Elly

You can add these pictures plus your question about mutation in the mutation section in a different post (since it is off topic in this post)...and you will get more responses too. I love how both the parents are together in the box sweet.

No what I was saying originally was that Lucifer must be carrying the TC gene if along with the hen being TC if they got both female and male TC ..is that correct? But then you said Lucifer could be carring the ino and not TC gene..so I got confused :hap:

:hap: good one Nerwen Kaz you should post this picture get some ideas for captions he is such a doll

excellent point :hap:

Wonderful pics :hap:

Pretty used to do it to me and then he did it to Merlin :hap:

((hugs))

Accidents happen and I have preening toys that and even frays on the edges of ropes that hold up the swings. Rope perches are woven pretty tight, I know mine is and has never frayed but then I don't have over zealous chewers either you know. You can cut any frayed ends on all rope toys is best and if you still don't feel comfortable there are so many toys on the market you can provide him . Welcome to BBC, look forward to seeing pictures :ausb:

It is the same cage some come with 1 door and others with 2. Mine has one door and you can get this same cage on e-bay if you can't find it in the store. You can PM nathan to get the name of the store as the admin doesn't like store names posted on the boards for liability reasons (yes I know some people still do it just addressing :ausb:).

Here is information that will help you NOW to set up a hosptial vet and a link to find an AVIAN vet. I hope all is okay and he makes it. Australia: http://www.vetafarm.com.au/avian_vets.asp UK/Other: http://www.theparrotsocietyuk.org/avian-vets.shtml http://www.parrotpassionsuk.com/Advice/Uk_Avian_Vets.htm Why hurry? Budgies in the wild that show signs of illness, injury, or other weakness are the first to be picked off by predators. Because of this, they instinctively "hide" their troubles for as long as possible. If you've ever watched a budgie die (and I hope you've been spared the sight) you'll know that until the point where they can no longer move, they attempt to look as normal and alive as possible. It's extremely sad to watch, but it's what they're designed to do. As a result, a sick budgie will make itself appear healthy and by the time you actually notice that something is up, the bird is feeling extremely bad. Sometimes they show no signs until they're on the brink of death. This is why ANY change warrants a phone call to your avian vet at the very least. It costs nothing to make the call (well, depending on your phone plan) and your vet can let you know if he/she thinks the bird needs to be brought in and when. Making an appointment as soon as you notice something amiss is the best course of action but a phone call is better than wasting time trying to guess yourself. Which brings me to another good point: Googling the symptoms or asking people on the internet will usually end in the answer "It could be any number of things." This is because symptoms of illness in budgies are very general and can be pinned on many many different things. It's pointless to try and guess the illness based on symptoms and even if you could, you can't treat it without a vet. What can I do at home? Until you get your budgie to the vet, separate him from all your other birds. It's a good idea to keep a small spare cage around to use as a hospital cage. Put this in a warm, quiet room. If your budgie is looking very puffed, he/she is cold and trying to stay warm. You can put the cage in your bathroom letting the hot water run in the bath/shower so that he can get warmth from the steam. You can also place a heating pad under the cage. Set it on low and underneath a towel. Place the cage on top of the towel. Heat lamps can work as well but with any method, make sure the budgie isn't going to get uncomfortably hot. We're not trying to cook the budgie, just keep the chill away. The perches in the hospital cage should be low. If your budgie is having trouble perching, place something soft (that won't snag his toenails) in the bottom of the cage. Food and water should also be offered at the bottom of the cage so that they're more easily accessed by a poorly budgie. Won't the trip to the vet stress my budgie too much? The trip will stress your bird but it won't kill him. On the other hand, the illness/injury afflicting him could very well kill him. Which would you rather be: Stressed for part of a day or dead? The only budgies I've heard of dying on the way to the vet are the ones that were dying before they even got started on the trip. What if my budgie starts looking better? You still need to make the trip to the vet. Many budgies start perking up only to die later anyway. At the very least, call your avian vet and explain the situation to him/her in detail so that they can make this judgement for you. Don't simply assume it was a "24 hour virus." Budgies are not people. They're not even mammals and this should be kept in mind when we think of their health and behavior relating to their health. As much as we'd like to relate to them in this way, we have no idea what they're feeling, especially with an animal that instinctively hides its bad feelngs.

clapping hands, sighing a bit of relief, fingers still crossed.....you littles ones can make it...kiss from Merlin

okay so.... the ino male with a TC female can produce both male and female TC? Trying to get it straight sorry if I am so dense here today

The cuttlebone I keep in there and shave it until it is gone you don't need to wash it because it will absorb the water and dissolved so just keep it higher where they will not poo on it . Your welcome I hope I have helped and always ask , I don't mind.

OMG that last picture says it all it really need to be the Caption Contest (Laughing out loud) and have people put up saying. He is just so cute and funny Kaz. I have to laugh it is like he ate too much and just fell right over . Awesome cage set-up there too for them.

Look forward to watching your journey and that is a great reason to breed improving the lines for others . There is excellent information about breeding in our FAQ's which are located at the time. I encourage you to read. We have wonderful members who breed on a small scale, to a larger scale for either pet or show budgies. So there is a vast knowledge on BBC so please always feel free to ask away.

I pm'd you back Harrison's is the best from what I understand that is what Merlin is on. Yep I crush them put them right over anything he is eating and I even dip his brocolli in it . Luke loves millet so you can start by chopping it up, putting it in a bowl and putting a small piece of millet spray on the food it will show him that the plate is not going to hurt him that is why he doesn't go by it. When you have established that you can then sprinkle the millet in the veggies/fruits a GREAT way to get them start eating. Once he starts eating from the bowl on a regular basis seed, pellets or veggies then you can take the side feeders away. Everything is gradual budgies will starve themselves so do it gradually. Another thing that I started doing is I take the cuttlebone and shave a little of it on top too because neither of my boys ever chewed on cuttlebones. As for the vitamins in the water and such I heard because they don't drink much water that it is not the best way to give it to them (everyone is different though). A vitamin block or mineral block my boys don't do, even seed treats like the honey ones they didn't chew at. ODD huh...I was told I need to get a female to teach them the ropes (Laughing out loud). But millet CRAZED for it just like Luke.

When you get the okay from the vet here is a good way to start to convert and feathers has givin you excellent advice. How to convert to a new diet: This will be a gradual process and will take a few days or up to several months to switch over. Don't get discouraged if one brand is not accepted, birds are much like children and have similar likes and dislikes as far as taste and texture. Below are some helpful hints on how to covern your pet over. Try crushing pellets to a sand like texture and place over the current diet. Your pet will have to sift through the new diet before finding the old diet and will start developing a "taste for the pellets. Mix the crushed pellets into any soft foods/tablefoods that your pet enjoys After you see some interest in the new diet actual pellets can be introduced Always try to keep trace of weight during diet changes. If you can't do this at home then watch for any major decreases in droppings, which may indicate the bird is not eating well. If you see this you may have to revert back a step for a short-time. NEVER TRY TO CONVERT "COLD TURKEY" BY TRYING TO FORCE THE NEW DIET. Most birds don't know that pellets are food and my refuse to eat them and could potentially starve themselves.

Vonn, I felt the same say about Pretty when I though what could I have done more. I knew the knowledge partially but I didn't realize the importance. I thought I was doing everything right but I wasn't. Pellets if you can get them really need to be fed. Do your research and work on conversion it is yes a slow process but worth it. Here are some information I pulled off of BBC for you: by eterri: Someone in another group recommended this book and I honestly can't say enough good things about it. I haven't even read it thoroughly but just flipping through the pages made me want to skip work just to sit at home and read it. It is VERY detailed and provides information on symptoms of a poor diet, anatomy of birds, nutritional charts, etc. I think it's must-have for any bird owner as it gives you a lot of the information necessary to decide what diet is best for your bird and how to spot problems if they arise. Once I've finished it I'll try to update this with a proper review. As of now, this is my opinion upon skimming it. It's very good, lots of great pictures, and easy to understand. It's published by Barron's, the title is Feeding Your Pet Bird, and the ISBN is 0-8120-1521-5 The author is Petra M. Burgmann, DVM by eterri Homemade Healthy Budgie Grain/Seed Mix I know on parrot_lovers people have talked about making their own seed/grain mix by getting stuff at Whole Foods or similar stores. Here's a recipe for such a mix... Make your own Budgie grain/seed mix: 1 part Quinoa 1 part hulled yellow Millet 1 part safflower seed 1 part Canary Seed 1 part thistle seed 1 part red proso 1 part white proso 2 parts oat groats 1 part amaranth 1 part flax seed Mix them all together and there you go. Happy and very HEALTHY budgies. Now this, incombination with a "Bouquet Salade" wired or clipped daily inside their house.....you have provided an EXCELLENT budgie diet. -Gloria at Whitewings Farm I'll add that budgies should get equal portions of a good seed mix and a good pellet as well as healthy veggies (high in vitamin A). Legumes are great to offer and there are many cooked mixes on the market now. Wheatgrass is another very nutritious food that you can offer a few times a week. Basically, they need a large variety of healthy foods in order to get everything they need. Feeding budgies properly is no simple matter (unfortunately). Here is the whole link http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....wtopic=7533&hl= The book is exellent, do a search in the food and nutrition section many of your questions have been answered by what people do. Read the Harrison Manual I posted it is excellent I have it in print. Please don't feel bad...he knows you love him and you wouldn't be here asking questions, taking him to the vet etc...if you didn't. You are an excellent budgie owner.

then how did Kaz get clearbodies out of the clutch if he wasn't carrying it or did I misinterprete what Kaz wrote

so what you are saying is a clearbody gene x an ino gene would create male and female clearbodies? This is where I am confused why Lucifer wouldn't have clearbody.

I remember seeing budgies with colors through their wings but being told if they had the V that is what would make them the opaline not the coloring in the wings. Interesting theory.

Gorgeous budgies and I agree the baby flat on it's back with the legs in the air is way cute

Glad she has bounced back, just keep an eye on her . Continue to keep her nice and warm to ensure whatever she may have had if anything is really gone.

Wow she looks like a different budgies, I wonder if Merlin would use a wheel?

It would be more likely he is carrying an Ino gene, but the only way to check that is with a breeding to a normal and getting an ino baby. The other gene is the Easley Clearbody, which removes the pigment more evenly from the body than a TC does. I have yet to dig into the inheritance's of this gene. Why would he be carring the ino gene vs the clearbody gene - need this more explained to me Yes I remembe the Easley one I just assumed we were talking about the Texas Clearbody