RIPbudgies

Another option. It could be Crop Impaction if it cutting off the windpipe. It is considered serious

MB suggestion is exactly what I was about to suggest. It is sounding a little like the Crop has ruptured.

It is a little hard to tell because the quality of the pics. It seems to appear though as if it is full of air. The wet feathering is that due to any fluids leaking from the site?

send them to me as I am online right now. (Pm me and I will PM you my email address)

Chick # 1 - Single Factor Goldenface Split for Ino and Greywing or Clearwing Cobalt ?? (Don't know sex?) RIPbudgies: Is a GF(sf) Coablt. Wait till you know the sex to figure out what the SL recessives are Chrissy: I don't think I understand this part... I'll have to read up more on this... I knew hens couldn't be split for opaline or Ino, but I don't know the Greywing/Clearwing rules? SL = Sex Linked. Until the sexes of the chicks are known you cannot say which ones are split to a sex linked mutation. Because the cock is split for Ino there is a 25% chance that any cocks could be Split Ino. As for the Greywing/Clearwing rules. Order of Dominance is thus – Greywing, Clearwing, Dilute. They are all variations (Alleles) of the Dilute locus and their genetic terms are Greywing = dilgw Clearwing = dilcw Dilute = dil A bird can only carry two of the three alleles at one time. Chick #4 from pair #1 - Albino Split Greywing or Clearwing Cobalt Hen?? RIPbudgies: This is looking a lot like a GF(sf) Albino Chrissy: What does Goldenface Albino mean... will it still be all white when fully feathered or will it be white with a yellow face? When I put the Albino next to the Lutino the Albino's head and tail look yellow? Maybe it's just my lighting in the house. Because the bird is a blue series bird i.e. Cobalt and carrying the Ino gene it is then termed Albino. If the bird where from the green series it would be a Lutino. Because the bird is also a Goldenface(sf) it will have yellow all over the body. This is a prime example to show the extent of yellow distribution and depth of colour that is there when everything else has been stripped away. When she goes through her moult the yellow will darken a little more. Chick # 5 from Pair #1 - Normal Split for Greywing or Clearwing Cobalt?? RIPbudgies: I am not sure if I can see yellow of the head of this baby as the photo is too blurry Chrissy: To be honest RIP I thought I saw yellow too, but I thought it was just the lighting... I even went back in the box and pulled him again after I saw the picture and still thought I saw a bit of yellow?? Maybe another GF Maybe, give it a few more days. Chick # 6 from pair #1 - Normal Split for Greywing or Clearwing Mauve RIPbudgies: This is a Cobalt. This photo also is blurry and I am not sure if I am sseing Yellow on the head. I also think these photos were taken in incandesant light which will yellow up the image. Chrissy: Is this cobalt because dad is sky blue and mom is mauve... the middle is cobalt? Is that how you figure cobalt instead of mauve? Can a sky blue and a mauve have a mauve chick? Is that possible? I'm going to have to watch chick 5 and 6 over the next few days for the yellow on the head maybe I have three GF(sf) chicks? But for a bit there my Albino looked yellow on his head and I thought that was the lighting too so I didn't think the normals where yellow, I thought it was just me. All the birds from pair #1 will be Cobalt because it has inherited only one dark factor which is from the mum. Check out the dark factor article it does explain it for you. http://www.doves.com.au/dkfactors.html Chick # 7 from pair #2 - Dominant Pied Split for Opaline Light Green Cock RIPbudgies: Yep and I am leaning to Dark Green Chrissy: Can you tell me what you look at that helps you tell dark vs. Rump feathers.

Neville that is quite correct. But there has been many uses for the same words within the fancy over the past 100 years and it has created a lot of confusion. It seems the show world just loves to pigeon hole each variety yet when it comes to correct scientific nomenclature which for the Yellowfaces is: (b1 - b2 - bayf) they havn't got a clue. So we have to go somewhere inbetween so all peoples can understand. Sometimes the problem is people set in their ways and that information that has been around for 30 years plus just does not get deseminated.

There is a "bleed" for want of a better word. It is perfectly correct for this variety. On the show bench it is considered a fault. The fact is the show standard and reality are worlds apart.

Dutch Pied and Continental Clearflight are one and the same. Their also appeares to be a Frosting factor involved with I was reseaching before giving up the budgies. They are also highly variable in their variegation. Danish Pied and Recessive Pied are one and the same. They were also referred to in the past as Harlequins. They do not have an iris ring. They are bred with Dutch Pieds to produce Dark Eyed Clears. Dominant Pied also known as Australian Dominant Pied, Banded Pied and even Clearflighted Pied. They can be quite variable in their Variegation. All three of these pieds can show a spot on the back of the head although with Danish it is almost never seen due to the heavy variagation. Dominant Pieds pattern tend to be confined most of the time to the bottom half of the bird and the flights and tail feathers. Some show a band across the body and at one time were considered a seperate pied type as did the ones that showed clear-flights only (owned such a bird back in 1984). Dutch tends to keep the pied to the upper part of the body and the melanin has been reduced a fraction and sometimes gives flights the appearance similar to that of the Texas Clearbody. Danish is fairly consistent in the pied pattern distribution but on occasion I have seen some that almost looked like Normals. To avoid confusion and in light of current research around the world by some very notable breeders I have always used Dutch, Danish or Recessive and Dominant Pied terms for the three mutations. It must be remembered that just because a show standard says a bird must be something it does not necessarily mean that it is. A show standard is just that a standard by which to judge a bird. Not every bird can fit the class exactly if they did every body would be winners.

I see there is a whole lot of confusion about Yellowfaces in general on this forum. Yellowface Mutant I (YF M1) otherwise known as an English Yellowface or Creamface. On this forum seems to be reffered to as YF Type 1. Goldenface (GF) otherwise known as Australian Yellowface. On this forum seems to be reffered to as YF Type 2. Fact Green, Yellowface, Goldenface and Blue are Allelomorphs. A Yellowface is the result of a gene mutation in the Psittacin pigment. In a Blue bird the Gene that codes for the production of this pigment is switched off. When a gene for yellowface is coded for the gene becomes partially activated. The amount of yellow to see will depend on which yellowface mutant is involved. Single Factor YF M1 gives the appearance of a blue bird with a cream/yellow face. Depending on the blue involved as to how much of the yellow is retained in the feathers and therefore remains visable. This will give a slightly sea-green affect on a Sky. Cobalts and Mauve do show a little of the yellow coming through but it does not stand out as much. The grey especially if it is a Light Grey will also show some yellow. Double Factor YF M1 has the visual appearance of any blue or grey bird. Genetically it carries two Yellowface genes. Single Factor GF has the deepest yellow face the intensity of the yellow is more than double that of the YF M1. Sky blues really do look sea/green. Cobalts are aqua/blue Mauve due to the depth of colour seem to get away with it better. Greys are almost grey green in appearance. Double Factor GF has the same depth of colour in the mask but it is restricted more to the face. It does however still "bleed" into the body but it is just not as noticable. Regarding the use of the words "Type" as to Yellowfaces I will quote from the book "Rainbow Budgerigars and constituent varieties" by Ken Gray. For anybody who has this book. Page 19 Paragraph 2 Mutant 1 and Mutant 2 These were orignally known as Yellowface Type 1 and Type 2, but as the word 'type' already has other meanings within the Fancy, in order to avoid confusion they later became known as Yellowface Mutant 1 and Mutant 2. This change was first used by Taylor & Warner in their book Genetics for Budgerigar Breeders. Now in his book this reference to Mutant 2 is to the Yellowface originating from Keston Bird Farms. These birds were identical in breeding pattern to our GF. In fact Ken Gray has not been able to deduce that the Mutant 2 and GF are the same and he says further in his book that "It is best, with the extent of present day knowledge on the subject, to regard it as a separate mutation, especially as we know that it comes from australia."

Congrats Casper Rose :rofl:

Yellow: Foreground bird - Opaline Sky hen Yellow: Background bird - Texas Clearbody Opaline Grey Green cock Uno: Recessive Pied Light Green (cock?) Two: Spangle Sky (cock?) Six: Cinnamon Grey Green hen Robin: Spangle Light Green cock Pinnochio: Normal Cobalt cock Peace: Creamface(sf) Opaline Sky (hen?) Orin: Spangle Goldenface(sf) Sky (cock?) Lemon: Spangle Light Green (cock?) Halowine: Normal Dark Green hen

Go to a place that deals in all types of birds. They should have the info you require as in order to sell some birds they must sight a license. I know the rules here in WA are quite strict. When I moved back to WA from SA I had a Sulphur Crest. I had to get an export permit from SA an import permit from WA and to top it off I had to do a Statutory Declaration for WA. In WA the Sulphur Crest is a declared pest. The Galah was simply added to the import and export permits no problem. I also had a chicken which I thought would be no problem at all till I got to the border and they were gonna take her off us. No way. I had to go straight to Ag department in Midland and get a blood sample taken, needless to say she past.

It would not be a Lacewing as there was no crossover between the Cinnamon and Ino gene. All those mutations are there but they are masked by the effect of the Ino. In my example I used those mutations because they all have a different effect. So the bird is visually a Dominant Pied Opaline Cinnamon Ino but you cannot see any of them except the Ino effect. Does that explain it better for you. It is not the easiest thing to grasp.

I did a little surfing over at Pascal's page (origin of the photo) and took a trip to his photobucket. He has apicture of a pied hen with a sky cock. This hen is a Dutch Pied has an eye ring not to mention the typical feather frosting and melanin distribution. He does not from what I can tell have a Danish in the place. The hen is shown feeding and Albino and in another nest box there is an Albino with a pied. In another more or same Albino's with pieds. I will stick to my original assumption that it is a Dutch Pied.

First things first. What a lovely bird. I think the bird is either a heavily variegated Danish or the loveliest Dutch Pied I've seen in years. The bird is still a baby so it makes it hard to tell and plus I can't get hold of it to check the eyes. If you look really close at a Danish eye it is not completly black It is not an Australian Dominant Pied. I am leaning to Dutch Pied. Looking at the marking it has the typical frosting seen in Dutch Pied when presented in Normal i.e. non Opaline. To get a Dutch, easy go buy one mate to Normal 50% of young will be Dutch but I warn you now the pied pattern is highly variable. To get a Danish mate two together get 100% Danish. Violet is a Cobalt with either one or two Violet factor. Get a Violet Sky Blue and Violet Mauve (if you can find them) and pair them together. You'll produce 50% Cobalt and 50% Violet Cobalt (visual Violet)

:anim_19: Your a winner. When a gene is exhibited visually its effect will depend on exactly what it does. I suppose a really good example is the Ino gene. An Ino will look like an Ino (affects Melanin pigement production) but it could also an Opaline (affects melanin pigment distribution), Cinnamon (affects melanin pigment synthesis), Dominant Pied (affects melanin pigment deposition) you just can't see it. All of the other genes have done their thing, so has the Ino but because the effect of the Ino is to remove all Melanin it basically gets the last word. So the processes goes something like this.....the production of Melanin begins and from the beginning is getting a hard time of it cause the Ino put the brakes on. Cinnamon jumped in and decided that, even with what little progress had been made it was going to change the lovely black melanin into a brown melanin. The Opaline came to the party and decided that it would move the now brown melanin to a new home. Now the party pooper the Pied came along and decided it was going to selectively target certain areas and remove what little, now brown melanin, was left.

The bird is a single factor Yellowface Mutant 1 also known as English Yellowface or Creamface. I won't bother with the expectations as they have already been done by others.

Dominant Varieties/Colours Green Grey (Australian) Spangle Australian Dominant Pied Dutch Pied (Continental Clearflight) Violet Crest Goldenface (Australian Yellowface) YellowFace Mutant 2 Yellowface Mutant 1 Darkwing Easley Clearbody The Yellowface and Goldenface are not however dominant to Green They are Multiple Allelomorphs and I have listed them in their order of dominance to each other. Grey, Violet and Darkwing are considered Factors Recessive Varieties/Colours Blue Grey (English) Recessive Pied (Harlequin, Danish) Greywing Clearwing Dilute (Suffused Yellow and White) Fallow (Recessive) Brownwing Saddleback Faded Blackface * Fallow * Lacewing (result of crossover but breeds true) * Ino * Texas Clearbody * Opaline Slate * Cinnamon Within the recessive list you will find those marked thus * are sex-linked recessive. Ino and Clearbody are Multiple Allelomorphs. Lacewing can also be placed in this category and used as though it were an Ino or Cinnamon The Greywing, Clearwing and Dilute are Multiple Allelomorphs and they have been placed in their order of dominance. Although when Greywing and Clearwing are combined they exhibit features of both I have not included Dark Eyed Clears on the list as it is a combination or Dutch and Danish i.e. Combination of a Dominant and a Recessive Gene. JimmyBanks if you paired a Spangle with an Dominant Pied you would get a bird which will exhibit features from both parents. The pied genes will act and reduce/remove melanin from the feathers in the way it has been instructed to do. Now dependant on which Dominant Pied was used will depend on the areas of the body and how/where the reduction and/or elimination takes place. The Spangle gene will act in all the usual places. The pied gene does not effect it at all. What you will see (or not see) will be that in the places that the pied has removed the melanin leaving yellow or white patches on the wings you will not see those spangle markings. The spangle effect took place and reduced the melanin to the feather edge then the pied effect came along and removed the melanin from the area that the Spangle affected. Co-Dominance is know only in the Greywing-Clearwing combination at this stage as a genetic phenomenom. Normal is dominant. But it is best referred to as wildtype. It is the seed from which all mutations sprang.

Thanks for you kind words JimmyBanks. I have found this forum to be very welcoming. I will try and find more stuff to put up but I did get rid of a lot. Deleted pretty much all my photos of the computer so only ones left are on my website and what I took with the old SLR. I too have bred pigeons and had them here up to the end of last year. I was partnership in a business releasing white ones for the funeral and wedding industries. I also use to breed them when I lived in Whyalla, SA for eating :thankyou: . I just know some of you are squirming with that revelation. My only friend left out of budgies in fact finally had enough a few years ago and got out and moved into pigeons. He breeds Magpies mostly.

Hope I have been helpful

Aw shucks Daz, ya made me blush I enjoyed breeding my Dark Eyed Clears. I had them in Goldenface also, as at least 3/4 of my Danish were Goldenface and at least 1/2 were either Mauve or Olive. I just love a good Olive. The only thing I was sorry about when I gave up the birds was the fact that my pedigrees were so long and so impeccably kept that not a bird left this place that had any surprises I knew what every bird was. My Goldenfaces which what started me in the very first place had pedigrees going back to the 70's. A lot of hard work and research disappeared over night. I do miss them. I don't miss the showing so much. I don't really miss the people either. Only one remained a true friend and another I see from time to time as she lives a suburb away. I miss the research, theorizing and then proving like when Ken Yorke and I theorised that the Darwing factor on a Normal series bird would not show up. Took 5 years to breed the bird but I proved it. A normal looking Light Green that was a Darkwing(df) and the Darkwing could not be seen.

I really hope you have indeed got Greywings. From my past experience though I have seem many a "Dirty Clearwing" passed off as a Greywing. Even Dilutes passed off as Greywings. This series of alles are not really that hard to understand at all. I had the same proplem back in the 80's. Got told different things. Birds don't match. So I stopped listening to them and sought out those people who know their stuff. Did research. Came to my own conclusions and boy did I cope a battering. But like a dog with a bone I wasn't easily persuaded to back down. I tried to but the tunnel vision thing it is a strong enemy. Not to mention ingnorance and I think with some people pride that after 20+ years breeding some upstart with half a brain comes along and bluntly tells them their wrong. And I have back up from the likes of Ghalib and Ken Gray. I even sent and email to Eric Peak once told him he painted his Fallow on the chart the wrong colour cere. Well that went down like the preverbal lead balloon. I am afraid the show side of things will always short of the rarer mutations. They are not really geared up for them. They are to hard, lack of good, correct information. As a rare breeder you are looked down on. I know I've been there. When I showed at a club show it was nothing for me to take 10 -20 to a show. Four clubs in a months. At major show I would easy put in 40 birds. I do believe at one point the World Budgerigar Organisation put a proposal on the table but I think because of the radical differences between the UK and Australian Standards I think the idea was shelved. I could be wrong I have been out of the game for awhile. As for the International judges it is not that hard. Basically most of the standards for the mutations is pretty much the same. The main points of a show budgie is conformation and type. Individual mutation characteristics play a small part in judging. I was aware of the Anthracite when the mutation first came onto the scene but I don't remember Stephen Fowler's name. At this time I was also conversing with Didier Mervilde regards the Black Faces and their was a Recessive Ino floating around too, in the UK I think. I read his article on feathers dusters I bred a few and kept detailed records of them and I also sourced them from other breeders so I had maximum numbers to research. He mentions the bird moulting. I would have to disagree with this. I found that these birds just don't moult. They seem to stay in this juvenile stage till the day they die. I did notice however though the longer they live the more they need a diet sufficient to feed the feathers which contiually grow. Show a feather become weak which these do because after they are not a mature feather and lack the substance and structure of a mature bird and are easily damaged. I found lots of feathers in the cages of feather dusters that had lived a fair age none of the feathers had been ejected from the folicle, they were broken at varying lengths. If you look at the barring on the top of the head you will see it just does not go away. I actually had a line of Clearwings that carried the Feather Duster gene and I could always predict which nest would produce them. You can keep track of this gene like any other.

It is possible those Saddlebacks at Birdworld are decendants of the stock I had sent over from NSW some years ago as I was the first one in WA to bring them in along with the Faded and the Darkwing. Brownwings are easy to identify. They have a deep plum eye (looks red when born) and the iris ring is there but not as in a normal. The brown markings are more like grey-brown in colour. Goldenfaces (GF) are the same as Australian Yellowface. It is easier when working out pairings to referto them as GF as there are two other mutant type on Yellowface. In Australia we have only two type here. 1. The English Yellowface or Yellowface Mutant II or as people here seem to prefer YF2 and 2. The Goldenface. In the UK they have all three so if you lot get confused with what you got now what would ya all do with the three types. Now here is a revelation for you all. A Yellowface bird is not a blue bird with a yellowface. It is a Green bird with a mutated gene. This gene controls psittacine pigment production in combination with genes for Melanin production and the genes which control feather structure. In a Yellowface bird the Structure of the feather does not change and nor does the production of the Melanin. What does change is the amout of Psittacine pigment produced. When the gene is made completely non functional the result is a Blue bird. If the gene is partially functional some Yellow pigment will be produced. The amount of yellow pigment production depends on the type of Yellowface involved and if the bird carries one or two YF genes.

Kaz, the problem with Clearwings is not the bird itself it is the perception and tunnel vision of a show standard. Okay standards we need as there must be something to strive for, but when they are written without full consultation of breeders and/or looking back through history. Also their are different names given to the same mutations in different parts of the world. In fact the planet can be divided into three separate areas. Europe, USA and Australia-New Zealand. These zones especially Australia was dictated by quarantine laws. What we had was that. No new stuff allowed into the country. Just before giving up the budgies I was in consultation with Ken Gray in regards to getting hold of some Slates as we don't have them here. We do however have a Recessive Grey mutation and they don't. Clearwings when first mutated DID NOT have pure yellow or white wings. It is written for posterity that a majority of the birds did indeed have faint grey markings varying intensity. Now if you breed with a single focus in mind as I did with those mice you will acheive a goal. i.e. pair Clearwing to Clearwing and with each generation select only for clarity of wing and you will get those clean wings. But over the past 60 years what has been forgotton here in Australia was what the mutation originally looked like. In the UK the standard is written to cater for the original mutation and Australian breeders would consistently call them Greywings. Belgium Blue Cattle without a doubt will show you what happens when a particlar trait is selected for over many, many generations. Be warned these cattle are not to every ones taste but it is an eye opener. Click on the link below for this little National Geographic snippet on you tube. http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmkj5gq1cQU&...feature=related