RIPbudgies

I used Birdrec when I had my budgies and when I get back into it I will use it again. I also used to sell the product along with Budgen and The Show Manager. I tried the Budgerigar program but there was something about it that I did not like but can't remember what it was. I looked at Birdtracker but decided that unless I get lots of different birds it would be a waste of time and money. Currency conversion at present is: Budgerigar Program US$75.00 = AUS$107.97 Bird Rec AUS$119.00 = US$82.66

Chrissy, You are so welcome. Thank you for being a budgie lover and also for wanting to do the right thing by the people who will eventually get your babies. Your a champ. :anim_19:

Being soluable means that it can be easily assimilated by the bird. If it is unsoluable it means it will go through the bird and calcium component will not be absorbed because of the bond that exist between the Phosphate and the Calcium. Some minerals in order to be assimilated by plants and animals must be given in a chelated (key-lated) form. Give me a day or so and I will post an article for you guys about it.

Yes the mother was normal. Unfortunately I do not have a picture of the mother. He not Opaline. I put his picture up to show that a bird can look quite different to what it actually is. When he was hatched and began feathering up I did at first believe he was the only Normal produced in the nest. But there were 3 yellow feathers on the back of his and Opalesence coming through. With no Opaline in the family background and the dad being a DF Dutch he had to be a SF Dutch. It just goes to show that a Pied can look almost normal. You just have to know what to look for. but still relates. I have also been interested in genetics and the visual expressions of horses and cattle. In the pied horse of which the main three are Overo, Tobiano and Sabino there are variations and combinations. I have seen in person a Pied Chestnut mare with one patch of white under her belly where the saddle girth goes about the size of a mans hand. That's it! She is still a pied. Longhorn and Watusi cattle have the most variable markings I reackon in the cattle family. Now just to throw a little spanner (spanner smilely needed here) in the works. The Spangle and the Mottle can be considered Pieds.

Way to go MB. The Spangle Cinnamon and the Spangle baby look to be nice sorts. Don't forget the spangle who is small and may be smaller than his siblings stills has the same genetic make up. Here's a tip for ya. Don't worry about having more hens than cocks. Hens are always harder to get in quality. I have often put a good cock over two or more hens at the same time. The hen is quite capable of carrying out the parental responsibilities all by herself. :feedbirds:

Yes Neville I did breed from him. Being Olive he was used not only for the Dutch Pied of which he produced some lovely marked individuals but also to breed more Olives and Mauves. He was one of my favourite birds in the avairy. He was just like his dad, loved the ladies and was very fertile.

Quick answer to the difference between Calcium Cabonate (CaCO3) and Calcium Phosphate (Ca3(PO4)2 is that the former is soluable in water. I'll will hit my chemistry books for you and give you a more indepth anwser later if ya like. I used to make my own blocks but I formulated my own receipe. Just can't find it.

Excellent Signature Dave.

Dominant Pied is a Dominant mutation. It is either there or it is not. It cannot be held in split form. The mother of the Lutino is a Dominant Pied and so there is a 50% chance of her passing the Pied gene to the offspring. The Lutino chick has either inherited the Pied gene or she has not. Because the Lutino masks any other variety she may visually have you can only guess what is there. If this chick once grown up was paired to say a Normal Light Green then some Pied offspring resulted you would then know she is indeed a Dominant Pied.

Had a look around budgerigarplanet website. She has a section for Rainbows yet shows them in Spangle and Dom Pied. Rainbows are Goldenface Opaline Clearwing Blue series. Always have been always will be. This name comes for the Keston Foreign Bird Farm who began their production way back in the 1930's I think it was. On the Variety Differences pages go down to Greywing, Clearwing and Dilutes section. Picture on left "Sky-Blue Clearwing Hen (Blue Series, Left)" is a Dilute Sky and the "Dulite Blue Male (Blue Series, Right.)" is a Spangle which is either Dilute or Cinnamon. The Texas Clearbody is not right either. Not knowing the breeding but it does look like a melanistic spangle. I have bred aSpangle Oplaine TCB and they don't look nothing like that. Here is the link. http://www.freewebs.com/budgerigarplanet/v...differences.htm

Ben = Normal Light Green cock Cuddles = Yellowface Mutant 1(sf) Sky cock Sarah = Yellowface Mutant 1(sf) Albino hen Can just make out yellow in the face......but as Dave_McMinn says if it is due to food she is not yellowface Grey = Normal Grey Hen Bluey = Normal Sky cock Quote Dorryswife: Now we know Sarah is an Albino cause of the red eyes - is that correct? In this case Yes. what sex is the grey? See above and what type is Ben? See Above

Find yourselt a nice type normal Cobalt Blue hen. then you find out the following. 1. If he is SF or DF Grey 2. If it is Yellowface or Goldenface as Goldenface Greys usually have a dilute yellow due to the grey factor 3. If he is Sky, Cobalt or Mauve Grey ) as long as he is not DF Grey)

Quote Chrissy: 1. The GF (sf) Albino can I call it a Creamino or is that not correct to say? Am I understanding that a GF (sf) Albino IS the same thing as a Creamino? Quote Melbournebudgie: Personally I'd still call it a cremino but maybe there is some other convention here I'm not aware of... I prefer to call a budgie it correct classification and thereby help diseminate correct naming practices. It this case if the bird was to go to a breeder it is telling then the type of Yellowface involved. As the word "cream" is used to prefix the word "face" referring to the English Yellowface Mutant 1 a person may think it is that type. If the bird is to go for a pet then using the term Creamino would be fine. Creamino was infact rarely used in budgie terminology until the combo surfaced in parrots. Quote Chrissy: 2. The GF (sf) Cobalts, will their bodies stay blue and thier head stay yellow or will thier bodies get a "green" color after thier first molt like a YF2 would ? Quote Melbournbudgie: I would use the GF parent as a guide on this one The GF parent will not guide you as the product of the Sky X Mauve results in all cobalts. As a baby the bird will resemble a GF(df). Once the bird begins to moult and the feather structure changes from juvenile to adult the Yellow will become more intense in the body feathering. The bird will end up looking like a deep sea/green ocean. Similar to the one in the picture below. Quote Chrissy: 3. On the birds you are saying are split Clearwing or Greywing will you know which one once you know the sex of the bird or will we not know until they are bred and we see thier offspring? Quote Melbournebudgie: You won't know until they are bred as it isn't sex-linked Correct MB. If you want to know which one is split for what you would have to pair it to a visual Dilute as it is recessive to Greywing and Clearwing. Quote Chrissy: 4. On the dominant pied birds that you say are "possibly" split INO what will or won't make them split Ino?? I don't understand this part. Quote Melbournebudgie: All cock chicks will be split No not all cocks will be split for Ino. The father was split i.e. two genes = one Ino; one non Ino. When paired to a hen he can only pass on one of those genes. Each cock has a 25% chance of getting the Ino gene. Quote Chrissy: 5. I don't understand the "Opaline Lutino Domiant Pied Light or Dark Green Hen"... Wouldn't she be "masking" opaline since she can't be split for it? And how does the dominant pied come into play... wouldn't that too be "masking"? I'm totally lost on this one. And as for the color, I won't know dark or light green until she is bred, correct? Quote Melbournebudgie: Yes he means masking those patterns It is just the way in I name birds. Using the ANBC Matrix I name starting from the bottom. It also had to fit in with the program that I used to record pedigrees. This is how I would write it in the records Opaline Ino (Dom Pied) Light (Dark) Green. Here is the explanation for each part of the record. Opaline = is visual is highest up the matrix so therefore written first Ino = Ino is collective term and I can tell it is a Lutino becuase it is a green bird so no need to use the term Lutino (Dom Pied) = is placed in brackets and at this point because it is an unknown dominant mutation Light (Dark) Green = I assume the Green closest to the wildtype and place the unknown in brackets. Should the bird turn out to be a Dark Green I will simply remove the brackets and the word Light If the bird was split for any recessive mutations I would place a / after the word Green and then list the recessive traits. If the Recessive trait is possible but not proved it too would be placed inside brackets and placed at the end.

How can it be split if it is a hen?? Wouldn't it be masking those gene's?? Greywing and Clearwing genes are recessive and as such can be carried in split form by both sexes.

There are some handy looking youngsters in that lot Kaz.

JB you're right about the TCB but it may not be a cock. If dad is split for Ino it could be a hen.

JB - YF can be in both Greens and Blues it is just not visual till on a Blue series bird. The Lacewing I have posted is a Blue series she was in fact a Sky Blue.

JB It would show if the YF if the birds are blue series. I have a picture of a Creamface(sf) TCB Opaline which is featured on page 153 in Terry Martin's book A Guide To Colour Mutations & Genetics in Parrots Here is a picture of a Goldenface(sf) Lacewing I bred some time ago

This does happen in about one time in a hundred and when it does most times there is another mutation involved I assure you Neville that bird is 100% visual Dominant Pied. His only other relation a couple of generations back was a Clearwing Dominant Pied hen picked up from a breeder who reckoned it was a Greywing Dom Pied. Nothing else was added to this line except normals.

This is a subject that not everybody will agree as shown by previous posts. I did it. Inbreeding of with Line Breeding is type, is best thought of as a tool. If you consistenly outcorsses to individuals who are either extremely distantly related (don't forget all budgies go back to the same ancestor) you never consolidate certain features. Show budgies are inbred fairly close to increase the features that are required on the show bench. The closest of all inbreeding is the brother and sister pairing. In some cases it can be carried out very successfully and in other it has disasterous results. If you are trying to establish a new variety this type of pairing must be considered. I have done it when it was warranted but a mere handful of times over twenty years.

Jen144 you must taken into account when surfing the WWW that 90% of sites dedicated to budiges haven't got a clue what they are taking about. The majority is just written regurgitation from what they have read elsewhere. If the source is wrong it does not matter how many times it is written down it is still wrong. People also tend to put their own slant on things. If the person likes the name Herlequin for example rather the term Recessive Pied or Danish Pied they will then use that term. The bird in the picture is a Goldenface(sf) Recessive Pied Cobalt

Yeah JB you'll definately get a Spangle Texas Clearbody it is the visual result that is the surprise. I produced one and it was also Opaline. It was what I expected but it the bird was placed on the show bench (as I did) very few people are able to see what a bird really is. When I put this bird in a show (AOV of course) there was no problem with people recognising the Spangle and most even got the Opaline but nobody picked up on the Texas Clearbody. They are so used to seeing the "show only" stuff they don't see the myirad of combinations and their effects to know what to look for. Here is a back picture of the bird. I have no front picture and it wouldn't really help anyhow. Forgive the quality as at the time this picture was taken with a video camera and then image capture.

I am a Single Factor Dominant Pied Light Green I posted this bird to show you all that just because a bird has very little pied markings it is not necessarily a Double Factor Pied. If both parents were SF pied then it is a possibility but not a fact. If both parents were DF pied then yes it would be fact. Splat's pied is an example of what people say based purely on visual assesment. What you see is not always what you think it is. My other What Am I post points that out. With some birds you need to be detective like in your approach to figure it out. I remember somewhere on this forum somebody is going to pair a Spangle with a Texas Clearbody. Boy are you in for an interesting result.