Pied, But Which Type?

[JvK 0]

Today I took some pictures of my first chicks of the season.

I'm not sure about the pied-type. Especially of the oldest one.

So please help me out!

 

The parents:

Albino YF2 cock x Grey dom. pied hen. Both 08 birds.

I bought them both last year, so I don't know much about them.

 

They have 6 chicks. This is their first clutch ever.

I was suprised to see pied chicks, because I wasn't expecting the cock to be split rec. pied or dom. pied. There is a normal grey chick, so the cock isn't double factor pied.

 

Chick 1:

Grey pied YF2 cock. But recessive or dominant? Or both (I think that's possible too.) The pied pattern looks pretty different from mothers wing marks.

 

There is another pied chick, a little younger. Blue YF2 pied

 

These are the other chicks, for anybody who is interested!

(The grey chick is the same one).

 

So, any thoughts?

[*libby* 0]

You've got albinos and the pieds are recessives

 

Nice looking clutch there! Well done!

 

By The Way your hen is a Recessive, not a Dom pied

Edited April 14, 2009 by *libby*

[**KAZ** 0]

Mother is recessive pied so no surprises when you have recessive chicks.

I was suprised to see pied chicks, because I wasn't expecting the cock to be split rec. pied or dom. pied. There is a normal grey chick, so the cock isn't double factor pied. So, any thoughts?

cock cannot be split dom pied. he can be split recessive. Mother is recessive pied not dom pied.

[JvK 0]

Thanks for the reactions!

Cock could be single factor dom. pied, but not visable because of albino.

That was my doubt.

 

But you agree with libby that chicks are rec. pied, KAZ?

 

** Yeah I know the mother is rec. pied. I made a mistake**

[Dave_McMinn 0]

TO get recessive chicks, Dad has to be split recessive.

 

So you bred a recessive pied grey hen to a YF2 Albino male masking recessive pied and you have ended up with

 

1. YF2 Recessive pied grey (mauve) chick (cock)

2. YFS Cobalt Recessive pied chick (cock)

3. Albino Hen

4. Mauve normal (cock)

 

Here is my question. If you breed an albino male to a recessive pied, and the male chick gets the ino gene from Dad and the recessive pied chick from Mum, will it look recessive pied even though it only has one recessive pied gene? Which is dominant over the other? Since ino is sex linked, does that rule our the Ino look in this case, and since the recessive needs to 2 genes for dominance, what happens?

[Kazzy 0]

Great looking chicks! I always love mixed matings and their outcomes. I bet you were excited when they feathered up. Lucky you!

 

Dave: let me try to answer your questions

 

TO get recessive chicks, Dad has to be split recessive. Yes I agree

So you bred a recessive pied grey hen to a YF2 Albino male masking recessive pied (He isn't really "masking" the pied gene :- He is split for pied (He has 1 recessive pied gene since the mating produced a visual norm) "Masking" indicates that if he wasn't ino then he would be visually pied, which in this case he wouldn't be and you have ended up with

 

1. YF2 Recessive pied grey (mauve) chick (cock)

2. YFS Cobalt Recessive pied chick (cock)

3. Albino Hen

4. Mauve normal (cock) This chick will be split for recessive pied (carrying 1 recessive pied gene)

 

Here is my question. If you breed an albino male to a recessive pied, and the male chick gets the ino gene from Dad and the recessive pied chick from Mum, will it look recessive pied even though it only has one recessive pied gene? Which is dominant over the other? Since ino is sex linked, does that rule our the Ino look in this case, and since the recessive needs to 2 genes for dominance, what happens? To be a "visual" recessive pied the chick needs to have 2 recessive pied genes, however a bird with 2 recessive pied genes and the presence of the ino gene will look like an ino but "mask" the recessive markings. The parents genetics suggests that the ino chick could be masking 2 recessive pied genes. Mating of this chick with a recessive pied hen would tell this. But at the very least the albino chick is masking at least 1 pied gene

Edited April 15, 2009 by KAZ

[Dave_McMinn 0]

Great looking chicks! I always love mixed matings and their outcomes. I bet you were excited when they feathered up. Lucky you!

 

Dave: let me try to answer your questions

 

TO get recessive chicks, Dad has to be split recessive. Yes I agree

So you bred a recessive pied grey hen to a YF2 Albino male masking recessive pied (He isn't really "masking" the pied gene :- He is split for pied (He has 1 recessive pied gene since the mating produced a visual norm) "Masking" indicates that if he wasn't ino then he would be visually pied, which in this case he wouldn't be Yes, sorry, that is what I meant.

 

 

and you have ended up with

 

1. YF2 Recessive pied grey (mauve) chick (cock)

2. YFS Cobalt Recessive pied chick (cock)

3. Albino Hen

4. Mauve normal (cock) This chick will be split for recessive pied (carrying 1 recessive pied gene) Yes, sorry I forgot to say this. You will note that this chick, although split to recessive pied, does not carry the customary patch on its head. Interesting.

 

Here is my question. If you breed an albino male to a recessive pied, and the male chick gets the ino gene from Dad and the recessive pied chick from Mum, will it look recessive pied even though it only has one recessive pied gene? Which is dominant over the other? Since ino is sex linked, does that rule our the Ino look in this case, and since the recessive needs to 2 genes for dominance, what happens? To be a "visual" recessive pied the chick needs to have 2 recessive pied genes, however a bird with 2 recessive pied genes and the presence of the ino gene will look like an ino but "mask" the recessive markings.

 

 

But what if the bird is a cock bird with one recessive gene and the one ino. I am guesing the ino is on a different allele so whilst the father passes on the ino gene, he has to pass something else on right? This is my point

 

I = ino

r = recessive

 

Dad Mum

II rr

 

If they bred, and produced male that was Ir, what would it look like?

 

The hens would all be Ino's, as the ino is sex linked, so in the above case, all the hens would be albinos, but what would the boys be. Not albinos, as they need two Ino's, and not recessive, as they need 2 receiisve genes. i am thinking the mauve normal is the Ir. Am I right?

Edited April 15, 2009 by KAZ

[Kazzy 0]

But what if the bird is a cock bird with one recessive gene and the one ino. I am guesing the ino is on a different allele so whilst the father passes on the ino gene, he has to pass something else on right? This is my point

 

I = ino

r = recessive

 

Dad Mum

II rr

 

If they bred, and produced male that was Ir, what would it look like?

 

The hens would all be Ino's, as the ino is sex linked, so in the above case, all the hens would be albinos, but what would the boys be. Not albinos, as they need two Ino's, and not recessive, as they need 2 receiisve genes. i am thinking the mauve normal is the Ir. Am I right? Yes you are right.... all males from this mating will be split ino's..... but don't forget the recessive gene from the dad also. They are on different alles (different parts of the genetic thread). It is quite possible that the father passes a recessive pied gene also (since he is split). Therefore .... the visually pied chicks from this mating will always be cocks, because all hen chicks will be visually ino's. And the norm chick is a cock split for ino & recessive pied.

 

Edited April 15, 2009 by KAZ

[*libby* 0]

Dad's not masking recessive pied Dave, he's split or else all bubs would've been recessives

[Dave_McMinn 0]

Dad's not masking recessive pied Dave, he's split or else all bubs would've been recessives

 

I know he is split, not masking. I corrected myself in my reply about 40 minutes ago.

 

I suppose it comes down to what did Dad pass on?

[*libby* 0]

hehe my bad :hi:

[nubbly5 0]

But what if the bird is a cock bird with one recessive gene and the one ino. I am guesing the ino is on a different allele so whilst the father passes on the ino gene, he has to pass something else on right? This is my point

 

I = ino

r = recessive

 

Dad Mum

II rr

 

If they bred, and produced male that was Ir, what would it look like?

 

The hens would all be Ino's, as the ino is sex linked, so in the above case, all the hens would be albinos, but what would the boys be. Not albinos, as they need two Ino's, and not recessive, as they need 2 receiisve genes. i am thinking the mauve normal is the Ir. Am I right? Yes you are right.... all males from this mating will be split ino's..... but don't forget the recessive gene from the dad also. They are on different alles (different parts of the genetic thread). It is quite possible that the father passes a recessive pied gene also (since he is split). Therefore .... the visually pied chicks from this mating will always be cocks, because all hen chicks will be visually ino's. And the norm chick is a cock split for ino & recessive pied.

 

 

Kazzy, it's easier to think of each mutation seperately and they are usually expressed seperately so an Albino cock that is split for recessive would be expressed as:

 

XiXi, Rr (as it comprises of 2 different alleles as you mentioned, and ino is sex linked so is determined on the X gene). The hen is expressed as XnY, RR in respect to these 2 different alleles.

 

So the chicks can be expressed as:

 

XnXi, Rr - male split for ino AND split for recessive

XiY, Rr - female visual ino AND split for recessive

XnXi, rr - male split for ino AND visual recessive

XiY, rr - female visual and recessive (but MASKED by ino)

 

In relation to these two different mutations.

 

Hope that makes sense!

[Daz 0]

If the cock was masking Recessive pied. Alll the chicks would be Recessive. Pieds. As he is Albino all the hens will be Albinos and all chicks would either be Recessive Pied or Split to recessive pied.

 

As you have paired an Albino (blue ino) to a grey you will find most will be grey and you will get some blues.