renee

Don't despair Shannon! Greywings and Clearwing varieties are completely different, a good Greywing can compete with a Normal dominant variety but Clearwings don't. :laughter: As much as I like the Blue series Greywings, this one is a ripper!

Yes, I'd say Patrick is a Green series Clearflighted Dommie Pied, in the blue series the clear flights are completely white :laughter:

If you have asked for the pedigree of these birds and if you know how to work with sex linked varieties, you would not have this problem. I have mentioned elsewhere that I had a couple of Normal Greens that when paired in 2008 produced 100% Normal Green chicks, imagine my surprise in 2009 when I discovered that the cocks in fact were Split cinnie ... Also I do recall reading elsewhere that Dave's Gearing boy was split Ino and this came as a surprise to its breeder as the Ino gene hadn't popped out in many generations. okay as promised pics. It is a warming up to be a hot day and so they are not at their glorious best, also first time in a show cage - no matter In 2009 breeding season I focused on Mask as the main feature I wanted to breed into my birds. My Recessive Pied line that I worked so hard on last year is 100% Manno and Armstrong bloodlines or descendants, whichever way you want to look at it. Here are a couple of examples-100% Manno Red runger bred in July 09. Armstrong x Manno Blue runger bred September 09 I can see the Armstrong features, can you? Unless I come up with a better plan these 2 will go together in August 2010. Now for a few of the Blue boys. All related, 2 brothers and a cousin sharing an amazing Violet Jeff Lloyd boy as their Grandfather. Blue rungers just finally finished coming through their first moult. Cobalt (yes he is panting ... ) Violet Dommie Pied These boys are a couple of generations away from where I would like them to be. I find that with the second moult they will pop a blow but none of these are really possessing directional feather so while they will go back to the sisters they also need to go out to probably my Spangle line or even a cracker of a Normal Blue of Wayne Retzcalf's that I picked up at SWBC's written auction in December ... dunno, I will have to wait and watch them mature before making up my mind.

:question: Precisely, the top breeders do that. And I am very fortunate to have bred my own Dilutes and a lovely Blue boy. Plus I have a couple ready to breed in next year.Photos to come!

I appreciate that many of you may be wondering exactly how my pairing and purchasing decisions are made. :question: So I will give you an example, photos to follow tomorrow I am a great fan of Jeff Lloyds' Blue series birds. They have a look about them that I find appealing. In my experience those here in the West who do buy his for example, "amazing Violet" at auction often put that bird to their best birds. The same goes for Gearing Inos, Armstrong Rec Pieds or Spangles/DF Spangles, Manno Rec Pieds,etc. So while I have saved my pennies and tried to buy one or two of the elite specialist birds I have also tried to get their descendants from other breeders and then put them together. It has taken me a while, but this past year I was lucky to get a few missing pieces and as a result I am very happy with the results. I have also mentioned elsewhere that I have finally reached the stage where I have bred a bird worthy in my eyes to be a Foundation bird. It doesn't happen overnight, in fact it has taken me a few years and even if I am discerning I know that quite a few of my birds are dropping their wings and I need to address that next year.

Nope. I have rarely followed up on that. Perhaps if I was planning on on-selling and I just wanted to confirm my hunch. I am a visual breeder of families. I trust my gut before anything anyone says, I have learnt that from the best. That doesnt make sense. Even the biggest and best show breeders wouldnt buy a visual bird without also getting background. And why would you seek out background based on hunches ....only if you are onselling a bird ? Well I really don't care if it makes sense to anybody but myself, so far (touch wood) it is working for me. Mostly I buy direct from the breeder and I say, "I like that bird" and they either say "Yes, you can have it for $xxx or No". If the bird in question has features I aim to put into one of my specialist varieties I will ask if it is carrying anything. But mainly pre 2009 I was aiming for the bird not the variety so I wasn't too fussed. Probably if I had asked more questions back then I wouldn't have bred so many bloomin Cinnie Greens this year - but by the same token I am very happy with the look of those birds which is why there are so many of them left in my aviary. Besides I have come to terms with the uncertainty of the sex linked genes and how fricken impossible prior to actual breeding to know whether your cock is split or not.... :question: As for hunches, that is in reference to these 'closely related to Champion' write ups you get on auction catalogues .... with time I have reaslised the significant difference there is between a 'nest sibling' to 'a half sibling' to a 'member of an award winning family' .... genes are funny things and sometimes it really is a case of pot luck. Of course you soon get the picture when you breed. I didn't mean it like that. I buy from breeders who buy from the same breeders. It really isn't that hard in this State to do so, there are a handful of really top breeders and they swap birds amongst themselves any way so basically, so long as you are discerning, you get to recognise 'so and so's bird'. Each stud has a "look". I pair for complimentary features and relatedness, ie. family. I would like to add that we are extremely lucky in this State with the gorgeous quality of birds available and I have never had the inclination to look elsewhere.

Nope. I have rarely followed up on that. Perhaps if I was planning on on-selling and I just wanted to confirm my hunch. :laughter: I am a visual breeder of families. I trust my gut before anything anyone says, I have learnt that from the best. :happy-dancing:

And as you well know I do my very best to do that !!!! But at some point I feel compelled to draw a line in the sand and say my boundless generosity does know some boundaries. :happy-dancing:

I did not buy those birds off you to onsell Renee. I dont do things like that. I had them long enough to see their potential or not and as they didnt cut the mustard ( and you are aware of that as I told you they didnt turn out well ) I GAVE them away. Do not assume anything...you will, in all likelihood be wrong when assuming what people do or dont do.Of course they didn't cut mustard ~ they were slated for the Pet Shop as I told you at the time! In fact I was privately horrified you wanted them at all. I only hope that the people you gave them to were not aspiring Show budgie breeders and under no illusions as to their quality. :happy-dancing: Indeed, why bother with calling a spade a spade when you can use an automated shoveler. :rofl:

Dave, as you well know I am simply putting forward how I feel on this topic right now. :happy-dancing: I am quite confident that any person that has had anything to do with me and my budgies will say how helpful I am and how on many occasion I have bent over backwards to help. :laughter:

Thankfully you have reached the level this year where you do not need to rely on others' generosity. :rofl: Of course it occurred to me that you just wanted to on-sell those birds, after the fact unfortunately other wise I would have asked for $30, just like the Pet Shop. :happy-dancing: We live and learn .... and in the meantime Live and Let Live!

In the scheme of things, no, not really. :laughter: I just dislike being taken for a fool because I tried to help someone out. :happy-dancing: I will get over it and in time reassess. :rofl:

Well I had birds from you once, and then we had Liv over here from S.A. Chances are high she passed one on. And as you dont seem to keep records of your culls....I guess the new owner will never know anything from you. Well as it happens my record keeping is a little bit better than that. :rofl: And of the 9 hens I gifted you at $10 each it just so happens that this bird was a cock. :happy-dancing: Moreover it was a bird bred a full year before those ones.

I have an excel spreadsheet, I tried using the Budgie program but had issues with ring numbers so gave up. :happy-dancing:

Of course you don't, nor do I and have not done so for some years now. :happy-dancing: I am still at a loss to explain how one of my birds ended up in SA of all places! :laughter:

Perhaps instead of asking the questions you would like to explain how you do things? That way this debate can be more inclusive instead of so one way. Renee..............you opened this "can of peas" all by yourself by your post. On the contrary Kaz, I am most interested in how you acquire Show budgies! Do you, like me, just buy direct from breeders and at auctions or do you still trawl the Pet Shops hoping to pick up a bargain for yourself or friend?

Perhaps instead of asking the questions you would like to explain how you do things? That way this debate can be more inclusive instead of so one way.

I have my top breeders, and then I have the rest. Personally I am proud of all my bred birds but even through my pink tinted glasses I have to acknowledge that only a percentage will reach my standards and funnily enough they always seem to come from the same birds or a family of birds. From the "possibles" I usually make up my mind before they are released into the aviary and by that time I have been tracking them from the nest. I always say I don't pay much attention to my chicks till they start to feather up, but from that moment I am watching very carefully. If a "surprise" grabs my attention then I pay more attention to it! For example, this year nothing clicked for me till well into the breeding season and I am on record saying that there aren't too many Red Rungers that I'll be keeping. Check out my breeding journal, I put my timetable ahead of my birds' breeding condition and learnt the hard way. But then I re-jigged some pairings and got a couple of mighty fine related birds to my top breeders and kerboom! Bingo, I am very happy with my Blue rungers and they will be going nowhere any time soon!

Good for you!

Not those destined for the Pet Shop, they get bought on looks alone!

There are good Pet Shops ... and then there are the rest. Ratzy, you did the right thing - pity the poor guy who knew best and will be sitting in front of a bird cage for some time to come trying to get that bird to say something!

The birds I breed for myself, yes. And when questioned about one of my birds that I have sold directly to someone I have always provided details to them, I might add that some people just do not ask - as is their prerogative. In fact lately I have not waited to be asked about my bred birds that I put up for auction and have provided full disclosure, such as "Mother to my Best in Show - tends to sit heavy: Monitor!" or "Feather Plucker!", etc.

I found this, hope it helps http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....p;hl=brown+cere

I totally understand what you are saying. That is how I used to feel. Alas I do no longer ... maybe in time I will reassess, in the meantime that is just how I feel about the matter.

Well let's try and find the silver lining in all of this Right now it doesn't look too good BUT you have been giving her doxy as the vet instructed to combat any underlining illness. You have Clearwing at hand to give you good advice. And you have experience in looking after birds and you will absolutely do what is best for your beautiful hen.