Dean_NZ

Hi guys, back home for a couple of days before my final week being in a rural hospital. Came home to find a fertile egg that has two small indentations - clearly from the claw of the hen or cock. I candled it and i can see a beating heart and veins, so i would love to know if there is some sort of way to secure these dents and restore the barrier function of the shell. With any luck it will stay viable. I had a vague recollection of someone using a brush twink / white out on such a problem? Can anyone recommend it? Is it non-toxic? Does anyone have other methods? Cheers in advance!

Dean my birds never come in contact with the base of the nest box as the whole box is filled with about 1 1/2 to 2 inches of nesting material. It wouldn't matter what sort of box I used as they get adequate grip on the nesting material anyway and don't come near the bottom of it. They would have to be 1/2 mole to find themselves slipping on the nest box floor! I'll take a photo of the amount when I've got little chickies to demonstrate. I see you have discovered the flaw in my logic *sneaky face* Lol. But seriously, you make a good point. But that is the only exception - if you have a slippery base the only way to get around it without putting in some sort of insert, is to ensure the box is deep enough to allow a GOOD 1-2 inches of GOOD material that packs down enough to give grip. At the end of the day grip is grip, and even then you may still get splayed legs from calcium deficient chicks or heavy sitting hens. Vigilance wins the day!

Look at the two or three pin feathers that come out just above the tail. They arent tail feathers, but they are among the first coloured pin feathers to show up anywhere and they are located just above the tail feathers on the back of the budgie. I agree, looks like a normal grey. Blue series at least.

Excellent! Great to see this, and a great feeling actually knowing what you're talking about lol. Human science is part of my nursing degree so im glad to have some background on this stuff! I'd love to spend some time learning what you are learning! Perhaps some day! Keep the info coming

Mate, fantastic photos. Fantastic birds. Fantastic babies. Fantastic breeding so far! Faaaaantastic!

Dean it is probably worth mentioning that the bird I believe you are referring to was a halfsider feather duster was it not? I doubt very much whether a full feather duster would have the ability to father offspring, and in all fairness, that is the way it is meant to be. I have done a few post postmortems on feather dusters and although what you say is correct, that the stress of feather growth puts more strain on the body, in my opinion what kills them is the massive amount of food they must consume to survive. The three dusters I have looked at have all had massively swollen and infected proventriculus, gizzard and intestines. Just thought I'd bring those two things up ... On another note, I have the utmost respect for Liv, the care she is giving is a massive commitment and it shows her to be a wonderfully caring individual. Good on you Keep up the good work. I know of the half sider that fathered chicks yes, but i was referring to another bird I had heard about, a skye blue featherduster that was bred at about 6 months of age if i recall correctly. I'll try track it down, otherwise dis-regard that lol. I dont like to just say things without remembering or being able to find the source. On another note, yes i do agree it is a terrible strain on the body to produce those feathers :rofl: But im not yet at that place where i can just say "better to kill all feather dusters". If i had one in a nest, i would kill it. Because i KNOW i cannot provide for its unique nutritional needs. Its a personal choice and i respect anyone who makes a rational decision on what is best for the bird based on what care and support they can give. On a final note - hooray for you! Glad to see another knowledgable member on the boards, even better still you are from new zealand :bye: I have been away for the last 3 weeks, and will continue to be away most of the next 2 weeks so i missed welcoming you earlier. Look forward to seeing more of you. p.s thanks for the update liv!

Nesting material is only one factor in preventing splayed legs. A good grippy base is your first port of call and your best bet full stop. Nesting material only adds to the absorbancy factor in the nest and provides some additional grip, but nothing will make up for a base with no grip and I agree - these chicks all look to be splayed or developing splayed legs. You need to find some sort of wood, coconut mesh or other grippy material you can insert onto the bottom of the nests and then replace the chicks on their new footing. Live and learn :rofl: Dont beat yourself up over it. Learn a lesson, move along

Oh man! Thats terrible! So sorry to hear!

Its not dominant or recessive technically - the breeding pattern is exactly the same as a full body coloured greywing. There are 2 seperate 'normal' blue mutations on different parts of the same gene, both of which give you a 'normal blue' - nothing to do with yellowface single, double, split or anything. Both mutations are recessive to green which is the fully functional gene. Lets (just for the sake of this example) call the seperate blue mutations fault 1 (f1) and fault 2 (f2). An f1f1 bird is a normal blue, carrying 2 defective yellow pigment genes. An f2f2 bird is a normal blue, carrying 2 defective yellow pigment genes, however the defect is on a DIFFERENT part of the same gene. When you mate f1f1 with f2f2 you produce 100% f1f2 birds. Here is where the yellow comes in - the fact that the defects are on different parts of the gene means that together, they are able to partially compensate for the fault of the other. This compensation allows for some partial production of a weak yellow pigment limited to the face and tail, sometimes the wings. The genetics calculators do not seem to understand this and always get it wrong. Now to hopefully provide a helpful cross-example. Clearwing is recessive to normal (just as blue is recessive to green), and greywing is recessive to normal. Clearwings are (lets just say) clrwing/clrwing and greywings are grywng/grywng. The point im trying to make here is that clearwing and greywing are both dilute mutations, but they have seperate names. Blue fault 1 and blue fault 2 are both seperate 'blue' mutations but because they APPEAR the same, we dont give them different names (but we should). It is only when you mix clearwing and greywing that you get a interaction that produces a bird different to both clearwing and greywing - the two genes compensate and produce a stronger coloured dilute, just in the same way both blue mutations compensate to produce a blue with some yellow pigment. So technically there is no such thing as a double factor yellowface type 1, because it is just a 'normal blue' of a seperate mutation to 'the other' normal blues. This is why 'double factor' yellow face type 1's have white faces - they arent doubled up on yellow face, they are doubled up on defective genes that produce the same problem (lack of yellow) as the other mutation. Neither of them are the 'yellow' gene, they are no more or less yellow on their own. Its only when combined with the other mutation that EITHER of them can make yellow pigment.

In short yes, any yellowface type one paired to a normal will produce roughly 50% yellowface type 1 chicks.

Goldenface and yellowface type 2 are dominant mutations. Yellowface type one is a composite of two seperate blue mutations, that when combined allow limited production of yellow pigment in the face.

Thanks guys :emoticon112: Any thoughts on the crest/unusual direction feathering?

I normally wouldnt let anyone but myself care for my birds, but my studies have forced my into a 5 week out of town hospital placement totally without warning and I already had fertile eggs and chicks by then. I'll wait and see if anyone else has any thoughts :emoticon112:

Agree with liv. Although im not sure the first chick is opaline spangle? Might clear up after the moult..

okay update time. I am really greatful to have someone looking after the babies while im away, but its SO not the same. I came home today to find all sorts of food caked on their faces, covering the cere and the beaks. Im extremely concerned as one or two chicks beaks seem to be forming a bit oddly underneath that muck and i asked the person taking care of them to ensure they are CLEAN daily, but they dont want to hurt the chicks and so they cant really get rid of it properly :emoticon112: Remind me never to breed until im on holidays Anyway: Chick 1: Albino hen Chick 2: Looks to be a violet sky blue cock Chick 3: Yellowface (type 1 i think) violet cobalt cock Chick 4: Sky blue opaline hen (keep an eye out for pics of this one in a second - interesting one) Chick 5: Albino hen okay, so I havent taken 'proper' pictures of them to show you how they look just yet, i wanted to focus on directional feathering and get some comments/feedback, as well as pictures of a beak i am worried about. Heres some directional feather pictures for comment: Chick 2: Click here for larger picture Chick 3: Click here for larger picture Chick 5: (Can you see the soft red area that was immediately under the caked on muck? Lower mandible appears okay, but im a bit worried about the upper where the crusty food was, seems a tad indented - will it smooth out as she grows?) Click here for larger picture Chick 4: The interesting one! There is good news and bad news. 'Good news' is that the directional feather on this one is really odd (good news to me lol). Has anyone seen this before? Does it grow out? Or do you think it may be some sort of crestbred or crest forming? Have a look - Click here for larger picture And a different angle: Click here for larger picture Heres the other problem - im worried about the lower mandible. To me it appears to have stunted growth? It just doesnt look/feel right to me. Thoughts/comments? If it is stunted, what can i do about it to ensure it grows as best as possible? Any ways to restore it or lengthen it? As long as she can feed herself as an adult, i will be happy, but i would hate for her to have any difficulties. Have a look - Click here for larger picture And another angle, also showing how the feathers above her cere protrude in an unusual way - Click here for larger picture okay so thoughts?

What we see of the cheek patches is not what budgies see. You are talking about semi white patches, normal patches, etc etc etc. We cant see in ultraviolet so you cant really say that a half white half blue patch is somehow less visually appealing on the ultraviolet spec. There are other feathers seen on the ultraviolet spectrum as well and it would take a black light and a dark room to do some basic observations over time.

Golden face opaline greywing sky blue looks like.

Sorry guys! I'll hardly be around for the next month, im away in a rural hospital doing a clinical placement for my nursing degree. I had someone look after my birds, but came home to find only 5 of 8 babies alive. All dead babies were from same nest, i assume hen/cock werent feeding well as this is their first clutch (all eggs were infertile, they were fostering 4 eggs from a clutch of 8). The other 5 seem to be doing fine, coming into feather now. Two albinos, one YF blue, one blue. Wasnt enough light to tell what kind of blue when i got home an hour or so ago. Update soon.

Great shot nev! Congrats

I have seen a light green bird with this exact look. It was an opaline cinnamon - that much was clear, but the wing markings were dark in some patches as well just like this bird. At the time i was considering buying it because it was so unusual, part i didnt i just kept going back every week to see if it was still there and look at it further. After a bit of reading i think i narrowed it down to the fact that opaline changes the melanin distribution, so it alters the colouration of the cinnamon giving you some black and some brown instead of all brown feathers.

More pictures!!!

Im just wondering macka, if you are aware that there are records of feather dusters being kept alive through proper nutrition and care? And i know of one feather duster that went on to father offspring, and NONE of them were feather dusters. You talk about these birds suffering, or that keeping them alive is cruel in some way since they are genetically defective. I agree with GB in saying that the gene in question mainly affects there feather growth and it is that strain on the body to produce such feathers that normally kills the bird. Thats not to say the genetic fault makes them suffer or live in pain, just places them under a larger burden to eat sufficient food to maintain feather growth. If i myself had feather duster chicks, i know i would not have the time to provide them the feed necessary and i would sadly put them down. Not for any other reason than i know i cannot give them what they need, and without that care, they would be overcome nutritionally and waste away. I think what liv is doing is superbly educational, and i hope we are all open to changing our pre-conceived notions about feather dusters in light of what liv is showing us by allowing us into the lives of these little guys.

One day.. one day... Very nice splat Hope you get some great use out of all that! One day I will have a lovely big set up and lots of wonderful birds. For now im happy to plod along with a few birds here and there while i study

I would have been sad too! I remember that cock, he is gorgeous!

Gosh i hope to get something like that when i breed my two double factor violet single factor spangles together. Bring on the violet suffusion!!!