The Great Yf Symposium

[nubbly5 0]

Have a few computer problems at the moment so a bit stop/start.

The other noteworthy detail on these critters is that the mottle is not confined to the chest. The wings and the head bars are mottled also from white, through pale yellow to golden.

Will attach picture when the 'puter comes back from hospital or take another.

Cheers

Steve

 

 

Hmm sounds interesting and would love to see pics and parent pics!

 

As to intensity of yellow, there is a long held belief that adding dark factor increases the intensity of yellow ground colour in birds but I have many light greens (no dark factor) with really nice intense yellow ground colour so I think you can affect yellow intensity by selection just as you can affect other traits. I have combined these particularly with my Lacewing line to produce nice golden coloured birds.

 

Golden faces, as explained in the thread, are caused by a gene that REMOVES yellow so infact a normal green with a golden face gene has LESS yellow present than if it did not have the golden face gene. Try not to think about yf's as blue birds with yellow added, think of them as greens with yellow removed. So, as explained originally, golden faces have the least amount of yellow removed followed by YF M2 and then YF M1. If you think about them as blues with yellow added, then you get caught up with questions about golden faces have more yellow than yf's and blues but what you really need to think about is golden faces having less yellow intensity than normal greens. Clear as mud?

[JimmyBanks 0]

Mud??? Please... Mud is transparent compared to this nah just kidding I get it.

[Daryl 0]

Next is the YF Mutant 2. Below are several photos of SF YF M2's. This gene restricts yellow pigment more than the SF GF, but possibly less than the DF GF and shows a distinct lighter yellow suffusion throught the body colour but with a lighter yellow face colour than the GF. You can see in following photographs that the blue body colour is turned a distinctive aqua colour due to the suffusion of yellow through the body colour. In the case of the cinnamon opaline grey it is easy to see the yellow suffusion through the body colour.

 

 

 

The next photo we decided was most likely a DF YF M2 due to the almost total restriction of yellow suffusion in the body colour, combined with the softer yellow face colouring and the almost completely white wing markings, showing little of the yellow pigment through the rest of the body. The YF M2 in the double factor form further reduces yellow colouration, leaving the lighter yellow colour almost soley on the face area.

 

Lastly is the YF M1. This gene reduces yellow more strongly than the other 2 YF genes. In the single factor this bird looks just about identical to the DF YF M2, with yellow restricted to the face area and little suffusion of the yellow colour into the body colour.

 

In light of the discussion regarding the 2010 National winning YF in the Wood and Drew auction thread I thought I would reopen this thread for further discussion. I agree with everything written in the OP by nubbly except that I'm having difficulty being convinced of the existence of a M1 and M2 as two separate mutations. And let me state at the beginning I'm totally open to being convinced but remain notso at this point. At the moment I'm of the opinion that the apparent variation in M1 and M2 may be attributed to natural variation in the variety.

 

When the original "English YF's" were imported in 1990 they were also called "Lemonface" due to the reduction in yellow pigment intensity in the mask when compared with our Aussie GF's. I recall that even at this early point there was variation in the variety. As stated elsewhere in this thread we can get variation in the intensity of yellow in the face of the bird, even in green series. We can also get variation in the amount of yellow spillage throughout the body. For me M1 and M2 are so close that these variations in intensity and spillage can be used to explain the differences we see.

 

The first 3 birds above have been referred to as SF M2 with the 4th bird being labelled DF M2. The difference I see in the 4th bird is that;

1. the yellow is less intense,

2. the bird is also dark factor and therefore better hiding the suffusion through the body, and

3. the bird appears quite young and possibly not fully moulted out (especially in the wing area) thereby appearing to have less suffusion.

Therefore, could this 4th bird be the same as the ones above?

 

The first of the 2 YF M1 pieds is also quite young and appears to me to be in baby feather so it would show little wing suffusion at this age whereas the second one shows a lack of intensity in the face but still has a degree of yellow in the flights. The final YF Opaline is hard to pick from the picture but appears to be of deeper yellow and not much suffusion (ie M2 mask and M1 suffusion).

 

Now for me I can see them all being classified as the old, imported English YF (which we probably call M1). I know in my case I've bred a DF YF M1 (ie with a white face) and both parents, especially the mother, would be called M2 by the photos and description above, but the DF son should have had some yellow in the face if this was the case.

 

So, is it possible that M1 and M2 can be the same mutation but exhibiting natural variation? Or have I just missed something vital in the explanation? I'm sure RIP will set me straight if I've just wasted 15 mins writing this

[lealotta 0]

In light of the discussion regarding the 2010 National winning YF in the Wood and Drew auction thread I thought I would reopen this thread for further discussion. I agree with everything written in the OP by nubbly except that I'm having difficulty being convinced of the existence of a M1 and M2 as two separate mutations. And let me state at the beginning I'm totally open to being convinced but remain notso at this point. At the moment I'm of the opinion that the apparent variation in M1 and M2 may be attributed to natural variation in the variety.

 

When the original "English YF's" were imported in 1990 they were also called "Lemonface" due to the reduction in yellow pigment intensity in the mask when compared with our Aussie GF's. I recall that even at this early point there was variation in the variety. As stated elsewhere in this thread we can get variation in the intensity of yellow in the face of the bird, even in green series. We can also get variation in the amount of yellow spillage throughout the body. For me M1 and M2 are so close that these variations in intensity and spillage can be used to explain the differences we see.

 

The first 3 birds above have been referred to as SF M2 with the 4th bird being labelled DF M2. The difference I see in the 4th bird is that;

1. the yellow is less intense,

2. the bird is also dark factor and therefore better hiding the suffusion through the body, and

3. the bird appears quite young and possibly not fully moulted out (especially in the wing area) thereby appearing to have less suffusion.

Therefore, could this 4th bird be the same as the ones above?

 

The first of the 2 YF M1 pieds is also quite young and appears to me to be in baby feather so it would show little wing suffusion at this age whereas the second one shows a lack of intensity in the face but still has a degree of yellow in the flights. The final YF Opaline is hard to pick from the picture but appears to be of deeper yellow and not much suffusion (ie M2 mask and M1 suffusion).

 

Now for me I can see them all being classified as the old, imported English YF (which we probably call M1). I know in my case I've bred a DF YF M1 (ie with a white face) and both parents, especially the mother, would be called M2 by the photos and description above, but the DF son should have had some yellow in the face if this was the case.

 

So, is it possible that M1 and M2 can be the same mutation but exhibiting natural variation? Or have I just missed something vital in the explanation? I'm sure RIP will set me straight if I've just wasted 15 mins writing this

 

Hi Darryl,

I read this topic lots of times and it was me starting the discussion regarding the National winning YF .

I want to breed Yellowfaces for show and I am trying to find out what types of Yellowfaces I've got....so I can pair them up correctly.

I believe M1 and M2 are different mutations but that it can be hard to tell what they are without any breeding records....I've got a YF Greywing and YF Albinos and this makes it even harder to tell as these mutations seem to lighten the yellow intensity compared to my YF Cobalt - or maybe the cobalt is a Goldenface after all .

All very confusing for a beginner. I think I will have to do some test breeding.

Edited June 23, 2010 by lealotta

[nubbly5 0]

Hi Daryl

 

I think ANOTHER confusing issue is that M1 and M2 exist within the same show stock and are knowingly or unknowingly often mixed and combined. I believe that the 2 different mutations were idenitifed as being different due to their differences in yellow reduction. M2 DF only restricts yellow without fully removing it. M1 DF completely removes yellow.

 

There is a very interesting section in "Colour Mutations & Genetics in Parrots" Dr Terry Martin, that's worth a read on this topic. In fact start at the start in regards to Parblue genetics and then finish it off with the section on the b-locus pg 241 for some further insight. He gives great detail about the different mutations of parblue and blue (not just budgerigars) and is worth a read (and a re-read I found) for anyone wanting to try and get their head further around yellowface genetics.

Edited June 24, 2010 by nubbly5

[lealotta 0]

There is a very interesting section in "Colour Mutations & Genetics in Parrots" Dr Terry Martin, that's worth a read on this topic. In fact start at the start in regards to Parblue genetics and then finish it off with the section on the b-locus pg 241 for some further insight. He gives great detail about the different mutations of parblue and blue (not just budgerigars) and is worth a read (and a re-read I found) for anyone wanting to try and get their head further around yellowface genetics.

 

Thanks nubbly. I will try to get this book, it sounds very interesting.

Another question you might be able to answer.

I read somewhere (i think it was on the World Budgerigar Organisation website) that only

Yellowfaces Mutation 1 Single Factor

Yellofaces Mutation 2 Double Factor

Goldenfaces Double Factor

should be entered in the YF Class at a show

as too much yellow suffusion will be penalized.

 

Is this true or does it depend on the overall quality of the bird?

 

Also would all these mutations have to be entered in YF class at a show?:

YF Opaline

YF Opaline AOSV

YF Albino (Creamino)

YF Spangle (Single&Double Factor)

YF Greywing

YF Texas Clearbody

YF Dilute

 

Thanks for your help.

Edited June 27, 2010 by lealotta

[nubbly5 0]

There is a very interesting section in "Colour Mutations & Genetics in Parrots" Dr Terry Martin, that's worth a read on this topic. In fact start at the start in regards to Parblue genetics and then finish it off with the section on the b-locus pg 241 for some further insight. He gives great detail about the different mutations of parblue and blue (not just budgerigars) and is worth a read (and a re-read I found) for anyone wanting to try and get their head further around yellowface genetics.

 

Thanks nubbly. I will try to get this book, it sounds very interesting.

Another question you might be able to answer.

I read somewhere (i think it was on the World Budgerigar Organisation website) that only

Yellowfaces Mutation 1 Single Factor

Yellofaces Mutation 2 Double Factor

Goldenfaces Double Factor

should be entered in the YF Class at a show

as too much yellow suffusion will be penalized.

 

Is this true or does it depend on the overall quality of the bird?

 

Also would all these mutations have to be entered in YF class at a show?:

YF Opaline

YF Opaline AOSV

YF Albino (Creamino)

YF Spangle (Single&Double Factor)

YF Greywing

YF Texas Clearbody

YF Dilute

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Well here in WA SF Golden faces are DQ'ed from the YF class and can only be benched as a Non-standard Variety. This goes against all other states of Aus who just penalise the heavy suffusion of the SF GF - what happens when one person makes the rules unfortunately. DF Golden faces are welcomed, however they are generally of lesser quality so often get beaten by other YF forms.

 

It seems that little distinction is made between SF and DF M2 YF's or SF M1's and any of these birds are benced in YF class without too much undue issue. Generally the bird is judged by quality. The Aus standard calls for 60% focus on type 15% markings and 25% markings so even with suffusion (unless it's very obvious) a very typie SF M2 will do just fine. BUT in the case of YF DF Spangles and Albino's, the clear body colour makes the yellow suffusion SO obvious that these birds often get baddly penalised beyond the quality of the bird (rightly or wrongly in the eyes of the current standard).

 

As to the other mutations......

Birds are benched according to the highest class number. So for example a YF Opaline - YF is Class 13, Oplaine is Class 9 - 13 is the highest class number so it goes in the YF class.

But you have to check the allowable combinatons too. A YF dilute would ordinaily be expected to be in Dilute (AOSV - Class 17) but if you look at the standard matrix there is no allowable combinations for the AOSV class so a YF dilute would have to be benched as a Non-standard Variety if the show offered that class. If the show does not offer a NSV/NSC class then the YF Dilute could not be entered (or would be DQ'ed).

[lealotta 0]

Well here in WA SF Golden faces are DQ'ed from the YF class and can only be benched as a Non-standard Variety. This goes against all other states of Aus who just penalise the heavy suffusion of the SF GF - what happens when one person makes the rules unfortunately. DF Golden faces are welcomed, however they are generally of lesser quality so often get beaten by other YF forms.

 

It seems that little distinction is made between SF and DF M2 YF's or SF M1's and any of these birds are benced in YF class without too much undue issue. Generally the bird is judged by quality. The Aus standard calls for 60% focus on type 15% markings and 25% markings so even with suffusion (unless it's very obvious) a very typie SF M2 will do just fine. BUT in the case of YF DF Spangles and Albino's, the clear body colour makes the yellow suffusion SO obvious that these birds often get baddly penalised beyond the quality of the bird (rightly or wrongly in the eyes of the current standard).

 

As to the other mutations......

Birds are benched according to the highest class number. So for example a YF Opaline - YF is Class 13, Oplaine is Class 9 - 13 is the highest class number so it goes in the YF class.

But you have to check the allowable combinatons too. A YF dilute would ordinaily be expected to be in Dilute (AOSV - Class 17) but if you look at the standard matrix there is no allowable combinations for the AOSV class so a YF dilute would have to be benched as a Non-standard Variety if the show offered that class. If the show does not offer a NSV/NSC class then the YF Dilute could not be entered (or would be DQ'ed).

 

Thank you nubbly. This information helps a lot.

I want to breed YF Normals + Opalines. Most of my YF birds are YF Mutation 2 I think. I also want to breed Creaminos because they are my favourite mutation. They probably won't have a chance on the show bench :-(, but I will try. After all you should breed the mutations you like best and I will also breed Albinos.

Edited June 27, 2010 by lealotta

[nubbly5 0]

No worries lealotta, glad to help.

 

YF M2's appear to be a bit more common so I wouldn't at all be surprised if yours are mainly M2's. In DF these guys are nice with little suffusion and nice cream faces. Your creamino's (YF Albino's) will probably get penalised a bit heavily to compete well but hey they ARE an allowable combination so they can still go to a show in the YF class.

 

And yes I agree very much that you should breed the mutations that you like. It's usually the pretty birds that get us all into show budgies in the first place and it seems silly to end up with a stud full of boring grey greens just to win a show if you really like other mutations more. That's why I ended up with pretty little scungy clearwings. They are lovely, colourful, pretty things (what HAVE I done ).

Edited June 27, 2010 by nubbly5

[GenericBlue 0]

There is a very interesting section in "Colour Mutations & Genetics in Parrots" Dr Terry Martin, that's worth a read on this topic. In fact start at the start in regards to Parblue genetics and then finish it off with the section on the b-locus pg 241 for some further insight. He gives great detail about the different mutations of parblue and blue (not just budgerigars) and is worth a read (and a re-read I found) for anyone wanting to try and get their head further around yellowface genetics.

 

Thanks nubbly. I will try to get this book, it sounds very interesting.

Another question you might be able to answer.

I read somewhere (i think it was on the World Budgerigar Organisation website) that only

Yellowfaces Mutation 1 Single Factor

Yellofaces Mutation 2 Double Factor

Goldenfaces Double Factor

should be entered in the YF Class at a show

as too much yellow suffusion will be penalized.

 

Is this true or does it depend on the overall quality of the bird?

 

Also would all these mutations have to be entered in YF class at a show?:

YF Opaline

YF Opaline AOSV

YF Albino (Creamino)

YF Spangle (Single&Double Factor)

YF Greywing

YF Texas Clearbody

YF Dilute

 

Thanks for your help.

i can lend you this book lealotta

its sitting here doing nothing collecting dust right now

if you like it you can then get yourself one

[lealotta 0]

No worries lealotta, glad to help. YF M2's appear to be a bit more common so I wouldn't at all be surprised if yours are mainly M2's. In DF these guys are nice with little suffusion and nice cream faces. Your creamino's (YF Albino's) will probably get penalised a bit heavily to compete well but hey they ARE an allowable combination so they can still go to a show in the YF class.And yes I agree very much that you should breed the mutations that you like. It's usually the pretty birds that get us all into show budgies in the first place and it seems silly to end up with a stud full of boring grey greens just to win a show if you really like other mutations more. That's why I ended up with pretty little scungy clearwings. They are lovely, colourful, pretty things (what HAVE I done :what: ).

Yep, if you don't like the mutation you are breeding, then there is no fun in it and you most likely lose interest. I will see how I go and I will probably read this in 12 months time and have completely different mutations in my aviary and lots of grey greens. I didn't like show types 12 months ago and now my aviary is full of them. I didn't like greys 6 months ago and now I have plenty in my aviary.

...but i did have a likeing for creaminos 2 years ago.

 

One more quick question: A YF Dominant Pied (class 19), would you show him in the Dominant Pied Class because number is higher than YF class 13?(or do you show him in the NSV/AOV class?)

i can lend you this book lealotta its sitting here doing nothing collecting dust right nowif you like it you can then get yourself one

gb, that would be great. Edited June 27, 2010 by lealotta

[GenericBlue 0]

No worries lealotta, glad to help. YF M2's appear to be a bit more common so I wouldn't at all be surprised if yours are mainly M2's. In DF these guys are nice with little suffusion and nice cream faces. Your creamino's (YF Albino's) will probably get penalised a bit heavily to compete well but hey they ARE an allowable combination so they can still go to a show in the YF class.And yes I agree very much that you should breed the mutations that you like. It's usually the pretty birds that get us all into show budgies in the first place and it seems silly to end up with a stud full of boring grey greens just to win a show if you really like other mutations more. That's why I ended up with pretty little scungy clearwings. They are lovely, colourful, pretty things (what HAVE I done ).

Yep, if you don't like the mutation you are breeding, then there is no fun in it and you most likely lose interest. I will see how I go and I will probably read this in 12 months time and have completely different mutations in my aviary and lots of grey greens. I didn't like show types 12 months ago and now my aviary is full of them. I didn't like greys 6 months ago and now I have plenty in my aviary. :rofl:

...but i did have a likeing for creaminos 2 years ago.

 

One more quick question: A YF Dominant Pied (class 19), would you show him in the Dominant Pied Class because number is higher than YF class 13?(or do you show him in the NSV/AOV class?)

i can lend you this book lealotta its sitting here doing nothing collecting dust right nowif you like it you can then get yourself one

:question: gb, that would be great.

 

 

cool will bring when i see you next but i kinda lent it to rachelam for a look but only as i couldnt find the book i was going to lend her so i will do swap at meeting next week

as i found book she really needs to be reading

[RIPbudgies 0]

No worries lealotta, glad to help. YF M2's appear to be a bit more common so I wouldn't at all be surprised if yours are mainly M2's. In DF these guys are nice with little suffusion and nice cream faces. Your creamino's (YF Albino's) will probably get penalised a bit heavily to compete well but hey they ARE an allowable combination so they can still go to a show in the YF class.And yes I agree very much that you should breed the mutations that you like. It's usually the pretty birds that get us all into show budgies in the first place and it seems silly to end up with a stud full of boring grey greens just to win a show if you really like other mutations more. That's why I ended up with pretty little scungy clearwings. They are lovely, colourful, pretty things (what HAVE I done ).

Yep, if you don't like the mutation you are breeding, then there is no fun in it and you most likely lose interest. I will see how I go and I will probably read this in 12 months time and have completely different mutations in my aviary and lots of grey greens. I didn't like show types 12 months ago and now my aviary is full of them. I didn't like greys 6 months ago and now I have plenty in my aviary. :rofl:

...but i did have a likeing for creaminos 2 years ago.

 

One more quick question: A YF Dominant Pied (class 19), would you show him in the Dominant Pied Class because number is higher than YF class 13?(or do you show him in the NSV/AOV class?)

i can lend you this book lealotta its sitting here doing nothing collecting dust right nowif you like it you can then get yourself one

:question: gb, that would be great.

 

 

cool will bring when i see you next but i kinda lent it to rachelam for a look but only as i couldnt find the book i was going to lend her so i will do swap at meeting next week

as i found book she really needs to be reading

 

 

If your interest in buying the book I have a couple of copies still cheaper than what you'll get it for at a pet shop or bird dealer. I have both soft and hard copies.

[GenericBlue 0]

No worries lealotta, glad to help. YF M2's appear to be a bit more common so I wouldn't at all be surprised if yours are mainly M2's. In DF these guys are nice with little suffusion and nice cream faces. Your creamino's (YF Albino's) will probably get penalised a bit heavily to compete well but hey they ARE an allowable combination so they can still go to a show in the YF class.And yes I agree very much that you should breed the mutations that you like. It's usually the pretty birds that get us all into show budgies in the first place and it seems silly to end up with a stud full of boring grey greens just to win a show if you really like other mutations more. That's why I ended up with pretty little scungy clearwings. They are lovely, colourful, pretty things (what HAVE I done ).

Yep, if you don't like the mutation you are breeding, then there is no fun in it and you most likely lose interest. I will see how I go and I will probably read this in 12 months time and have completely different mutations in my aviary and lots of grey greens. I didn't like show types 12 months ago and now my aviary is full of them. I didn't like greys 6 months ago and now I have plenty in my aviary. :rofl:

...but i did have a likeing for creaminos 2 years ago.

 

One more quick question: A YF Dominant Pied (class 19), would you show him in the Dominant Pied Class because number is higher than YF class 13?(or do you show him in the NSV/AOV class?)

i can lend you this book lealotta its sitting here doing nothing collecting dust right nowif you like it you can then get yourself one

:question: gb, that would be great.

 

 

cool will bring when i see you next but i kinda lent it to rachelam for a look but only as i couldnt find the book i was going to lend her so i will do swap at meeting next week

as i found book she really needs to be reading

 

 

If your interest in buying the book I have a couple of copies still cheaper than what you'll get it for at a pet shop or bird dealer. I have both soft and hard copies.

 

 

 

i brought mine of rip i got the soft cover it came very quickly

in the mail

[Squeak_Crumble 0]

What would you guys say this cock bird is? I have always wondered, as he is alot brighter apple green then other birds.

I thought he was a M2 bird

[GenericBlue 0]

id say mutant two myself

the colour is to soft to be golden face in my opinion but i could be wrong squeek

[Squeak_Crumble 0]

id say mutant two myself

the colour is to soft to be golden face in my opinion but i could be wrong squeek

 

Thanks GB :hi: I wouldn't say GF, it is a buttery colour.

[nubbly5 0]

My thoughts are M1, or maybe DF M2 - such little suffusion evident on wings which are almost white. M2's that I've seen are quite evenly suffused right down to the wings and tail.

[RIPbudgies 0]

single factor Mutant I Squeak.

[Dean_NZ 0]

I already know the answer to this but I have a curious little chick thats cropped up and wanted some thoughts, but first this question.

 

The yellow face type 2 single factor, yellow wash in the mask as well as an even pale yellow wash throughout the body - correct?

Double factor - stronger yellow in the mask, yellow wash in the body is also stronger but mainly found in the chest area leaving the rump blue - correct?

Yellow face type two in either single or double factor cannot be masked - correct?

 

I would appreciate some feedback before I present the actual chick and whats got me stumped..

[Finnie 0]

I already know the answer to this but I have a curious little chick thats cropped up and wanted some thoughts, but first this question.

 

The yellow face type 2 single factor, yellow wash in the mask as well as an even pale yellow wash throughout the body - correct? Yes

Double factor - stronger yellow in the mask, yellow wash in the body is also stronger but mainly found in the chest area leaving the rump blue - correct? No. The double factor would make the yellow paler, not stronger. (I had to go back to the beginning of this thread to double check on that.)

Yellow face type two in either single or double factor cannot be masked - correct? No. Golden face is dominant over yellow face. When both are present, the strength of the yellow is kind of in between. I'd have to go back and read through a lot more of the thread to find where this combination was described.

I would appreciate some feedback before I present the actual chick and whats got me stumped..

 

 

Hey- no holding out! We want to see the chick!!

[Dean_NZ 0]

I already know the answer to this but I have a curious little chick thats cropped up and wanted some thoughts, but first this question.

 

The yellow face type 2 single factor, yellow wash in the mask as well as an even pale yellow wash throughout the body - correct? Yes

Double factor - stronger yellow in the mask, yellow wash in the body is also stronger but mainly found in the chest area leaving the rump blue - correct? No. The double factor would make the yellow paler, not stronger. (I had to go back to the beginning of this thread to double check on that.) I've not heard of this, and I currently go by pete burgman as far as yellow face genetics and making sense of it all goes. If you look at double factor GF's the yellow is expressed in the face and chest / upper belly instead of the full yellow body wash, and since (also according to pete) the single factor of the YF2 is in fact a singular gene that expresses yellow on its own (like golden face) as opposed to the yellowface mutant one which is only able to produce yellow when the individual mutant 1 and mutant 2 alleles are present (sort of like full body colour greywing needs one clearwing and one greywing gene, yellowface mutant one is only present when there is a mutant 1 blue and mutant 2 blue gene present as they compliment eachothers flaws and together produce a successful but weak hybrid enzyme that allows yellow production in the face). Erm, anyway, having said that, if YF2 is able to produce yellow on its own a double factor would either be STRONGER or THE SAME as being a dominant gene it could only be fully dominant (meaning single and double factor are identical) or partial dominant meaning double factors are visually different to single factors which is the case in both YF2 and goldenface as far as i know?

Yellow face type two in either single or double factor cannot be masked - correct? No. Golden face is dominant over yellow face. When both are present, the strength of the yellow is kind of in between. I'd have to go back and read through a lot more of the thread to find where this combination was described. Thats something of a technicality there lol. I was talking about yellow vs white, not yellow vs golden hehehe.

I would appreciate some feedback before I present the actual chick and whats got me stumped..

 

 

Hey- no holding out! We want to see the chick!!

[Finnie 0]

I already know the answer to this but I have a curious little chick thats cropped up and wanted some thoughts, but first this question.

 

The yellow face type 2 single factor, yellow wash in the mask as well as an even pale yellow wash throughout the body - correct? Yes

Double factor - stronger yellow in the mask, yellow wash in the body is also stronger but mainly found in the chest area leaving the rump blue - correct? No. The double factor would make the yellow paler, not stronger. (I had to go back to the beginning of this thread to double check on that.) I've not heard of this, and I currently go by pete burgman as far as yellow face genetics and making sense of it all goes. If you look at double factor GF's the yellow is expressed in the face and chest / upper belly instead of the full yellow body wash, and since (also according to pete) the single factor of the YF2 is in fact a singular gene that expresses yellow on its own (like golden face) as opposed to the yellowface mutant one which is only able to produce yellow when the individual mutant 1 and mutant 2 alleles are present (sort of like full body colour greywing needs one clearwing and one greywing gene, yellowface mutant one is only present when there is a mutant 1 blue and mutant 2 blue gene present as they compliment eachothers flaws and together produce a successful but weak hybrid enzyme that allows yellow production in the face). Erm, anyway, having said that, if YF2 is able to produce yellow on its own a double factor would either be STRONGER or THE SAME as being a dominant gene it could only be fully dominant (meaning single and double factor are identical) or partial dominant meaning double factors are visually different to single factors which is the case in both YF2 and goldenface as far as i know? My sincere apologies, when I went back to look at it, I read it wrong. I figured that out later. Your are right. Sorry.

 

 

Yellow face type two in either single or double factor cannot be masked - correct? No. Golden face is dominant over yellow face. When both are present, the strength of the yellow is kind of in between. I'd have to go back and read through a lot more of the thread to find where this combination was described. Thats something of a technicality there lol. I was talking about yellow vs white, not yellow vs golden hehehe.

I would appreciate some feedback before I present the actual chick and whats got me stumped..

 

 

Hey- no holding out! We want to see the chick!!

[rachelm 0]

This is probably a stupid question. Is it only the double factor mutant 1 that looks like a normal blue (no yellow)? Because I have a nest of 4 chicks, 2 are yellow face, 2 are white faced. The parents are both yellow face.

[Dean_NZ 0]

This is probably a stupid question. Is it only the double factor mutant 1 that looks like a normal blue (no yellow)? Because I have a nest of 4 chicks, 2 are yellow face, 2 are white faced. The parents are both yellow face.

 

YF1 x YF1 will give you roughly half yellowfaces and half white faces, without going into specific detail about why