Angelic Vampyre

Nope counting from the date she started to sit. Fl;ame started sitting/incubating after the third egg was layed so was counting from then. But I know my maths is most likey out so it just the waiting game now

okay so I come back from being away and I hoped that I would have a bub or two but no, none. In fact I am missing an egg! I can't find any sign of it, so going to have to ask my other half when he gets home cause storm might have thrown it out and it broke and he cleaned it up but I checked the bin and everything. I had the hatch date for Monday and Tuesday and it's wednesday and nothing. I am sure I candled them right but maybe I didn't, now I am worried and stressed and feeling ill.

Blame me why don't you! :hap: Yes I got two new ones as he said a big grey green and a much smaller and birghter green opaline. And can I remind you that it was you that told me I had a cock shortage! (and this is the only place I would get away with saying that ) Just got back from SA and the grey green looks a little unwell so going to have to treat him with kid gloves will post pictures when i can.

Thanks for the info guys, she seems to be harding up and more bulk in her droppings rather then just all white. It's still white but going to leave her for another week and re asses the situation. She does get fresh leaves and loves them now she has worked out she can eat them!

LOL Sailorwolf is one of out vet types! But I think you can overdose a bird on Calcium but I think it would be hard

Thanks Kaz, Will look at making some changes, yes I was a little light on with the breeding ages but it's one of those that I am never sure on so stayed on the safe side. As for costing I put this together giving the cheapest to the most expensive that I had heard of cost but I can see now how it could be scary to some. Will give the costings another look at and may set up the section in a better format. Thanks for the feedback guys.

Thanks Kaz, also which points do you disagree with? I would like to know as I am learning and as I said that it was based off research so would like to make sure I keep learning and any input I can get from other people is great.

Elly I completely agree with you and am glad you added your voice to the post, all the different opinions and views help make this a better post with more understanding. I wish we had more shelters for our birds, time and time again I hear of people letting their Budgie go free as they believe that the bird is a native and can survive in the wild Least in places like the US because of your colder climite in winter some people will think twice before taking this option and take their bird to a shelter. Ikon - I cross posted this from another forum and it was aimed at people over there. Maybe I should not have posted it here but I did. As for the figures I stand by them. I know how much I spend on seed mix a month, I also know how much a bird costs. Yes a novice might not spend up to $1,500 on a bird but then again if they have the money they might want to. Sorry if this post upset you but it was desiged to get people to stop and think before rushing head first into breeding, if they read this and come back and say "Really it's that much work? I think I might think about this instead of doing it right now" then that is what I wanted. I am not trying to put people off breeding al together I just want them to take a step back and really think about this. For those who know the other forums (looks at the pie) then you will know why I did this. I just figured that I did the work so I might as well cross post. Sorry if it offended you.

Yeah Norm but there is a big difference between unsure about one and attempting to work it out and only have a strike rate on 4 in 20!

I just find it strange that people who put alot of time and money into the setups and then miss something as simple as what sex the birds are! I know with some of mine if in doubt i would just post here and ask or if they failed last season split the pair up but I guess not everyone thinks the way i do

Elly I considered putt the pet food angle in there but I have been shot down for that one once before, so I understaded the over population rather then over stated it. Also in Australia not alot of shelters take birds in so you can't go to a shelter and adopt one. if you want a budgie in victoria your options are a breeder or a petstore and as this was aimed at a person in my state I did not mention shelters but it is worth a mention for those outside of Australia! thanks

My guys where never into oats untill i put them in a seperate dish by them selves now they are the first thing to go from the seed mix!

* I know Kaz did a similar topic but i did this for another board and figured I would cross post to here, feel free to add anything I missed and make sure you go to the toliet first it's sort of ling sorry* This is in no way a complete list and I am happy for people to add to it, just something I put together to convince someone else not to start breeding budgies. Disclaimer - it’s not that I want to put people off more that I want to let people know that breeding is not a walk in the park. Disclaimer 2 – I am not an expert all the information is from talking to people, research on the net and some very helpful Budgie forums. So you want to breed, you have a nice pair of pet type Budgies and you think they would make nice babies? So you need to know a few things. 1 – Breeding budgies is not simple, - in fact it is hard and if you are at all attached to your birds then you are running the risk of losing one if not both of them 2- Breeding Budgies is not cheap - If possible you should always have at least 2 - 3 pairs down to breed at the same time so you may need to expand your Budgie family to at least 4 - 6 adults 3 – Breeding Budgies takes time - if you don’t have a couple of hours to spare at the end of everyday and at least an hour at the start then walk away now 4 – Breeding Budgies is heart breaking - So you are going to have cute little babies right? Yes IF the hatch and IF they survive and the parents survive, how are you going to handle a chick or your beloved pet dead in the breeding box? You know you will one day end up faced with that reality. So now I have my four major points out of the way, you still think you want to breed Budgies? So now you need to think are your Budgies up to breeding? Recommended ages for a breeding hen is 18month to 3 years (maybe 4 IF she is a really good hen and is in great condition) for a cock is 18 month to 4 years (again if he is filling eggs and it’s not taking to much out of him them you might be able to push it out another year). Anyone who says but they are having sex at 6 months of age so they can have chicks is a fool, a 12 year old child can have sex and get pregnant but that does not mean she is emotionally ready to have a child, heck a 5 year old is the youngest female to have a baby but should she have been put in that situation? Grr at you people. Hens need time to mature and be physically and emotional ready to raise young. If you don’t know the ages of your birds then don’t breed from them, nothing is worse then seeing a hen kill herself trying to have an egg or working herself to death feeding babies. Pairing your birds So you have a cock and a hen, does not mean they are going to mate! Normally you put them down in idea conditions and within 20 MAX you will have an egg, if no egg then it looks like your breeding career is going to stop here sorry. Other things to think about is what do you want to breed? You have two pretty ino’s (all yellow or all white) you want more pretty ino’s so you put them together right? Wrong this produces weak and small birds, same with two crested Budgies. A crested needs to be breed a “crest breed”. Do you want to breed pretty colors or are you trying to put size on the bird? Give it a bigger mask? Improve its head size? There are a lot of options and a lot of bad birds out there so don’t, please don’t, breed issues into birds just so you can breed birds! Birds with Issues – so you have a nice budgie but he/she does (insert behavioral issue) chances are that they will pass this to the chick. If your bird feather plucks then they will most likely feather pluck the chicks who will in turn feather pluck themselves and then they will feather pluck their babies. Now I am not saying this is a 100% guarantee but really do you want to risk it? If your bird has a medical condition or a behavioral issue then talk to your avian vet and get their opinion on breeding the bird. An example of this is I have a Budgie who has in the past had issues with nose bleeding or cere bleeding. After a few rounds at the vet it was discovered to be a malnutrition issue (thanks to the pervious owner) with an altered diet she has been nose bleeding free for over a year! Before she went down to breed I got a full vet check to ensure that she would be physically ready to be a mum and so far I could not ask for a better hen, however if any of her chicks ever show signs of the same issue I will not breed from her again. Budgie explosion – so you put your three pairs down to breed, go you! So now you have them all on eggs lets do the math’s, a standard clutch is around 6 eggs (this do vary a lot) if all the eggs hatch then you have 18 brand new baby budgies on your hands! What are you going to do with them? Do you have a cage large enough to house 18 budgies until they are old enough to sell? Where are you going to sell them? What is your back up plan if you can’t? Family and friends will only take so many and then what? If you sell them to a pet store you might only make $3 - $7 per bird if you sell them privately you can make between $15 - $40 depending on how tame they are. If you want to sell hand tame pets, you have to remember that you need to spend at least 20 – 30 mins per bird per day to get them really tame. What if you don’t sell them? What if you have an outbreak and you need to put them all on meds? $40 a bird can get expensive if you have to take them all to the vets. Now granted in most cases they will not all hatch but Murphy’s law states you expect only half to and they all will! Women’s issues – ever seen an egg bound hen? If not google it, a short and painful way to died! Calcium, calcium, calcium and more calcium. There are so many things that can and will go wrong with your hen while breeding. If you lose a hen then what are you going to do with the chicks? Breeding is a very stressful time in a Budgies life and the hens need just a little more care. They also need to be left alone and let nature takes it course. For all the females out there if you where giving birth and every 5 mins someone came in, spread your legs had a look then walked out you would feel annoyed and upset right? Well this is what it is like for a budgie who gets disrupted off the nest all day long, leave her alone! 9 times out of 10 she knows what she is doing! So after reading all of that you still want to breed right? Well I decided this and I am now $5000 poorer for deciding that before I even add the birds or the feed into it. Yes my aviary and my set up cost me around $5000. Add to that the $100 a month I spend on seed, $130 on things to add to the water ever few months, the birds, the $1000 in vet bills over the past 4 months as I ended up with some sick birds…. Just wait why did I want to breed again, should have turned the garage into a gym! Honesty you are not going to get rich by doing this, and if you join a club then there is joining fees and ring fees and showing cages, the list keeps going…….. okay then lets look at a few things you will need (this is for cabinet breeding as I don’t like colony breeding but I am not going to argue about that here) The following list is partly off what I have paid or do pay for my 30odd birds (I use about 30Kg of seed every two months) For breeding you need, - 2 – 3 breeding cage, ($30 - $80) - 2 - 3 breeding box, ($6 - $20) - An aviary depending on how many you are going to have ($100 - $2,500) - Secondary cages in case one or both of the parents attack the chicks, ($30 - $80) - Feed which is of good quality, ($50 - $100 a month) - Hulled oats (is one of the easiest grains to be turned into crop milk by the hen), ($10 a month) - Water, (you pay for it in your water bill) - Cuttle fish, ($5 - $20) (please note just cause you give them this does not mean they eat it and don’t need extra calcium supplements) - Supplies to crop feed as you may need to do this, (my set cost me $200) - A lesson with a vet on how to crop feed ($40 - $90) - A crop milk recipe (free thanks to libby from the BBC) - Fresh Veggies ($10 - $50 a week) - A heat lamp (approx $75) - A cage for the chicks once they have fledged ($30 - $200) - Breeding aid (optional but recommended) (approx $40 I think) - Calcium to add to the water (Cal vet recommended brand) (approx $30) - Money for extra vet bills (I try and keep a $500 float) - And most importantly a Hen and a Cock (trust me I have seen people try to breed with two cocks or two hens!) ($15 - $1,500 a bird) So that is my list and my best attempt at getting you to NOT breed. If you still want to then go for it, but remember I am sure this list is not complete and others will add to it. Please breed if you want, but breed because you know what you are doing not because you want to, just cause you can does not mean that you should. Also think about what is best for your bird, please please think about that. Breeding Budgies should not be a selfish thing but a wonderful thing for you and your birds!

My only thing is that another breeder warned me off buying from him so might have to talk to breeder A and find out what is wring with his birds. If nothing other then he can't tell a cock from a hen I might have to go on a shopping spree!

Nah I think MB will be on holidays but it looks like my BF can't get time off work so he might just move in for a few days.

I guess some people are not prepared to take advise or research enough to get it right. Just cause you can do it does not mean you should do it!

So I found out that my Nanna just died, we knew it was coming but still sitting here numb. Like everything in my family i have to be the strong one and am doing all the organisation blah blah blah. My issue is that the funneral is going to be in SA most likely the middle of next week. Now I thought I was covered and ask brandon to help me out but his family is going away for a week on Monday. I have three breeding pairs down some in Quarrantine and the guys inside. What do I do, anyone know of a good pet miding service? just need to work out my options. Not to mention that the Dogs are going to have to stay here, maybe I should loo into putting them in a kennel.

He had some really nice be grey ones might see if they are none breeders and take them a avairy fills!

I know what I am doing with the normals but the inos and some of the pieds and I start to second guess myslef but the normals come on! Also argue with a Judge about hens vs cock. If I went to a club meet and they told me that the Hen was a Cock not a Hen I would say fine... the only time I would argue with them is if I physically saw her lay and egg! I know he was a bit of a know it all anyway but then this was just the icing on the cake!

So I duck out at lunch to go see this breeder in St Kilda and have a look at his set up. So i am having a chat to him and I notice two normal/sky blue boys in a breeding cage so I start really looking at his birds he has mostly normals (so sexing them is a little easier the some of the other mutations) and he is telling me how he loves to breed but really only on average about 4 cages get eggs out of his bank of 20 odd. So I am looking and looking and I realise that he has a bunch of pairs that are same sexed I point this out to him and say "I might be wrong but they are both cocks right" he looks and tells me not to be silly, he has been breeding for 5 years now he knows a cock from a hen.... So I smile, we finish up, he tries to sell me this hen (it was a cock I am sure of it) I decline and then go back to work. I e-mail another breeder I know from my club about some of his birds as I know someone who is looking for one and I ask does he know breeder X, he calls me to make sure that I had not bought any birds from the breeder and laughs as he tells me about the breeder arguing with Judges over the sex of his birds! So just cause you breed does not me you know everything! Just thought you might like a laugh for the day!

You need to make me one of those! Well I suck at all things creative however I do websites www.victimeffect.com not one of my better ones but the only one that is running at the moment. I use to do cross stitch and I bake and do what is called "Home Made Style" Basically someone asks me to make a cake for them and to make it look like they did it so I make is badly (well it taste nice but just does not look as good)

Keep it simple and watch the size. Also look for a tattoo artist that is known her their detail work. I want to get "AV" inside Harley's wings on my foot but the detail is the issue with Budgie tattoos. Watch it because I have seen some shocking one out there of Budgies. This is the best one I have seen but I still don't like it! http://www.flickr.com/photos/kaptenhanna/623710188/

Yes that is why i gave them my fake mobile and spam e-mail address I can't believe that they sent someone around to the house that is just rude and they got my postal address from looking up my energy bill! GRRRRRR

Very nice bird reminds me of Blue my guy. I agree very young.

I am a bit the same in some ways. If this issues had happened in the avairy and I only noticed it in the breeding cages then I would have just kept and eye on her and her breeding partner and let it be. However she was the first of my birds to get sick and the rest of the birds got sick from her we believe so she got split out and the others got better she got better but this issue did not clear up. As bad as this sounds if she had been about three other of my birds I may not have gone to the lengths that I have gone to but something about her makes me want to save her if that makes sense. I love her colours and there is just something about her. I know that I had gotten to the point where I said to the vet I am not sure how much more money I can spend on her and he is just as fustrated as me so has been using her to teach the vet nurses how to handle a bird and also the few vet students that come in have been doing some of the tests under him so the last few rounds have been free.