the UBC class. The judges bless em had realised some twit (namely myself) had obviously stuffed up and were prepared to reclass them but they weren't allowed too. Oh well. As I said didn't really matter as being UBC's they can't go any further than a win in their respective classes. Gina did have some strong competition and the Grey did aquite himself very well indeed. :rofl: Congrats to the G & G stud. There were some very nice rare varieties shown on the day with some super Lacewings and a very nice Recessive Pied. A good contingent of Clearwings and Fallows. It was a good show, lovely day out and some super eats provided for the hungry travellers.

Can you post pics of his cere. Also full body pics so we can see the state of his being. As for the mice getting into the cage. This could well be your problem. When mice move around they constantly leave a trail of pee loaded with hormones etc. This is a trail to which other mice follow. This chemical cocktail is left on everything including the seed in the feeder. The bird can accidentally digest this cocktail simply by climbing cage bars, wiping his beak on the perches, nibbling edges of food/water bowls. You really will need to keep mice out. Lay baits or traps. If you are squemish about trapping and disposing of live mice there many traps on the market today that can help you deal with that.

Yep, if you don't like the mutation you are breeding, then there is no fun in it and you most likely lose interest. I will see how I go and I will probably read this in 12 months time and have completely different mutations in my aviary and lots of grey greens. I didn't like show types 12 months ago and now my aviary is full of them. I didn't like greys 6 months ago and now I have plenty in my aviary. :rofl: ...but i did have a likeing for creaminos 2 years ago. One more quick question: A YF Dominant Pied (class 19), would you show him in the Dominant Pied Class because number is higher than YF class 13?(or do you show him in the NSV/AOV class?) :question: gb, that would be great. cool will bring when i see you next but i kinda lent it to rachelam for a look but only as i couldnt find the book i was going to lend her so i will do swap at meeting next week as i found book she really needs to be reading If your interest in buying the book I have a couple of copies still cheaper than what you'll get it for at a pet shop or bird dealer. I have both soft and hard copies.

probbly better for small breeder like me rip where would i find these ??? You can get the same nipple drinkers that nubbly has used. A breeder over here who I caught up with a few weeks ago uses them in soft drink bottles. He has done this for ages. There is a company called Bellsouth who deal in a lot of poultry equipment. Here is the link to there site. http://www.bellsouth.com.au/webframe.html Look under the equipment heading.

All I have to say about that is that most of the so called Dilutes that bred these so called Greywings always turned out to be badly marked Greywings and the Dilutes often turn out to be extremely suffused, lightly marked Greywings. There is failure brought on by the pigeon hole mentality of the show world to see any deviation from what is an acceptable version of the variety. Interpretation of the results of these pairings will always lie in the ability of the person who bred them to be able to distingish the difference between the different 'dilute' alleles in all there good and bad points. It is usually this variety recognition where these people tend to fail badly. It must be remembered that when these alleles are bred together there will be influences from each that will found in the other. Clearwing modified Dilutes is a prime example. Dilutes from pairings to Clearwings often show reduced wing marking yet still retain the same level of body colour. These birds are NOT 'clearwing dilutes' or 'dilute clearwings' as they have and still are labelled. It is the failure of the breeders lack of knowledge on the subject to ascertain a correct visual diagnosis. Coming back to Dilutes and Greywings, it is the same problem. Pairings producing both Dilutes and Greywings from the same nest. Often the breeder is unaware the Greywings are split for Dilute. Birds produced from pairings of both alleles will be influenced from one another. Clearwings also play a part here as this is employed by some to produce the Full-bodied Greywing which is a composite of the Greywing and Clearwing. Things can get quite complicated when this is done as over time any Clearwings that are produced WILL be heavily marked and many have been sold (and shown) as bad Greywings. If a pairing such as a Full-bodied Greywing is paired to a Dilute thinking that the Dilute is a Greywing the results will be Greywings and Clearwings only of which all will be split for Dilute. The Clearwings produced will be very heavy in the wing markings but will have that stronger body colour. The breeder cannot descern the difference keeps the bird and puts it back into the Greywings without records will just keep perpetuating the existance of these birds and at some point down the track another Clearwing will surface and again not be recognised for what it is. Many a new breeder has bought in Greywings that are split for Dilute and paired them together to produce Greywings and Dilutes in the same nest and then just considered the Dilutes are a lighter version and then sell them on or breed with them as light Greywings. Full-bodied Greywings, same problem, the beginner buys and then breeds a host of birds looking similar but different if you get my meaning. But being a beginner they can't tell the difference, get bad advice and subsequently breed or sell these birds on. Another factor which complicates this is that a great deal of the Greywings these days are grey factored birds and this makes it more difficult to ascertain depth of colour. I would bet my entire stud that this person you quote from Kaz has not bred Greywings from his/her Dilutes at all. What this 'top' judge is seeing is the modified versions I speak of above. Many times over the twenty years I was breeding I have had these birds presented before me with the same scenario only to find they were dirty Clearwings or heavily suffused Dilutes with dark wing markings.

You can also use the low flow nipple drinkers on soft drink bottles.

I am still trying to figure out how violet came into it. But that dilute hen produced a mauve baby once with a light green dom pied father. She could not produce a Mauve from the pairing to a Light Green. Could the Light Green Dom Pied have been a poorly coloured Dark Green perhaps.

yes i wasnt meaning you wont get anymore help i was just meaning you better taking them in person and talk and see ask questions to keep them healthy till vet no veggies just freash water and seed okay most important GB I am going to completely disagree with you on the no veggie thing. Quite often in order to get a bird to eat you have to feed it what ever it will eat. Sick birds can't always digest seed for one reason or another. Key factors to get birds through illness is quite, subdued lighting, warmth and both food and water given at body temperature. I had a hen here that got very sick indeed and almost died. She could not put weight on at all. Suspect was most likely Megabacteria. Now as everybody knows this makes the proventriculous almost useless at absorbing nutrients. To combat this problem I have always feed soaked warm seed (canary, white millet, wheat, oats, buckwheat) or what is on hand, along with copious quantities of Sow Thistle, Silverbeet or other leafy veggies but my favourite is Sow Thistle for its natural healing properties. Dry seed is always available and glucose (Spark if you have it) in the water which is warm. If you have crop feed the bird to get it over the worst with Baby Rice Cerel (easily digested, easy on the birds system). This hen today is fit and healthy and in fact raised chicks.

At one time here in WA there was a Beginner class.

Have you ever thought of writing a rare varieties book? Aside from yourself and Ken Yorke I don't know of anyone that knows much about some of the mentioned varieties. Actually Daryl I have but since I am the biggest procrastinator I have ever met and I am always finding other things to peek my curiosity and side-track me I don't know if I'll ever get round to it. When Judy told me she was writing this book I thought oh well, she beat me too it. But now I have bought and read this book it is lacking in some areas. Some of the pictures do not show the varieties very clearly and in one picture mis-named. The book makes the same mistake that a lot of people do when trying to show people what a mutation looks like, and that they show it in combination with another variety. Ken has a CD out called the "Budgerigar Bible" which has a lot of info and pics. I have suggested to him that he needs to update some of the pics as they are not very clear. I don't think photography is his strong point but when it comes to computer programming, I reckon he is god.

Will have to wait an see how he matures. Would be the first time a bird looked pretty ordinary and then turned out not half bad after the moult. That's why it pays to keep birds untill they have matured.

Yep old age is creeping up on me and I am going soft. Not too soft though. I named one budgie and yet this little fella still remains unnamed. Let me think.....still got Farscape on my mind......I'll call him Rigel.

It has been available from Andrew Isles for some time now at $15.00. The price of the book is high because of the pictorial content. The more pics a book has the higher the cost to produce. It may also depend on the publisher. I have met both authors of this book. Betty is still around in the budgie scene, Judy however, her where abouts these days seems to be a mystery. Exactly how much input each of these authors had I wouldn't have a clue. As Kaz said "Good info in there and the info gleaned from a whole lot of other breeders as well ( not necessarily with creditation )". I can tell you I was one of the people from information was gleaned without creditation. I introduced Judy to the Brownwings, Faded, Saddlebacks and Darkwings and in fact when I sold up she got a number of these mutations from me. The book does have some really good information in it.

Last week I had cause to bring a young budgie inside and hand feed him. Not one to stuff around to much I bought Baby Rice Ceral (excellent stuff) goes through crop needle real good, quick and easy to prepare and is easily digested. http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo40/RI...BC/DSC02299.jpg So now this little fella' thinks he part of the household. Runs up and down in the heat box when he sees me. So I get him out and when he is not inside my dressing gown or jumper he is sitting around somewhere on the computer table. http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo40/RI...BC/DSC02297.jpg He is nothing flash to look at, show bird wise, I mean look at that head feather, or not! His only other sibling (raised by Black Eye Parents) is not much better, in fact maybe a tad worse. They do however have one thing in their favour that may save them. Their markings! http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo40/RI...BC/DSC02300.jpg The sibling has got better markings than this guy and is a Light Green possibly split YF M1. Parents of these guys was a Spangle(df) Grey(sf) Light or Dark Green cock and a YF(sf) M1 Sky hen http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo40/RI...BC/DSC01515.jpg http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo40/RI.../01ID99-107.jpg Where is he now? I hear you ask. Inside my dressing gown cuddled up to my moo cow pj's. Yes I am still in my jamys!

Daryl, got a nest (9) full of Grey Greens 3 of which are Cinnamon. Dad is Recessive Pied Dark Green and mum a Cinnamon Grey and as I have produced Cinnamons I now know the cock is split for Cinnamon and the hen is a double factor Grey. All the Cinnamons in the nest are better than the non Cinnamons. Linda, I was thinking more the red/orange hair thing as Cinnamon is probably as close as we can get to the red hair in humans. Oh, and Jewel was stuck in mys head as I have been watching the full series again. I will try and get some other picture up on this thread later.

The one thing I have never really done is name any of my show budgies. Well this little hen has such a good nature, she pops out of the baby cage onto my finger every day. While I am feeding I generally just let her fly around the bird room. She is a Cinnamon Grey Green / Recessive Pied. Her name is JEWEL. I named her after a character in the TV show "Farscape"."

Lettuce will not kill your birds. Maybe that person running your local pet store should find another line of work. With a statement like that I would question anything she says. If the kids enjoy hand feeding the birds just switch them to using Silver beet etc. It will be better for them for the long term.

Personally I don't bother with any lettuce at all. The leaves are 80% water leaving 20% any good for anything. If you want to feed leafy vegetables go with Silverbeet, English Spinch and Asian Vegies (Bok Choy, Tatsoi etc). You can't go past the Chick Weed and Sow Thistle which I grow in abundance in my vegie patch.

Budge is not a GF. He is a standard Opaline. The yellow through the top part of the chest is often found in Opalines. Colour of Opalines is reduced about 10% from the Normal colour but to most people they appear the same as Normals. Put them side by side with a normal of the same colour and you'll see the difference. Rain does look like a GF from that picture. Maybe post bigger pics or put link to larger ones.