RIPbudgies

Saying that the pairing of two of the same mutations as Dave mention Opaline to Opaline will reduce size is not neccessarily correct unless the birds themselves are predisposed to produce small birds. Spangle dot not increase size purely because they are spangles. I have seen no evidence to back up those theories. There are some genes that are linked to colours and that is fact in other animals. Two examples of the top of my head are in horses and fox. The horse breed known as Andalusian contains no chestnut. The stud book does not allow any to be registered so they are not bred. Reason for this is they are just a little crazy. Not all, it can be bred out (more than likely by crossover) I owned a chestnut horse many years ago and yes it was a little unhinged and I have seen plently that were just as I have seen plently that weren't. There is a fox bred in Russia for the fur trade. Generally the little beggers are quite fisty and nervous in captivity. There occoured a mutation producing a different fur colour and with this came a change in temperment, they were more placid and coped better in the confines of the fur farm. There is no doubt that there is gene linkage but with such things as size, temperment etc but one can't take such tunnel visioned approach. Some of these fallacies came about so early on in the development of the budgerigar generally because it appear true at the time and there was very little information available to the breeder unlike today. Like any thing look through the pedigree, if there are a number of indivuals who are quite small then there is a higher chance of producing smaller birds.

Try this for a quick Sex Linkage table. http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2761/ge...cs/sexlink.html For pairing TCB with Ino's or Lacewings use this table http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2761/genetics/texas.html

Baby birds will always show blue feathering as the feather is immature and so lacks the full function of the adult bird. You must remember that all animals produce a juvenile fur/plumage etc. Human babies for example. The hair which they are born with is soft and fine but once a particular stage is reached it drops out and is replace by more mature hair. Check out what baby cheetah look like before maturing. Their spots are dull and they have a thick mane of hair on their necks. A lot of the immaturity has evolved for protection and/or camoflage. Also remember that word that I always use VARIATION.Baby birds will always show blue feathering as the feather is immature and so lacks the full function of the adult bird. You must remember that all animals produce a juvenile fur/plumage etc. Human babies for example. The hair which they are born with is soft and fine but once a particular stage is reached it drops out and is replace by more mature hair. Check out what baby cheetah look like before maturing. Their spots are dull and they have a thick mane of hair on their necks. A lot of the immaturity has evolved for protection and/or camoflage. Also remember that word that I always use VARIATION. Not all of one colour is identical to another. If you get to a show look at one class of birds, say Light Greens or Sky Blues, and really look at them. You'll see differences in the level of green in the body, the black undulated markings will vary as will the sharpness of these markings, check out the spots which will be the easiest to spot differences in.

No, she has produced non Grey offspring therefore she is a single factor Grey. The Grey baby will be a Grey Sky or a Grey Cobalt (if the hen is a Grey Dark Green). Tail blue - then definately the TCB is not Grey Green.

The sky blue would have to be a cobalt because a sky blue (0 dark factors) x green (1 dark factor) would not result in an olive which is 2 dark factors. So I believe that the TCB is a grey green not an olive - the cheek patches look silvery, this would be more likely. The rest is correct. It is a Texas Clearbody, Looking at the rump it appears it is a Dark Green. I can just see a little bit of tail which looks bluish, that coupled with the cheek patch colour rules out the colour Grey Green which is sometimes confused with Olive. Maybe your second chick on the list is a Grey Green. Look at the tail (black) and cheek patches (violet) The fact that a Sky Blue and a Light Green were produced means the second chick listed cannot be an Olive. Olive requires two dark factors, one from each parent. The cock has no dark factor to pass on. The hen could be a Light or Dark Grey Green but she is a single factor Grey as she has produced non Grey offspring. She is also split for Blue as blue has been produced. The cock is split for TCB and Opaline. As these are sexlinked any produced will all be hens. As you have not produced an Opaline Texas Clearbody combination it shows the genes for these two mutations are on separate chromosomes and will not be inherited together unless a crossover takes place.

That will be the Dark Green or Laurel as it was known then.

From what I can find in my Encyclopedia Botanica I reckon that tree is a Peltophorum pterocarpum. Common names are Golden Flame Tree; Flame Of Malaya. A native of Qld, NT, Malaysia and the Phillippines. Evergreen growing to 17m with a spread of about 4m. Leaves are Opposite Pinnate and fern like with 2cm long leaflets. Flowers are yellow, with crinkled petals and occur in large terminal sprays and appear from spring to summer. Fruiting bodies are brown pods. Does this match your tree? This book does not say if poisonous of not.

How did you come up with 6.25%. That is higher than known crossover percentages. Using your pairing suggestions I make it a 0.846% chance of breeding a Lacewing.

You will not breed any Lacewings unless the genes crossover. Chance of that happening is 3%.

They can get cameras into these places by using one similar to the ones used by doctors for inserting into small places. They are very small, highly mobile and found at the end of a long tube with cabling provide control to direction, light etc. If you have ever seen some of David Attenborough's docos you would have seen it in use. I have a video which was taken by a couple of fanciers here in WA on one of their trips up north. Quality of the film is not the best. I was going to check that I still had the video and see if I can get it moved over to DVD or such such media so others can see it.

Ooooh I love rats. I have owed three called Ben 1, Ben 2 after the movie ones they were both black and white. The third I named Socrates he was like your Rattacus. I have been thinking of getting one again lately but I am resisting temptation. For Now at least!

That was a real shame. That was one awefully good looking Dilute.

As above but the Black-eyed clear Dave is speaking about is actually called a Dark Eyed Clear and is a combination of 2 Danish genes and 1 Dutch Pied Gene. They are completely white and only breed true 100% when bred to another Dark Eyed Clear. They have a black eye with no iris ring. The other white bird is a Black Eyed Self which for show purposes is a composite of Dilute and Cinnamon bred over many generations to reduce the suffusion in the body. They have black eyes and and iris ring and cock have blue ceres. It is really hard to get them pure white.

The fact is there is Spangle in the mix. All the birds have full body colour so they can be Clearwing or FBC Greywing or they could just badly marked Spangles. If you want to know what they are paired them to Dilutes. That will then sort it out. Don't use another Spangle or a Spangle Dilute. It is the Spangle that is confusing the issue as the pointers to look for are removed by the Spangle mutation.

Thanks for sending me the link to this thread Kaz, Upon seeing the picture of the bird you described I would have to say is was a Dilute. A heavily marked one but a Dilute none the less. If I was to test and make sure I would paired it to a Sky or Light Green this will then tell you if you had a Sky Grey, Cobalt Grey or Mauve Grey or though I would guess Cobalt Grey. I would use a known split Dilute as this would then only produce Dilutes and Normal/Dilutes. I would also pick Normals that have the distinctive black shell markings not the ones with the fuzzy markings. I believe this hen is already the fuzzy marking type. What happened to this hen she had the most beautiful top end. I would have put her through my Clearwings if I had had her.

You have to be careful downloading and/or using some older programs if you are running Windows Vista. I had a good ol chinwag with Ken Yorke (Birdrec designer) last week and he told me that as a computer programmer he and others find it more difficult to write programs for Vista. You can split ya computer up and run two different windows. My new computer has had trouble when using older programs so I use my older one which I still have. On the older computer I run windows 98 (for gaming purposes as Age of Empires runs best on '98) and it also runs Windows XP.

Your bird Arkady is a SINGLE FACTOR Goldenface. A DOUBLE FACTOR Goldenface does not look anything like your bird. Don't forget also your bird is Sky Blue the one on this thread is Cobalt. The Goldenface was one of the varieties that I specialised in for 20 years. How about yourself. How long have you specialised in Goldenfaces?

In australia you only need to worry about YF M1 i.e. Creamface and GF i.e. Goldenface The only reason Australia does not have the YF M2 is beacuse the government would not allow imports into Oz. Sure birds were smuggled both ways or from Oz to Europe and then to the UK. Not too many birds came from the UK into Oz. Yes JB a df YF M1 is a white face bird. Ken Grey's book Rainbow Budgerigars and constituent varieties clearly states the differences between the yellowface mutations. If you can get a copy of this book you'll will find it a worth while investment. Both YF M2 and GF can be found in the double factored form. Below is a picture of one of my DF Goldenfaces I bred. Although it is hard to see as the quality of the picture is not the best, this bird does show some yellow on the back of the neck and there was some still in the wings and tail feathers and very slightly in the body. This is normal and will vary depending on the depth of the Sky, Cobalt, Violet or Mauve colouring as these themselves vary from bird to bird. Its called variation. All species must have variation in order to survive. If Australia has no yf2..then a bright yellow faced bird with yellow all through the wings markings, head, and body (making it a sea green colour) is what exactly? A single factor gf? So, let me see if I got this right. We (australia) have no yf2. So we only have yf1 (double factor, causing a white face bird, and single factor, which is a cream faced bird with little to no yellow in the body) and gf (double factor, which is as the picture above, and single factor, which is like a yf2, a sea green coloured bird as all the yellow goes throughout the entire body)?? Correct As I already said in my post in reply to your thread she is a double factored Goldenface. The definations of which yellowface is which is not decided by the confines of the yellow. Here is another photo to ponder over. This cock is a single factor Goldenface Cobalt Grey(sf). He shows a slightly paler yellow face because of the family line he belonged and the fact he was a Cobalt Grey he shows only a small amount of yellow suffusion As I keep mentioning variation. I had a particular family of Goldenfaces that excelled bright yellow faces. They could be the brighter yellow spoke of by Ken Gray. I had another line which I would say could well be like the YF M2 of the UK. All my GF did have one thing in common though I had managed to breed and beautifully natured line of birds many of which went on to produce the best pets some of which even went on to be good talkers. It's all in the genes.

In australia you only need to worry about YF M1 i.e. Creamface and GF i.e. Goldenface The only reason Australia does not have the YF M2 is beacuse the government would not allow imports into Oz. Sure birds were smuggled both ways or from Oz to Europe and then to the UK. Not too many birds came from the UK into Oz. Yes JB a df YF M1 is a white face bird. Ken Grey's book Rainbow Budgerigars and constituent varieties clearly states the differences between the yellowface mutations. If you can get a copy of this book you'll will find it a worth while investment. Both YF M2 and GF can be found in the double factored form. Below is a picture of one of my DF Goldenfaces I bred. Although it is hard to see as the quality of the picture is not the best, this bird does show some yellow on the back of the neck and there was some still in the wings and tail feathers and very slightly in the body. This is normal and will vary depending on the depth of the Sky, Cobalt, Violet or Mauve colouring as these themselves vary from bird to bird. Its called variation. All species must have variation in order to survive.

Dave all I was trying to do was to point out that when you post a photo and simply entitled it "The WACA" it gave anybody who does not know the impression that the building in the foreground is the WACA which of course it is not. This is a public forum and as such photos will get lifted and can end up anywhere with the wrong caption attached. The net is a big place. It can be a great source to learn some really cool stuff. On the other hand a lot of misinformation is also available. Dave I accept your apology and I am not a big fan of Jerry Seinfeld. I always remember a saying I grew up with: "Sarcasim is the lowest form of wit". Although it has an excellent use as a tool for the detection of dementia I personally have never been a big fan it it.

I understand that we have all grown up with old school terms. I have also but have along the way sought out the latest information I can find. The lastest writings about Yellowfaces have been done by Peter Bergman (Sydney, Aust), Ken Yorke (Newcastle, Aust), Ken Gray (UK) and Terry Martin (QLD, Aust). You must also look at what mutations are avaialble in which countries also. Australia upto a few years ago only had Goldenfaces. Now we have Yellowface Mutant 1 and Goldenfaces so using the terms YF1 and YF2 here doesn't work as in the UK, YF1 = Yellowface mutant 1 and YF2 = Yellowface mutant 2 and GF = Goldenface. Don't forget you are on an international forum. GB seems to have some sort of handle on at least putting them into a class of sorts. What I have seen on this forum is a lack of understand about the yellow "spillage" and this is causing the greatest concern for incorrect classification. No distinction is made regarding single or double factors. The bird that started this stread off is an example. Everybody straight away decided that because the yellow was confined to the face then the bird is a YF1 but a YF1 is a "creamface" or the pale yellow faced bird. You have not taken into consideration that a double factored GF or YF M2 will restrict the yellow to the face. Show standards are one thing but don't take them literrally when you decide what a bird is cause it will send you down the wrong path. Show standards are exactly that a standard to acheive for the showing purposes of a particular variety. It is not an accurate identification tool. Show standards are usually written by those with little understanding of origin of a given variety and it is driven more by what is wanted on the shown bench rather then what may be achievable. Remember humans have a need to pigeon hole things.

Am I wrong or is that basically the same thing? crossover/mix between... I'm sorry if what I find interesting doesn't interest you. Just because you don't find it interesting doesn't mean it isn't interesting to others.. Has there ever been an ino bird that has shown greywing? You misinterpreted what I wrote. Thats makes you the second person today. I am not saying I am not interested. I interperated the word 'interesting' in the context of what you had written to mean that is was something strange. I was mearly saying that it is not strange but is a explainable event. Greywing can be crossed with any other variety. The problems come in when you wish to show the resulting combination. Greywing with Fallow changes the wing colour to grey-brown, in Cinnamons again grey-brown, in Lacewings because of the Cinnamon factor you get a grey-brown but it may be harder to see as would Dilute.

I am going on what you guys keep putting up on threads. You keep making references to YF1 when a bird with a yellow only face turns up regardless of it's actuall genetic designation. If the bird shows even the slightest spillage of yellow into the body you label it as YF2 even though it is a YF1. YF2 seems to be used when you decided it is "seafoam" in colour to use other words, not mine. Most every one here has no real understanding about Yellowfaces and still insist on using outdated terminolgy. As I have said before there are three mutations of yellowface birds: YF mutant 1 single factor has a yellow face and their can be some spillage but because the yellow is not as intense as YF mutant 2 the spillage is not as noticable. The fainter the yellow the less obvious the spillage. The double factor is white faced. YF mutant 2 single factor has yellow face with yellow through the body giving a sea green colour. The double factor has the yellow restricted more to the facial area. Some spillage will occur but may not be as noticable depending on the body colour of the bird. This particular mutatn was known only to exist in the UK and was beening bred by Ken Gray. Even Ken himself has never proven beyound a show of a doubt that this mutant and the GF are one and the same. Goldenface single and double factor is the same as for Mutant 2 but it seems the GF has a brighter yellow. This is the bird used by Keston Foriegn Bird Farms to produce rainbows.

Generally that problem is found in birds that have suffered with PBFD. The feather is affected part way through the growing period and the rachis has constricted effectivly stopping any blood flow to the developing feather. Some birds however having a slight dose of PBFD manage to come through with the rest of the feather appearing normal but with what looks like another attached, but it is all the same feather. You probably find when the bird moults it will be quite normal.