Dean_NZ

I dont even know why they've only regrown 3-4 flights on each wing. Why not all? Why did the foster lose them again and start losing shoulder feathers as well. I think she may have some sort of lung mite, she 'clicks' when she breathes. I was home doing an essay, and i heard a clicking noise all day and i was getting creeped out until i realised it was timed perfectly with her breathing. I am considering treating her once more with ivermectin since its been about 2 weeks since her first drop, and if she does have a lung mite, ivermectin SHOULD clear it up. Otherwise i will be trying one of the natural remedies we have been discussing in that other thread of yours. If you do still sell, try and keep the top half of your budgies. You have far better birds than I do! I believe what kaz says about the bad things most breeders experiencing going unsaid. I dont doubt people tend to keep their dirty laundry hidden out of public view!

I know just how you feel pearce. I had just the same thing happen to me in my last clutches. 3 chicks and one foster in a nest, the oldest chick and the foster both lost all their flights and tail feathers. I treated them with ivermectin (one drop on the neck each) and it appears to have worked, but thats debatable. The foster lost all her flights and feathers, the oldest lost the same but kept one tail feather. They both since regrew about 4 flights on each wing, but when the foster flies they fall out again. The oldest seems to have kept them. I dont know if its mites or lack of protein. It cant be a breeding fault because they arent related. It could be french moult, but i honestly havent read up on that (focus too much on genetics study lol). It is frustrating because the oldest chick is my best (biggest) of all bred this year. It looks like the foster is losing body feathers too, and continuing to do so. I cant figure it out and its annoying me too. Stick with it!

From the front the hen looks to be a SF violet opaline (or spangle) cobalt. Cock looks to be a SF violet cobalt normal (possibly split for opaline). I would expect: 25% sky blue, 50% cobalt, 25% mauve 25% no violet, 50% SF violet, 25% DF violet factor If the hen is opaline, all cocks will be split for it. If the cock is split for opaline, expect 50% opaline females, 50% normal females, 50% opaline males, 50% males split opaline. If however the hen is spangle, then expect half the chicks to also be spangle. I dont have a genetics calculator, so im just gonna take a stab at this for fun, might be wrong but here goes: 6.25% sky blue, 12.5% SF violet sky blue, 6.25% DF violet skyblue 12.5% cobalt, 25% SF violet cobalt, 12.5% DF violet cobalt 6.25% mauve, 12.5% SF violet mauve, 6.25% DF violet mauve (Basing the above on the idea that the violet gene is a colour adding gene that is free floating, just like grey factor. I know some people believe that the violet gene is linked to either a dark factor or non-dark factor gene, but thats not how i personally see it)

Havent there been records and studies of budgies vocab? Im sure i've seen it said that some budgies have obtained a vocab of over 2000 words and learned to speak in context. I hear tell budgies are as smart as a 2-3 y.o human child. Wouldnt doubt it for a second. Even if budgies dont talk, they're all that sneaky!

Hi all. I have been paying attention to my birds as they are moulting at the moment. Checking especially for bald patches and any unusually feather loss. Anyway, today i noticed a big large growth or lump on my biggest hen, right above here cere. I caught her to check it out, and it is actually sort of partly over or intruding onto here cere and blocking off her right nostril a tiny tiny fraction. It is red, solid and appears to have a yellow (*****?) inside. I didnt want to try and squeeze it or pierce it without first finding out what people might think of it and if anyone has had them before. Excuse the picture quality, i sort of rushed the photos as she wasnt too keen on them Thoughts? Recommendations? This is her yesterday, no or little signs of feather disturbance, let alone a lump: today:

Someone should collate the info on this thread and present it in a sticky. We can try the different remedies ourselves and give feedback, reinforcing or removing remedies as we find out for ourselves if they hold true to their claims.

I think pearce meant to say all olive greens.

You mean clearfight pied or just mutations that cause clearflights? You could use a dom pied or clearfight pied parent and a DF or SF spangle parent to get clearflight spangle chicks.

10 confirmed cases in new zealand, students and teachers who just got back from mexico. Not really worried about it though.

I had heard of most of splats remedies, but couldnt for the life of me remember them all. Much appreciated splat! I heard chamomile was good for calming birds prior to shows or any sort of change. Also helps to calm after night fright or other injuries. Also heard but cant confirm that a tonic made from aloe vera plants (the gell in the leaves) boiled with water then cooled is good for birds with stomach upsets or other gastro-intestinal or diet related problems. By far the highest recommended food supplement or natural remedy i have heard of is eucalyptus!!!

I live in hamilton and there are only like 4 or 5 pet shops that i know of >_> They all have hand rearing formula too.

Yeah its a different system that requires a little more knowledge about your birds. With colony breeding, birds always have the option so they'll breed when they want to. With cabinet breeding, we may put in birds that aren't ready or have not adapted to being in a cage (as opposed to an aviary). There is an adjustment curve for both bird and breeder. I had similar problems with birds mating in the aviary, but as soon as i put them in a cabinet they would stop and lose all interest. It will work for some birds straight away, and with these birds that do clue on quickly, you can seperate them and pair up one experienced cabinet bird with an unexperienced bird the following season. There are also some birds who prefer being able to climb on top of the nest box and explore it before they will breed so internal VS external boxes require consideration. That being said, its entirely up to you how you breed your birds. Perhaps you could try both - some cabinets with the rest breeding in the aviary and slowly change over. Personally i prefer having greater certainty over parentage Stops me getting all greys or opalines or pieds etc.

As far as colony breeding goes, this has to be one of the better setups i've seen. Plenty of identical nestboxes placed at the same height etc. I would still personally recommend kaz's advice - leave the aviary for fun, and build cabinets for breeding to which you can attach your breeding boxes. Im sure you will find it a much easier way to go in the end

I'd be more inclined to think violet sky blue YF2 spangle male. The picture without flash looks violet, the picture with flash looks more like sky blue's vibrancy, plus he lacks the ribbing of a cobalt. Cobalt birds have a faint whitish edging to their feathers that gives them a sort of 'fish scale' appearance. His feathering is that of a sky blue, as is the vibrancy. I would think the depth of colour is due to a violet factor.

Why are you trying to breed when you dont have money for cages, aviaries or even seeds?

Good idea about the seed AV. I didnt think to mention it because its automatic for me! I always put seed and millet in the box once the oldest chick is around 2-3 weeks old. Makes for less trips for food and babies can pick at it themselves. Seed in the nest box may just be the right distraction for the hen right now, seems like she's stressed.

Love seeing those yellow pins come through!

Its a shame I haven't yet been able to test breed birds to confirm or deny my understanding of the above. As sure as I sound about it all, this is only because this is the inormation I have found that makes the most sense to me. I will definately be test breeding in future to establish my own knowledge more fully. I already see where there might be some holes in the theory (for example if b1b2 is YF1, and By2B1 is yf2, what do you get from a By2B2 bird?) I agree that there is only one goldenface mutation. But although I can only speculate at this point, given the variation i have seen in goldenface birds, there must be some sort of composite varieties around. Again I hope to test breed. Although I only meant to include the rainbows as a side note, I was interested in your breakdown of the second link I gave you and upon following all his references, am inclined to agree somewhat about the butchery or re-hashing of existing information. With specific regard to his statement regarding the YF2 creation through experimentation, was the truth actually that YF2 and Goldenfaces were imported from australia? I really appreciate your feedback rip!

I would swap the oldest chicks into another nest if possible. Another option is removing them and hand feeding them, or a third option again is to remove the mum and let dad continue feeding chicks. It will be hard on him and i would advise you not to do any more rounds with either parent for a good long while. Let us know how it goes.

Yer, what dave said!

Im notoriously horrible for not saying hello to new members. Sorry this is short and sweet, but hi and welcome to the forum Great community here

Perfect timing Kaz Thanks for the post and picture! Edit: Also, without wanting to throw a spanner into the works, I cant see YF?Are you assuming all chicks are YF or can you evidently see yellow head and/or tail/wing pins? I cant see it, maybe its just my comp resolution or the time of night.Two YF1's will produce 50% YF1, 25% b1b1 and 25%b2b2. Technically there is no such thing as DF YF1 as i have just posted in a huge post elsewhere. YF1 are a combination mutation like fullbody clearwing which are one clearwing and one greywing gene, co-dominant and express differently together than two clear wing or two greywing genes do. Except two b1 genes produce a whtie faced blue, and two b2 genes produce a white faced blue. Together, they produce YF1 (b1b2). So if your cock is b1b1 and your hen is b1b1, you will get no YF1. Same if your cock is b2b2 and your hen is b2.If your cock is b1b1 and your hen is b2b2 all chicks will be b1b2 or YF1.Hope that makes sense.

This is not true from what i have read. Blue birds are only blue because their yellow pigment production is faulty, creating what should really be known as a 'parblue' budgie or faulty green essentially. There are four known distinct mutations of the fully functional yellow gene (lets call it G) - gene B1, B2, By2 (YF2) and GF. B1 is the first known faulty mutation, and in the presence of G (Eg G B1 budgie) the fully functional G gene is able to fully compensate for the faulty B1 gene and gives you what we call a green budgie split for blue. The same goes for all parblue genes - in the presence of a single functional gene, there is no phenotypical change as yellow production from the one functional gene is sufficient to fully compensate for the faulty gene. It is also important to note before going on that: When you get a double factor B1 bird, there is NO ability to produce a working enzyme for yellow pigment. This is the allele that is responsible for creating the first blue birds. At some unknown time, a second distinct mutation occured that phenotypically gave the same result as the faulty B1 allele. This is the B2 allele, and double factor B2s are identical to B1's, however the B1 mutation is located on a different part of the gene, and although faulty, seems more functional than the B2 allele(although not enough to produce a working enzyme on its own). When paired together, B1 and B2 seem to be able to compensate PARTIALLY for eachothers faults, and TOGETHER they are able to produce a weak enzyme that produces a light yellow pigment in the face (and sometimes this is also found in the wings or tails of these birds). This combination of genes produces what we call the YF1 mutant blue. A 'double factor YF1' is not B1B1, but B2B2, as the B1 allele is on a different part of the gene, allowing it to interact with and produce varying degrees of pigment when paired with B2, By2 and GF. Breeding a B2B2 to a B1B1 bird will produce 100% B1B2 offspring, or 100% 'single factor' YF1 mutants. Technically single factor and double factor YF1 is incorrect, as these birds are actually a combination of two genes, in a similar way that a full body clearwing is a combination of the clearwing and grewying genes which are mutations on different parts of the same gene and are compensatory when paired together. In an attempt to improve upon the YF1 mutant, the Keston bird farm in Kent, england selectively bred a large number of birds. Although they were unable to improve the colouration of the YF1 mutant, their attempts resulted in the first commercial production and sale of "Rainbow budgies" as well as the appearance of a new mutation, the YF2 mutant (By2). (I'll link the document later). The By2 gene is a semi-functional gene, therefore it is semi-dominant to blue, or co-dominant. Thus is can truly be called "single factor" or "double factor" as there are differences in the appearance of both. In its single factor form (By2B1), the bird appears as above - A deeper richer yellow than YF1 that spreads into the body and creates a yellow tint (seafoam green as we call it). In its double factor form, the yellow pigment can be slightly stronger but the yellow production seems limited to the face and upper chest of the bird (By2By2) as well as the short lateral tail feathers. Later still a further and final distinct mutation accured in australia. This is the Goldenface (which i have called the GF, but should really call bg). This is similar in breeding and appearance to the YF2 (By2) allele, but produces a much stronger yellow enzyme. From what i have read and understand, there remains a great confusion over yellowface breeding due to the variety in offspring that can be hard to understand without realising the number of seperate mutations that have occured in the yellow face or 'parblue' gene. Here is a summary based on what i can find: B1B1 Produce the defective B1 enzyme B2B2 Produce the defective B2 enzyme B1B2 Produce the defective B1 and B2 enzymes, and the semi-functional B1B2 hybrid enzyme creating the classic Blue mutant 1 (YF1) By2B1 Produces the defective B1 enzyme and the Hyperactive By2B1 enzyme, creating the single factor Blue Mutant 2 (single factor YF2) we know and love which has a yellow wash (eg seafoam green). I thought it would help to introduce the classic YF2 and then add that YF2 gene breeds exactly like the goldenface gene, although in all combinations produces a lighter yellow than GF. Read below to find out the breeding combinations of GF. BgfBgf ( Bgf = bg) produces the active enzyme Bgf and creates the classic Double Factor Goldenface, with a strong yellow colour face, and in adults this can sometimes spill into the chest area. BgfB1 produces the defective B1 enzyme, the active enzyme Bgf and the hyperactive hybrid enzyme BgfB1 giving a bird that is almost identical to the Blue mutant 2 (YF2) except it produces a much brighter yellow in the face and body. In the case of the body, it is a deeper shade of green than By2B1 (YF2 mutant) but still lighter than a normal green. BgfB2 Produces the defective B2 enzyme, the active enzyme Bgf and the active hybrid enzyme BgfB2 producing a bird paler than a double factor goldenface but brighter than a YF1 mutant. This is the classic Single Factor Goldenface. BgfBy2 is as follows: Here are the links to articles that will elaborate: http://www.birdhobbyist.com/parrotcolour/peter/yface01.html http://bfsdc.com/budgieclub/Articles/The%2...n%20Kamrath.pdf

Spangle tails are as nerwen said, white with dark tips. To me the second chick looked to have white tail feathers so i thought spangle. On second look the white tail feathers do NOT include the main two, which are the ones that clue you in early where spangle would be present. I think nerwen has it right, first and second chick arent spangle, last is DF spangle. I would be curious to see why the second chick has almost all white tail feathers bar the main two however. I'll be watching for updates! Also pearce, there are a few mutations that are easy to pick out early. I learned only the other day that DF spangles have red eyes for the first few days apparently (havent yet seen this myself). Dominant and rec. pieds I learned recently also have clear tail feathers, so it can be a bit confusing where multiple genes may be present in chicks. Ino and cinnamon are easy to identify going by eyes, opalines have white down feathers instead of grey, dom pieds clear head patch is evident very early. Lots of ways to tell mutation early.