Dean_NZ

Look like opaline recessives. Recessive has a great deal of variation in markings or lack theroef. Could be greywing or some such in there, but time will tell i guess.

That's right, Greywings do no dilute the body colour and their wing markings should be darker. Its clearwings that have full body colour. Greywings DO dilute body colour up to 50%. Full body colour clearwings are a composite of one grewying and one clearwing gene, getting the wing markings from greywing and the fuller body colour from the clearwing gene. Both are dominant to dilute which dilutes both wings and body colour (everything).

Looks like a dominant pied spangle to me, but it looks to have more wing markings than one would normally expect. Although it also looks like it could be a heavily suffused recessive pied.

Cocks will obviously be split - hens are not split for sex linked genes. Typically there is a 25% chance that the hen will show the sex linked gene (75% chance she wont at all), so I agree with what you said above. Where do you get the info saying hens will have a 25% chance to show a sex linked gene? If they have the gene, they visually express it. If they dont have the gene, they dont. If a cock is visually sex linked, ALL hens he produces will be sex linked. If he is split for it 50% of his female offspring should inherit and display the same. Where does 25% come into it? My post question is about the 25% of hens that should show the sex linked gene and the impacts on that 25% from a co-dominance gene (aka the Dark Factor). I am led to believe that it overrides the 25% sex linked gene. Most mutations are seperate and act seperately. One 'might' say that cinnamon can 'override' albino and produce a bird with faint brown markings when normally albino masks every other mutation (simply because it removes all pigment. The genes are expressing, but there is no VISUAL cue for us to go on because albino 'masks' the marking changes). Dark factor, grey factor and violet factor can all be on the same bird and all contribute to the overall look. They dont necessarily override eachother otherwise you would have very few composite varieties. I suspect that the co-dominance does impact. Is it the case that the Dark Factor would dominant the recessive sex linked gene so that it did not appear in those 25% of hens? Again, dark factor can not 'push' out any other genes or suppress their expression. Obviously if this was the case then it would be a good way to remove cinnamon and opaline from breeding hens (substituting it for a dark factor which I think is the base for some nice olives and violets) The best way to remove cinnamon and opaline from breeding hens is to breed them to cocks with no cinnamon or opaline, sell the males and keep the females. A female with sexlinked mutations can only pass that on to male chicks. All females will be free from the sex linked mutations unless the male is carrying them, as hens ONLY get sex linked mutations from the male parent. So breed your sex linked hens, keep their daughters and they will no longer have or pass on any undesired sex linked mutations. Hope this helps some You've had some great answers already.

That was my question too, i was hoping to breed chest crested budgies but i sorta gave up on the idea. The buzz past I never did find out if it is genetic or stress or feather fault or what

You have to remember that there is variation in the colouring of all birds. You can have deeply coloured sky blues that resemble pale cobalts, and so on and so forth. It could be that your bird is a deeply coloured cobalt, but im more inclined to say there is a single violet factor in there. Looks to be a goldenface SF violet opaline cobalt. The other one i am more inclined to think is a cobalt not a violet skyblue - i'll have to show you my violet skyblues sometime and you'll see what i mean.. Sometimes violet doesnt really express very well, so it 'could' be a violet cobalt, but i dont think it is. Its much easier to tell in person.

The old 'chest crest'. I posted a picture of a pet shop bird with almost the same patterning on its chest. Tracked down the breeder who said its common fault among show budgies as far as she knows, and she has seen a few of them in her own aviary over the years.

Im still not sure what you mean by markings. I assume you're not talking about the yellow, or the cheek patches. If she has some faint patterning she is most likely a poorly marked lacewing as mentioned many times before. If you want to test that you can either pair her to an albino with no cinnamon. If the chicks all come out albino or creamino, then you know she is a lacewing. Alternatively, you can breed her to a cinnamon cock. If you get all chicks male and female being cinnamon, then you also know she is a poorly marked lacewing.

Oh nooooo! Breeding condition! HORMONES! CRANKY! Get her something soft, wooden, and chewable lol. LOTS OF CHEWY THINGS. Eucalyptus leaves and branches i find are perfect amusement, entertainment, chewable toys and all sorts. NOM NOM NOM.

Is it just the high definition playing tricks on my eyes or is that beak a little scaly? Might just be that i dont look at beaks in high def normally lol.

Hmm. Chick is definately an opaline. I think dad is actually a Golden face opaline dominant pied + clearflight pied cobalt. The hen looks to be a golden face recessive pied sky blue. That or an oddly coloured light green (but i doubt it). The chick also is a pied of some sort, i would say it could be a dominant + clearflight pied like its dad. Its definately dominant pied at least.

In such situations its usually done with one of if not the best cock the breeder has. Its done to quickly establish a line/family/look and create related birds from which you can then line breed. In such cases, the breeder usually has pairs who are infertile or otherwise set up to foster in eggs, or some other means of looking after the resulting chicks. I dont personally see any benefit at all for doing it with pet budgies, or even budgies of medium to high quality. As i said, i've only really heard of it being done for a foundation or stud cock, or a super breeding cock with great features that you want to pass on.

I would love to see a line of budgies who's masks grow out like that naturally. Sort of like directional masking lol.

Very interesting nev. I suppose in someway that the clearflight is more expressive when combined with dominant pied. That or the dominant pied is strengthened by the clearflight pied since they must be pretty close on the gene locus and be co-dominant. They really do look like recessives with irises. You can see how a different mutation on the same gene (or part of the gene) would give you three similar but slightly different mutations. I hope to one day see a pied with a clear belly strip and full wing colouration. Banded pied...

Hmm. It could be a double factor dominant pied, but the patterning is very unusual for a single factor dominant pied and doesnt clearflight pied only affect the flights which would be clear anway? And i still think GF not YF2. Yellow is too golden for YF2. Edit: Just for us mutation addicts, could you show us a pick of his back and wings? Wing markings would help here

You need to post a picture of his cere that is closer and clearer. However, going from what i can see in that picture your harry is a recessive pied golden face cobalt male around 11-12 weeks of age. The cobalt looks to be a very deep colour, so he may have a violet factor as well. Does he look more purple/blue than straight blue?

They are all great but I love this photo... so adorable! Next BOM winner right there

I agree but with one addition....the depth of blue indicates sky violet to me not just skyblue Its possible, but colour is generally deeper around the rump on all birds so its difficult to say on what little blue he has since its rump colour

Hi and welcome!

Totally a hen, and again totally around the 3-4 month mark age-wise Pet shop owners will tell you birds are babies if you are looking for babies, and they will tell you birds are old enough to breed if you say you are looking for breeding birds. They will tell you whatever will sell it to you

I'd love that opaline in my aviary shannon. Great bird!

Yep, Goldenface recessive pied sky blue male.

I think the shading difference is just down to the variance in the cinnamon expression. Thats the reason you get some "poorly marked lacewings" and others that are 'strongly marked'. Cinnamon turns black pigment do brown and has a diluting affect as well, but the strength is never set in stone. You will get darker or lighter cinnamons. I would be very interested to find out if this pair can produce a violet cobalt in future.

Dont worry guys, it not just you. I think its like RIP said, it confuses most everyone and most people just wanna box it in and not go into depth to figure it out. I've done a heap of thinking and re-re-reading and im fairly sure i understand it all now. Its just down to test breeding to see if im right about my understanding.