Dean_NZ

All colour removing genes can mask other mutations. The only reason ino is said to mask anything is because there is no pigmentation left. Any other mutations would express as normal, except all in white or yellow depending on the bird. Dark eyed clear, double factor spangle and even a heavily whited/yellowed out DF dom pied can mask any other gene. The genes are still there, you just cant tell without the normal markings or colourations to show. EDIT: Chick looks SF dom pied with a lot of clear feather. There is still too much colour/markings to be DF though i think. Nubbly is right, it'll come down to breeding

Aaaaah more trouble!!! This pairs first clutch is really starting to worry me! I was checking on the chicks in the nursery today, and what i normally do at this age is take them out of the nursery into the breeding cage area (enlcosed) and let them fly around while i clean and feed. I took out the albino, which is a foster chick from another pair, and as soon as it tried to fly, its flight feathers fell out too!!! It lost about half of them. Is it stress moulting from being kicked out of the nest by the cock as well? Im worried there might be some sort of mite problem, but the other two chicks are flying fine for their age. I've seperated the two chicks that are losing flights, and brought them inside the house in a cage to moniter them. Gosh im really starting to feel sad now. Im scared i've doomed them to a flight-less life or something!! How can i tell if its mites, stress moult, or by some stretch of the imagination - dietary deficiency? (protein maybe? but isnt that in softfood and rolled oats?) I really want these chicks to be healthy and bounce back. Im going to pull my hair out if i find another chick moulting tomorrow Help!

Sounds like a case of an over feeding cock. I hear there are cocks that are superb at feeding and raising chicks - however, they forget to feed themselves and can die from malnutrition. Could be what has happened here, and i suspect he will always be that way which is why it would be wise to retire him from breeding. Good luck!

Yes im absolutely sure its the cock. I have the nest boxes set up so i can watch without too much interference or disturbance, and in the first round i would watch him come into the box while the hen is sitting, steal one or two eggs off of her and sit on them next to her. Or she would go out to eat/stretch/poop, and he would go in and sit on the eggs. Now going into the second round, soon after the hen laid her egg, he chased the chicks that werent already out in the breeding cage out the nest box hole. Then i watched him kick all the nesting material around, stop, sit on the egg and then get up and kick material around again so i swapped nest boxes with a clean one and when he went in there was nothing to kick around so he sat on the egg (the hen doesnt sit yet). Today during feeding time, i heard him scratching around again but i knew there was nothing to kick around except the egg so when i looked in i found him kicking it around and pecking it, then sitting on it a while. Then he would kick it again and peck at it which is when i saw he'd pierced it I removed him and put him with the chicks in the nursery because he's not violent, he's just very clucky... very feminate and possessive of the nest box around egg laying and hatching time. So basically i have to decide to either keep him away from the hen and her second clutch and hope the remaining eggs will be fertilised by any remaining sperm (if they have successfully mated), or i wait until the hen has started sitting on 1-2 eggs, re-introduce him and let them get on with things provided he doesnt try to destroy the eggs. If i can re-introduce him safely, i will remove any clear eggs and hopefully the hen will replace them with fertile eggs and continue sitting. Oh the joys of breeding lol. Their eldest chick (the one that was attacked by the hen) has stress moulted all flight feathers except the outermost primary flight on each wing. He's also a strapping looking bird and i hope to focus on his nutrition around his adult moult so he regrows his flights and turns into what i think will be an outstanding bird for this pair. No other chicks have been attacked or stress moulted (they were chased out of the nest, but they werent plucked).

Hi guys, I have Big Blue and his mate down at the moment alongside augren and tuatha who are finishing their last round. Big blue and his mate laid 6 eggs, 4 fertile / 2 clear, 4 hatched but one got crushed. During the first round i would often find big blue sitting on the eggs or the babies while his mate was feeding or pooping. At first i thought this was a great and attentive father. But yesterday the hen laid her first egg of round two, which i knew was happening because she started begging the male for attention about 3 days ago and they have been feeding eachother a lot. Anyway, she laid yesterday and big blue (the male) kicked all the babies out of the nest and started kicking all the nesting material around constantly, sometimes kicking the egg around then going after it, tucking it under him and sitting for a bit before getting up and kicking stuff around again. Today i checked on the egg and it was fine, but during the time i was changing seed/water/soft food, i heard some scratching, thumping tapping noises and peeked in the box to find him pecking the egg and kicking it around. When i checked the egg i found he had pierced it in two places and there was a little bit of muck inside the shell. I figured he was going to eat it, so i put all the babies into the nursery, and then for good measure i chucked him in their too! Im just wondering if i did the right thing? Why is he so possessive of eggs and the nest box? He's gone a little nutso over this new round. I left the egg and the hen alone, hoping that she doesnt eat it before tomorrow, and if she lays a second she will start sitting tight and then i might consider bringing him back (just to ensure fertility). I dont know if i should!!! I need some advice on this one because i really want as many good eggs as possible. Its a toss up between getting eggs that may be infertile, or fertile eggs that may get eaten. 1) Was it right to remove him? 2) Should i leave him where he is, or consider putting him back once the hen is sitting on 2-3 eggs? 3) IF i leave him with the chicks, how might that affect fertility? 4) Does anyone have experience with cocks like this? What would you advise?

You can tell if a bird is blue or grey around this age. Once the pen feathers come through, the first pin feathers showing colour are to be found just above the tail feathers, theres usually 2-3 coloured ones about 2-3mm above the tail stump. Blow on the down or move it aside to see if they are growing, just when they are the length of the down or a bit longer you should see colour. Thats how i always see so early I'll try get a picture to show what i mean if you have any trouble and to prove what im saying works for me Mind you, i would have no clue how easy it is to judge grey green from grey feathers using the same technique. Blue vs grey is much easier.

I didn't realise it had to be a dominant split recessive to recessive (or dom split recessive) to get DEC's. I gathered from other posts that it had something to do with clearflight pieds?? Oh duh! Its clearflight pied with recessive pied. I really should think for one second before posting What you end up with when crossing dominant pied and recessive pied is a budgie that can in some cases be almost free of markings and might make one think it is a double factor dominant pied.

Yup, thats how you make dark eyed clears. Pairing a dominant pied budgie split recessive pied with a recessive pied budgie or another dominant pied split recessive would work too.

Hi all, Have a second pair who's chicks are almost out of the nest. The first chick is almost a week older than the last 3, so it feathered up and looked mature quite a bit before the others. During last week i found him outside the nest box two times, but placed him back no probs. Yesterday i saw him outside and checked his age, he's 43 days old and fully feathered so i wasnt worried. Today however, i saw him up on the perch by mum and she was staring at him with a look i knew was hostile. Sure enough she shuffled up to him and started pecking and biting him until he fell down. I took him in out and tried to sneak him in the box, but she went in and both her and dad attacked him so i put him in the nursery cage (he's the only chick in there at the moment until the bro's and sisters join him). He seems to be eating, as i start putting millet and seed into the nest box at about 2 weeks of age onwards. My main concern is that most of the (few) chicks i have so far raised have learned to fly before they fledge. After playing with it for a while (it loves to be scratched) it started trying to fly up to my shoulder and seemed... heavy. I noticed two flights on the right wing were out of place, then they fell out while he preened on my shoulder. Does anyone have experience with flights falling out of chicks so young? Im wondering if they became dislodged by the parents attack, but i just want to be sure. Seems like a tricky start to life :rofl: Anyone have advice for caring for the lil guy? Thoughts on feathers?

I think one of the big breeders i know of soaks/sprouts oats but they arent crushed at all. They are called oat groats or whole groats or something, they are basically the whole grain and he gets them from a horse feed store or stock shop.

Which begs the question.. how many of your chicks or birds are split greywing?

Its possible after breeding large numbers of budgies over many years that one can start to discern outstanding birds while still in the nest, and cull the rest as soon as they are safely eating and drinking, or even after the first moult to be a bit more certain. But I agree with Kaz, if you are breeding for show and really only in the beginning stages, I would be holding on to birds for much longer to see how they turn out before considering selling them. Looks like you have some great stock to work with so I would be holding on to the chicks for now if I had your birds in my aviary!

Interesting. Keep us updated on how that works out. I would never have tried that myself, seems simpler to just leave the hen to raise the chicks which she is quite capable of doing on her own. Seems to me that introducing a new male at this stage would be more risk than its worth, but i would love to see good things happen! Let us know how it works out!

Looks DEC to me. OF course age will tell with iris rings being the biggest decider, but dont DEC's have the tell tale orange beak? Something about the picture doesnt look DF spangle to me.

Babies all look splayed until they are old enough to carry their own weight and start walking around. Dont be so hasty to treat what may not be present. Granted there may be real cause for concern, but i think its too early to tell and far too early to treat for splayed legs.

I dont think the breeder has tried to trick you in any way. What the previous poster said about her coming out of breeding condition is natural, birds come and go into and out of condition regularly. My birds follow a 7 week cycle roughly, although i have two hens that seem to always have brown ceres, the rest go through cycles. Its natural. You picked the hardest time of year to encourage breeding! Budgies will be more likely to breed when they are comfortable and familiar with their surroundings and eachother. It may take a month or so before your birds are comfortable enough to even consider breeding and by then it may be too cold and they may not want to! There are tons of factors, and always a bit of luck needed when it comes to breeding. Best of luck! In the meantime, stick around and learn as much as you can! Its an awesome experience

Isnt it usually a case of two first timers = slow on the go? Many breeders i know pair experienced males with first time females, and experienced females with first time males if they want things to move along a bit smoother. Of course nothing is ever for sure with budgies I'd follow kaz's advice for now

Nope, mine has yellow wings and white flights too So does its mum!

I have a chick coming up that is just like this one! Its about a week younger so its great to see how it might turn out! Its a YF2 SF dominant pied cobalt. Cant wait to see them both feather up! I'll be sure to show you! Also, in regards to the wings being yellow, thats because the of the yellow face My chick has the same yellow wings

I would say the first is a double factor but the rest are single factor. Remember that dominant pieds can vary in the amount of clear feather produced by the single factor gene. Some can almost resemble clearflights - having minimal belly band clear feathers and mainly flights clear. Others can have a huge belly band and almost clear wings up to the shoulder. First one is way too clear to be SF though And again i would bet the others are all SF with some variance.

Sounds to me like she is anxious or feeling threatened. Aggressive hens head thrust with an open beak to attack or defend themselves. Stretched out head sounds like she is scanning for threats and poised to fight or flight. Where abouts is your bird situated? Are there people or animals who frighten her? Is she alone? Is she high up or low? All sorts of things may be doing it. She could also be hormonal, coming into puberty or going through a cycle.

Can you shine a torch through yourself? Its normal once the chicks have developed. They block the light so all you see is a dark area where the chick is and a light area where the air bubble is! No worries!

One word. Jealous! I wish it was so simple for me to get clearwings here

She is likely a Double Factor yellow face type 2. I have not yet bred them myself, but from what i've read im pretty sure it results in the yellow spillage being refined to the chest area instead of all over the body as it would in SF YF2.

Did someone clip his wings before selling him to you?