Line Breeding / Inbreeding...

[renee 0]

You've done well Kaz, that's an excellent illustration.

[Daz 0]

Yes very good. Cousins are also a good pairing. You can pair any bird to any bird. But some combinations just don't work.

 

One issue "WE" have is that we put our morals on to the birds. In the wild, budgies breed in large flocks and inter breeding occurs. Nature sorts out the ones that survive or not.

 

I don't breed father to daughter or mother to Son. I have heard some UK breeders do. But I do Half Brother to Half Sister and Uncle to Niece. Aunt to Nephew. Cousin to Cousin.

 

You have to be carefull as you can loss fertility by breeding too close for too long. Sherman in South Africa was a great believer in close breeding until one day his totally lost the fertility in the all his birds. You can read about inbreeding and outcrossing in the Current Challenge by Gerald Binks.

[Heathrow 0]

Daz is there any reason why you dont breed Mother to Son and Father to Daughter.

[Daz 0]

No not really. Heathrow

 

I have breed Brother to sister in a melanistic pairing to try for a double factor which I got. Henry did try Father to Daughter and Mother to Son but it really didn't work for him so he doesn't do that pairing any more.

 

Have you much luck with this pairing?

Edited March 8, 2009 by Daz

[Heathrow 0]

I used Father to Daughter late last year. I paired a Grey Green Cinnamon cock bird that is one of my foundation cocks to his best daughter, reason being he is an 04 model and although still breeding well i needed to try that pairing. My reluctance to try this pairing probably has more to do with the fact i didnt want to get overrun with Grey Green Cinnamons. The babies from that pairing i'm really happy with, they are just breaking there caps now. I have him paired up to another daughter now, a Grey Green Opaline Cinnamon. only time will tell.

 

In terms of pairings i do like cousin to cousin, particularly where grandparents are key birds. Half Brother to half sister can work well if you know your birds, it can also be a waste of time if the common parent is nothing but the best.

 

My Breeding programme this year involves quite a few close pairings. I paired up 16 pairs this week all with some form of relationship to it's chosen mate, so by may i should know if my plan has worked.

[Daz 0]

I'd be interested in how they go. Keep us informed.

[GenericBlue 0]

I used Father to Daughter late last year. I paired a Grey Green Cinnamon cock bird that is one of my foundation cocks to his best daughter, reason being he is an 04 model and although still breeding well i needed to try that pairing. My reluctance to try this pairing probably has more to do with the fact i didnt want to get overrun with Grey Green Cinnamons. The babies from that pairing i'm really happy with, they are just breaking there caps now. I have him paired up to another daughter now, a Grey Green Opaline Cinnamon. only time will tell.

 

In terms of pairings i do like cousin to cousin, particularly where grandparents are key birds. Half Brother to half sister can work well if you know your birds, it can also be a waste of time if the common parent is nothing but the best.

 

My Breeding programme this year involves quite a few close pairings. I paired up 16 pairs this week all with some form of relationship to it's chosen mate, so by may i should know if my plan has worked.

please

 

quote daz

I'd be interested in how they go. Keep us informed.

as would i like to know

how things went

 

also can i ask

hethrow you said cousin to cousin when grand peronts were key birds

does this mean grand peronts on both sides of mum and dad

i wondered as i have two cock birds and i know that one of their Peront was a key player to

a line im interested to get the look of

my bird has the look as does his brother

i have breed both these birds to out crosses of whom i know no percentage of their history

the chicks are reasonably good but im wanting to stamp the both cock birds potancy into my birds

if i breed the daughter of my boys to each others sons will i have a chance of putting their look in to the out come chicks or am i better to go straight for a unkle to neace pairings to get the imprinted look in my chicks out come ?????

what would be my best direction here please anyone or everyone :rofl:

Edited March 28, 2011 by **KAZ**

[GenericBlue 0]

I used Father to Daughter late last year. I paired a Grey Green Cinnamon cock bird that is one of my foundation cocks to his best daughter, reason being he is an 04 model and although still breeding well i needed to try that pairing. My reluctance to try this pairing probably has more to do with the fact i didnt want to get overrun with Grey Green Cinnamons. The babies from that pairing i'm really happy with, they are just breaking there caps now. I have him paired up to another daughter now, a Grey Green Opaline Cinnamon. only time will tell.

 

In terms of pairings i do like cousin to cousin, particularly where grandparents are key birds. Half Brother to half sister can work well if you know your birds, it can also be a waste of time if the common parent is nothing but the best.

 

My Breeding programme this year involves quite a few close pairings. I paired up 16 pairs this week all with some form of relationship to it's chosen mate, so by may i should know if my plan has worked.

:bump: :bump: please

 

quote daz

I'd be interested in how they go. Keep us informed.

as would i like to know

how things went

 

also can i ask

hethrow you said cousin to cousin when grand peronts were key birds

does this mean grand peronts on both sides of mum and dad

i wondered as i have two cock birds and i know that one of their Peront was a key player to

a line im interested to get the look of

my bird has the look as does his brother

i have breed both these birds to out crosses of whom i know no percentage of their history

the chicks are reasonably good but im wanting to stamp the both cock birds potancy into my birds

if i breed the daughter of my boys to each others sons will i have a chance of putting their look in to the out come chicks or am i better to go straight for a unkle to neace pairings to get the imprinted look in my chicks out come ?????

what would be my best direction here please anyone or everyone

 

:bump: :bump: :bump: :bump: :bump: :bump:

[**KAZ** 0]

I used Father to Daughter late last year. I paired a Grey Green Cinnamon cock bird that is one of my foundation cocks to his best daughter, reason being he is an 04 model and although still breeding well i needed to try that pairing. My reluctance to try this pairing probably has more to do with the fact i didnt want to get overrun with Grey Green Cinnamons. The babies from that pairing i'm really happy with, they are just breaking there caps now. I have him paired up to another daughter now, a Grey Green Opaline Cinnamon. only time will tell.

 

In terms of pairings i do like cousin to cousin, particularly where grandparents are key birds. Half Brother to half sister can work well if you know your birds, it can also be a waste of time if the common parent is nothing but the best.

 

My Breeding programme this year involves quite a few close pairings. I paired up 16 pairs this week all with some form of relationship to it's chosen mate, so by may i should know if my plan has worked.

:bump: :bump: please

 

quote daz

I'd be interested in how they go. Keep us informed.

as would i like to know

how things went

 

also can i ask

hethrow you said cousin to cousin when grand peronts were key birds

does this mean grand peronts on both sides of mum and dad

i wondered as i have two cock birds and i know that one of their Peront was a key player to

a line im interested to get the look of

my bird has the look as does his brother

i have breed both these birds to out crosses of whom i know no percentage of their history

the chicks are reasonably good but im wanting to stamp the both cock birds potancy into my birds

if i breed the daughter of my boys to each others sons will i have a chance of putting their look in to the out come chicks or am i better to go straight for a unkle to neace pairings to get the imprinted look in my chicks out come ?????

what would be my best direction here please anyone or everyone

 

:bump: :bump: :bump: :bump: :bump: :bump:

You could PM him to get him to look at this question

[GenericBlue 0]

You could PM him to get him to look at this question

yes i could but dont want to hassel anyone like that

 

im happy for anyone to answer my question even you kaz

 

i have two cock birds and i know that one of their Peront was a key player to

a line im interested to get the look of

my bird has the look as does his brother

i have breed both these birds to out crosses of whom i know no percentage of their history

the chicks are reasonably good but im wanting to stamp the both cock birds potancy into my birds

if i breed the daughter of my boys to each others sons will i have a chance of putting their look in to the out come chicks or am i better to go straight for a unkle to neace pairings to get the imprinted look in my chicks out come ?????

what would be my best direction here please anyone or everyone :bump:

Edited March 15, 2010 by KAZ

[nubbly5 0]

My 3rd place Nats lacewing boy is from a brother to sister pairing. I have had success with very close pairings including father to daughter.

 

GB the best way I know to establish a cock line in your stud is to breed one cock to several hens or two at least so you have a number of half brothers and sisters. You theb pair the half brothers and sisters together the better ones and i personally would also pair the father back to one of his better daughters. I would even use the father again if I could over one of the granddaughters from a half brother sister pairing. I would only do this however if the cock was substantially better than the rest of my stud and if not I would just continue with best to best half brothers and sisters.

 

If you don't know the parentage of both cocks establish two families of them first seperately before you breed the chicks back into the other cocks family. You need to fix the features into the line before you have the feature there regularly enough to be able to combine it into another line.

Edited March 15, 2010 by nubbly5

[Guest K&M Breeding]

I know this is an old thread, But I wanted to say it gave me a lot of information

 

I know about in breeding and Line breeding - but its always nice to hear how others accomplish it

 

my boyfriends dad breeds Pigeons and Beagles and inbreeding/line breeding is how he Gets his BEST Champion birds and BEST dogs (including mine since I got her from him lol)

 

BUT personally I have an Issue with Actual inbreeding I wouldn't breed a mom to a son or a dad to a daughter or a brother to a sister from the same parents I've seen pictures of those out comes even in dogs and it was enough to make me go get sick! not all problems are internal!

 

but dogs born with out tongues, clef lips, no eye balls, birds born with no eyes because the daughter was bred to the father or the son was bred to the mother - no thanks I don't want that and I don't want my kids seeing that I know it can happen even if the pairs are not related it can still happen But it just seems to happen more when its mom/son dad/daughter breeding ( but what others do is their business not mine )

 

My b/f has been trying for a year to talk me into letting a Son/Daughter pair breed in my cockatiels I refuse to do it, But told him if he's so gun ho on it then do it but I wanted no parts of it meaning I wouldn't feed them water them clean the nest box hand feed the babies it was ALL on him Thankfully they never did anything except live together I think they were trying to tell him something because both are Parents just not together LOL

 

BUT on line breeding I will (when I get there) do a Grandmother to a grandson , Aunt to a Nephew etc. and even further down the line like a Great grandparent with its Great granddaughter/son etc but that will be a while i don't have that many relative birds yet

 

but I was wondering if a Half sibling pairing was too close? is that as close as mom- son, dad- daughter , Brother-sister from the same parents ??

 

I just don't want to breed to close to relations but all of this will be further down the road, I just like to get my information a head of time

Edited March 8, 2011 by K&M Breeding

[GenericBlue 0]

some have breed sister brother

i think its to close as nubbly 5 said half brother sister is okay

[Daz 0]

I'm glade this thread gave people some information to think about.

[Dazzler 0]

Well done to all the contributors.

I would like to say that the closest mating is not brother and sister but Mother and Son, Father and Daughter. These two pairings considerabley reduce the gene pool where as the brother sister mating produces chicks with a broader genetic makeup. A parent to child mating will produce offspring in which 50% of the offspring will inherit 50% of the parent/granparent, but sibling matings will produce 25% grandparent A and 25 % grandparent B.

I would also agree with Daz, that in the wild and in most backyarders aviaries, inbreeding occurs. A backyarder for instance who introduces a certain color and then culls(sells) birds not that color in following years is selectivily line/inbreeding, probably with out realising it.

Line breeding/inbreeding is a tool everyone can utilise for different reasons. All new mutations are line bred to maintain the new variety. If you are looking for size in you backyard aviary you will select the biggest to leave in the cage to breed with. If you are after a color as mentioned earlier, you will select this color in the youg to go on with. You don't need to know the backgound of the birds to line breed, it will occur naturally anyway if you breed numbers and they are the type of birds you like.

The alternative is out crossing. Now there is another topic altogether. Many, many many new bad traits can be introduced which can have more of a devestating effect on your birds because they are hidden in the background of your new purchase. 'Closed Aviaries' are where breeders are extremely reluctant to introduce new birds for fear of the unknown being introduced. In general breeders know what they have and what will be breed although surprises do occur.

Good luck with your "line".

[Daz 0]

Thanks Dazzler for your comments.

 

I've been out for a while with other interests. Hope the Nationals when well for you this year.

SQBBA has the pleasure of putting on next year at Toowoomba.

[De Wet 0]

man I must say I learn a lot from this forum to keep birds I am actual a ornamental pheasant breeder and part time budgerigars and never thought that line breeding is also possible in pheasants and we have a greater danger for inbreeding because the sanctions against our country in the past thanks for all the info