Jen144

Okay age..both are over 1 year old. Well the female was in breeding condition. Set up is most likely the problem. If the male was infertile doesn't he get a brown cere? What about a female?

It may just be my computer but for some reason the link to ravengypsy's site doesn't work..(and hasn't for quite a while) does it work for anyone else? I'd really like to see the differences between these mutations..How would you tell yf1 from double factor yf2, and from gf 1 and 2?

Yes I noticed that too..you beat me to making a thread about it. I'd be interested to see the answer.. Personally I thought goldenface was a pretty much a brighter yf, but a different mutation..that's all I know.

Okay good. I know it's a bad thing when they are old for that too happen though, isn't it? I heard it can mean they have cancer or are just getting old?

Hormone imbalance will do that Ah okay. But he'll be fine now, right, as it was about 2 years ago and his cere is perfectly normal now? What could have caused a hormone imbalance?

Okay. But one more thing..why did his cere go like a female's when he was young?

Ahh okay thank you Nev.

Thanks. He is a Cobalt YF2 Recessive Pied then?

I'm pretty sure he is. He's a Recessive Pied, and his cere is (and always has been as far as I know) pink with a tinsy bit of blue around the nostrils..Which is definetly male, seeing as females would get a brown cere, right? Edit: Actually I think I remember the owner telling me once they were very confused as to his sex when he was young as his cere went from white and blue to pink and back again, and now it's pink....but it changed to blue and white a very long time ago, as I said, when they first got him..about 2 years ago. White on a cere is an indicator of hen. If a recessive pied then it should never have had blue on its cere at any time. We need pictures...I believe both the mutation and sex of the bird to be in question. One possibility without seeing it is a DF dom pied sometimes has a two colour cere, also can look recessive. Post clear cere pictures and pictures of the bird front and back and we will try to help. Okay here's some pics of him. By the way, he has no iris rings, and his eyes are a dark red, almost like an albino. As far as I know, he is a YF2 Cobalt Recessive Pied, probably with violet in him too. I don't have a picture of his whole back, but it's a creamy white with yellow patches..no markings except one little wing marking on each 'shoulder'.

Where I have underlined Elly made a mistake. She was meant to write White face. A yellow face type 1 bird is a bird with yellow only on the mask. A yellowface type 2 bird is a bird where the yellow bleeds into the body colour. The genes work slightly differently. In Yellowface type 1. A bird carrying no YF1 genes has a white face A bird carrying 1 YF1 gene has a yellow face A bird carrying 2 YF! genes has a white face In Yellowface type 2 A bird carrying no YF2 genes has a white face A bird carrying 1 YF2 gene has a yellow face A bird carrying 2 YF2 genes has a yellow face (its yellow on its body is more mottled) This is the general consensus. I am still finding the details to be a bit fuzzy. Side note: Spangle is not the typical Somatic Dominant. I believe that it is actually codominant, which works a different way. A dominant gene should phenotypically present the same when an animal has 2 genes as when it has one. Spangle does not adhere to this rule and it, along with dark factors, grey factors and violet factors all work codominantly. Alright, that made a lot more sense. Thanks. The only way you can really tell if they are double factor yf2's is if they bred to a normal and produce 100% yf2's, and same with df yf1's (that look like whitefaces) right?

Ah that did make a bit more sense. But, I still don't understand this...what is yf1.. that a yf1 when bred to a normal can get yf1's, single factor and double factor, and/or normals? I mean, it's not recessive but it doesn't sound like dominant.. it's just weird..Did that made any sense? There are different genes that when doubled will erase the coloring/marking example the Spangle Gene when a bird is carrying 1 Spangle gene then you see the Spangle Markings but if the bird is carrying 2 Spangle genes then the bird will be all white or all yellow with iris rings and a blue cere this is called a Double Factor Spangle. The same exact thing happens with the Yellowface Type 1 gene, when the bird is carrying 1 YF1 gene the bird will display on a blue bird a yellow face only but if the bird is carrying 2 YF 1 genes then the yellow is erased from the face and you will have a blue bird with a yellow face. Greens can also carry the Yellow Face Gene but because they have a base color of yellow and not white it is almost impossible to tell if they are carrying the gene. I hope that makes more sense... note this does NOT apply to the YF2 gene you can have a single or double but it won't have a white face. I understand all of that, except for the parts I put in bold..You're saying a sf yf1 will be a blue bird with a yellow face, but a df yf1 is a blue bird with a yellow face? But in a previous thread when I asked about the yf2 gene, everyone said df yf2 is a blue bird with a white face.... Now I am more confused...lol

I'm pretty sure he is. He's a Recessive Pied, and his cere is (and always has been as far as I know) pink with a tinsy bit of blue around the nostrils..Which is definetly male, seeing as females would get a brown cere, right? Edit: Actually I think I remember the owner telling me once they were very confused as to his sex when he was young as his cere went from white and blue to pink and back again, and now it's pink....but it changed to blue and white a very long time ago, as I said, when they first got him..about 2 years ago.

Okay I do understand dominant and recessive genes pretty much, it's just that the way you's described yf1 doesn't fit with either of those?

Ah that did make a bit more sense. But, I still don't understand this...what is yf1.. that a yf1 when bred to a normal can get yf1's, single factor and double factor, and/or normals? I mean, it's not recessive but it doesn't sound like dominant.. it's just weird..Did that made any sense?

Um okay..now I am well and truly confused..how exactly does yf1 work??

Okay. But a yf1 to a normal would have %50 normals and %50 yf1's, right?

Alright thanks. I'm thinking it's the cage setup etc that is why they won't breed, as different females have refused to breed with that one male, and when the female is paired up with a different male in a different setup, she did seem to want to breed. I was worried something might have been wrong with the male and that is why the female wouldn't breed with him..is that possible?

I'm just curious, what would you get from a pairing of a yf1 and yf2? Because they are both dominant, you'd get some yf1's, yf2's, and no normals? Would any be both, yellowface1 and 2?

A friend has been trying to breed her 2 and 1/2 year male for quite a long time. The male is quite flirty, feeding the female, and trying to mate with her. She readily preens and feeds him, but refuses to mate with him. She is around 1 year, possibly older..the owner has tried other females with the male, and all of them refuse to mate with him. The only reason I can think of as to why they do this is becuase perhaps the females don't think the nestbox is good enough? It is a small-ish one...could this be why the females refuse to mate with him? What other reasons could there be?

Not at the moment, I'll try to get one later. My camera is not that good, so I might not be able to though.

I suppose that could be it. But, I have a yf2 in my aviary, and he has very white iris rings..and he's only 4-5 months.

Okay then, so the gold colour just means she's not old enough to breed? It's just that I've never heard of that before so I was wondering why she's like that. I've heard about the grey iris rings, white, or none, but not gold. Could the fact she is a yellowface1 have something to do with that? (just a thought)

She looked about 4-6 months, maybe older, when she was bought, and now she's been owned for another 6 so she is around a year, approximately. She does have very easy to see iris rings..they are like an adult's ones, except gold coloured, they are quite bright. So you think this is just because she may be younger than 1 year, or not very much older than that?

Yes. She is most definitely over 6 months, (as this is as long as she's been owned so far) and had done her first moult before she was even bought..

I'm looking after her for a friend at the moment, she got dropped off today..In person, she definetly looks like a DF Violet YF1. One strange thing, her iris rings are not white, but a dark gold colour, and she's like 1 and 1/2 years old. Why is this?