classylady

In my honest opinion you must get him to an avian vet to look at the injuries, it's cruel not to do so and I would hope you will tell your family this. If you or your family member were injured someone would make sure you go to the doctor or hospital. Animals have feelings and feel pain, it's just not fair to leave an animal in this condition and not consult medical professionals for advice and help. Please take him, I hate to think what he is suffering poor little soul. Chrissie

Hi Elly I too wonder if it's related to his other health issues, I just wondered if anyone else experienced the same and could give me some clues. We leave him covered at night from about 11 p.m. to 8 a.m. - ish..... is there a reason you asked as I haven't any idea what difference that makes? Just wish I could make him feel better whilst moulting but wary over adding new meds etc because of his liver problem.... it's a nightmare isn't it when you don't know what to do for the best? Thank you for your help though, it's much appreciated. Chrissie

Yes it's an all over moult and always is, I did wonder about moulting aid but not sure if it's okay with him having liver disease... as you say it's a real worry especially as he has other problems as well poor little soul. Chrissie

Hi everyone, It's been a while since I've been on, thankfully because there's not been a lot to report about Percy (some of you will remember my other posts and am thankful for all the responses).... I have had him on Milk Thistle for a little while now and mostly I feel it is doing him good (liver problems etc). The poo's are still not normal and there's still green staining and a wet area around them, but I don't notice him doing just plain water type poo so much. He's still not 100% as I don't think he ever will be, but once again he's mostly chirpy and happy but of course he has times he's not so good and will sit quiet and "whimper", it happens every day which pains me as I can do nothing for him. The one thing that is almost constantly happening is him moulting... he seems to be in moult most of the time and that's when he is off colour more as I know most birds are. The avian vet I last took him to mentioned something about this, that it could be a hormone thing, even thyroid problems.... but she didn't do anything specific about it. I don't want to take him back unless he's really unwell as it stresses him out and sometimes to see him you'd think there was nothing wrong with him at all! But I wondered if anyone has the same problem with their bird(s).... almost constant moulting? If so, what do you do for them, do you give them speficic meds/supplements etc? I'd be interested to know what to do, poor darling Percy looks so scruffy and his fatty lipoma is more prominent because of the moult.... and he's been like this for some weeks now, very soon after finishing a moult before. I appreciate all your comments and friendship on here, I don't know what I'd have done without this wonderful forum over the 6 years I've had Percy. Wishing you all the best Chrissie

Thanks Rainbow. I have got the milk thistle for him and gave him a couple of drops in his water but then the gut problem worsened so he is only have the Baytril in his water now... that's gonna be for 10 days. I have been giving him probiotics too, so when the antibiotics have finished he will start back on the probiotics and the milk thistle. It's just that the weakened immune system is going to be a problem from what I can see.... just hope he picks up with that in a couple of weeks... apart from all this he is chirpy and lively which is wonderful to see... hope the a/biotics are helping him. Thanks for your support and caring xxxx Chrissie

Thanks for all your comments. No Percy doesn't touch anything whilst out of his cage (there's no plants or anything like that in the room), in fact he either sits on the branch on top of it or is inside when we aren't in the room. It's just that the doors of the cage are left open for him to come out if he wants but we find he rarely does until we come down to sit there. I just wish there was something one could do for the weakened immune system though I have an autoimmune problem myself so I know what it can be like. He is having probiotics (Avi-pro) which contains a lot of vitamins too and of course when he eats the pellets there's vitamins in those. I'm not sure I should add anymore to his feeds etc.... he has fresh food and cooked carrots and brocolli... also hard boiled egg whites once a week, other than that I don't know what to do. With his liver being compromised the vet said to get him onto pellets solely as seed is fatty and doesn't help his liver, but Percy won't accept pellets full time, he eats them as well as seed which I feel is good. At the moment I've withdrawn the pellets to see if they are causing kidney problems with the wet droppings he's having. After a week I will see how it goes, if it's not those I wonder if it's the probiotics causing the water to come away from him..... talk about stress lol...... it's me who's suffering with it as I feel I am going round in circles to try and help my boy. Chrissie x

Hi Everyone I won't go over old ground but a lot of you know about my darling boy Percy and all the problems he's had and is still having (liver, fatty lipoma, gut probs et al). The last infection he had diagnosed by faecal test was Strep and Staph. His gut has never been right in all the 6 years I've had him and various avian vets have never really come up with the answer. Anyway, just recently the gut problem got worse with poo stuck to him so a trip to the vets again. She was a little "off" because he looked and usually is very chirpy and his feathers were good, so I felt she thought I was being a little paranoid about him. I took a faecal sample to her and she sent it away and the results have come back that he has another infection, this time e-coli. She said he seems as though he has a weak immune system because of all the problems he gets with his gut. Asked what she would do for the immune system she said nothing! I now have to give him a course of Baytril for the e-coli infection. I thought something could be done now that we know what is ailing him, but it looks like he will keep on having gut problems/infections because of the immune system. Percy is eating pellets at times and for the last couple of weeks, I notice he is shedding a lot of water around his poo's... really wetting the paper, just as though I've spilt water on it! Mentioned this to the vet yesterday when she rang with the results and she said if that doesn't clear up after the antibiotics, then we should test for diabetes....aaarrrgh.... what else is this poor little lad going to suffer!!! Does anyone else have a bird with weakened immune system and if so what do you do for it? As I say, Percy is chirpy most of the time, the only way you'd know he wasn't well is the poo's aren't normal and towards the end of the day he sits fluffed up over his back above the vent... just as though it's sore and making him uncomfortable. He flies round the room when he wants (is always out when we are home) and he is cheeky as ever, but with the continual gut problems/infections... I just wonder what the poor little devil is suffering. Thanks for "listening"... I just get so downhearted about all my little boy has gone through in his short 6 years.... can't bear to see him suffer or know he is ill.... but am so pleased I can come here and talk about it and know you all understand. Oh yes... can humans get the e-coli infection from budgies do you know.... just thought I'd ask as I know then to be careful with him around us? Take care, hope you all have a good day/evening. Chrissie x

That's a great tip especially to keep a record of the weights too. Just a little miffed that anyone should consider any creature "useless" just because they can't be showed..... it's my opinion that animals have more worth in their souls than being a show or breeding object, they are living things and not there for our pleasure, whatever that may be. It's my opinion only and I would hope I'm entitled to voice it because I'm an animal lover and whatever animal it is..... it's not there for humans to use at any cost. Chrissie :hap:

Hi Everyone No I haven't forgotten you, I've been so busy lately, the computer has problems and I'm trying my best to sort that out... seems never ending.. sigh. Just to let you know that Percy seems better in himself, but still is fluffed up occasionally, usually evenings and it's his gut problem. I have a theory that he is SO much better in the mornings when he hasn't eaten but as the day goes on and he eats.. the gut is misbehaving. He is very lively most mornings so it's a joy to see. Updates on food etc. He only occasionally eats the pellets, out of choice but when I take his seed away he looks for it and won't eat the pellets instead... so I put the seed back, he has that then later will eat the pellets on top of his cage... it's progress I think. I put the probiotics on his food every other day... and feed him what I can with fresh veg and fruit. He has the white of hard boiled egg occasionally too and I am hoping to do him some mung beans as in sprouts. Does anyone do them for their birds, if so how do you do them please? I am still waiting for the milk thistle to come so can't tell you about that here. As for him standing on one leg like he did... it's very strange, since he's been better I've not seen him do it... I can't think why it happened, perhaps when his energy is down it happens then I don't know. I will of course watch for that again. What I see now is that he is back to being okay-ish before he had the moult, the poo's are still as they were, grey, white, water etc etc.... green staining on the paper around them..... he's not moulting, he is lively when his gut isn't playing up... all this has gone on for the 6 yrs we've had him.... just wish I could do more for his gut problem.... it really goes down when he's in a moult. Anyway, thank you all so much for bearing with me and for your kind, caring words. I don't know what I would do without this wonderful forum and all the lovely people on here. hugs to you all Chrissie xxx

Hi I don't know if you have seen my post in Health section regarding Percy who has liver disease and has to go on a low fat diet without seed? I also have to give him milk thistle to help his liver so went to the natural health food shop and couldn't get it in pure form, only with other herbs added, but the guy said had I tried the budgie on mung beans as he only got them in because someone asked him for their budgie. So what I would like to know, are they any good for budgie food and not high in fat please and also does anyone else give milk thistle to their budgies and if so can you tell me where you buy it from? Thank you so much for your help as it will be very much appreciated. Chrissie

Hi Jimmy, Kaz and Chrysocome, Thank you all for the posts, I take great comfort in what you are saying, thank you for that. I must admit I too don't like the idea of an all pellet diet I really don't, although if it will help him I am going to persevere but I think it will be with occasional seed... At least he is trying the pellets and that's a good sign, he hasn't turned his beak up altogether at them... phew. I forget to mention that she also said to give him 1 - 2 drops of milk thistle every day which I know does give help to the liver, so I have to get some of that. I too am not sure about the leg problem, with the amount of bacteria he has in him (according the the local avian vet who I am trying not to go back to) then I think anything could be possible. The result from the biopsy wasn't back but the vet said she took cells rather than a biopsy (trust me to get it wrong) and thinks it was fat more than anything but would let me know if it was anything else. She also said if Percy picks up and we think he's up to it, sometime in the future he could have the x-ray, though I don't want to put him through too much as you may imagine. In his six short years he has been through *** really, considering how small a creature bugies are, this one has had more than his fair share of problems and procedures and I would love to "leave him to it" and not put him through more, but we shall have to see as the time goes on. Percy is still up and down, but at least he's not always down or else that would be very worrying. I am going to have to look up the foods that he can have, esp veg and fruit. I give him brocolli once a week and carrots but he does like them cooked and mashed up. He doesn't eat a lot of fruit even when I hand feed him, though he does like a little banana AND ORANGE!! Didn't know they liked oranges. When nectarines come in I shall give him those as he likes them. I will definitely look for everything I can to help him and hopefully... and not too long ahead he will become well again.... that's my aim. I'll still post if you don't get sick of me doing it <smile>.... but meanwhile thank you ALL so much for your invaluable help and kindness during this very stressful time. I can't thank you enough. hugs Chrissie xx

UPDATE: Hi everyone, The new vet rang last night and gave me the blood test result. She said that Percy's liver disease is due to a seed only diet (well apart from the veg n fruit we give him) and that we have to change him over to a completely all pellet diet so that his problems can be helped. The Staph and Strep in the gut is apparently due to his diet too, the liver problem adding to it. I have to give him daily probiotics now, sprinkled on his food and not in the water, I will have to get some Avipro plus as the local vet gave me some capsules and I just can't get on with sprinkling only a quarter of them over his food. The green water staining around his poo's is due to the liver (which I knew anyway) and that even if his liver recovers, that might not change. She is concerned about the leg problem (he draws his right leg up) which she said could be a testicular tumour. They would have to do a barium x-ray to find this out but we know that there's nothing can be done if he does have this. She said to check his other foot to see if that okay and not red because of the strain on that. She also said that we might have to pad his perches to give him so comfort (how do we do that though... I'm not sure what I'd use?). I would really like your comments on the above, I'm sure that Percy has a tendency to liver problems and it's not just been the diet because when we first had him at 6 weeks old, his poo's were not right and have always stayed the same. Has anyone managed to get a bird off a seed diet onto pellets and do they really enjoy the pellets? I so much want to help Percy and alleviate the problems and whilst I know it will be difficult, I know something has got to be done. I don't have to take him back to see the vet unless he gets worse in himself. I am resigned to things being not a lot better for him now and that the possible testicular cancer will be hard to cope with, but he is my world this little chap so I have to do as much as I possibly can. Sorry this is a long post, please feel free to ask questions if you think I've omitted anything. If anyone has had similar problems re the liver/diet can you please help me through this? Sorry to have taken up so much of everyone's time but I really am grateful for all the help and caring support you have given me. Thank you SO much. hugs Chrissie x

Thanks maesie, just waiting for the results to come through this week now... and hoping they aren't going to be bad. Percy was a little brighter at times yesterday but is still up and down. His poo's still have the green stain around them so I wonder if the antibiotics are working. The poo's aren't normal either, sometimes like jelly and grey or white or sometimes just "water"... he's always been the same though and a worry. I will see how it goes but when he's bright it's just such a joy to see him near to being normal..... if only we could sort the gut problem out. Chrissie x

Hello Kaz Thank you for your kind thoughts, it's so nice of you to care like that. Yes I certainly do have more confidence in this vet than others I've seen with Percy and especially our local avian vet who has dealt with Percy on and off for nearly 6 years. I'm just hoping we can help Percy as although he is brighter at the moment, he is still scratching like mad and fluffing up his back over the vent area.... I only hope he's not in pain... I hate to see him like that when he's "down". I will let you know when I get the results from the bloods and biopsy.... am just keeping all crossed that things aren't going to be bad news. Chrissie xx

Hi again, I just wanted to update you on the visit to the new vet yesterday. She was really good I'm pleased I went. She said that Percy has more than one lump but there's only one lipoma and she hopes that the others are just fat accumulation. However she did a blood test and needle biopsy (she said she gave him anaesthetic thank goodness) and would should get the results back next week sometime. She said to finish the course of Clindamycin (I managed to get some into him last night but again not the full dose). She said the continuous scratching he always does is lack of Vit A (never been told this before). She also said that the moulting more than usual could be thyroid problems (sigh).... The drawing up of his right leg (which he started doing a couple of weeks ago) could be a problem with kidneys or testicular problems and that, that is a worry. She told me that the Staph and Strep are not usually found in the bowel and that is unusual so she said something is going on there too (I don't know if the blood test will tell). She said we MUST try and convert him to pellets which I've tried before but because he wouldn't I gave up which of course now I wish I hadn't.... although I do put him on canary seed at times as that's less fattening. So all in all, not a good prospect for poor Percy but he did brighten up again last night thankfully. It was a long journey for him and he coped well but I'm just wondering what the results will be and I just hope we can get rid of the staph and strep this time or I will have to give more antibiotics (sob). I just thought you might like to know the latest. Thank you all again for your support and caring thoughts as I really appreciate it. hugs to you all from Chrissie xx and Percy

Hi Chryso Your help is invaluable thank you so much and with you having to study etc, I really am so grateful for you taking the time with me here. Percy is up and down today but that's to be expected. I am looking up about staph and strep so I can see what is going on, but thank you for all the explanations you are SO kind. Thinking back over the years, it does seem he's worse with the gut problem when he moults which of course is to be expected at that time of stress etc. I did notice this morning that the staining around the droppings in his cage were a little lighter green than have been before, guess that's the effect of the dose that Daniel gave him. I haven't tried today but will mix up the portion later and see if I can give it to him (shaking...eek) or just try and get him to drink it. I really want him to get better I need him to have something at least. I will see what the other vet says tomorrow, and hopefully things will improve as each day goes on. We did a thorough clean and disinfect of his cage and everything he touches (took us 2 hours... sigh... we aren't in the best of health (Laughing out loud)). Hopefully we will do that again in a couple of days time... have to try everything to get my baby well again.... I really thought we had lost him this time. Thank you again for all your help I can't thank you enough. Good luck with the pracs.... I really hope you do well. hugs Chrissie x

Again thank you everyone, gosh you really are helping me through this. Firstly I must say that I could not face using a crop needle.... I really couldn't do it to my little darling, honestly I'd shake and be too nervous so there's no way I could do it. I printed off your message Chryso... and showed Daniel (nurse) and he got quite annoyed and said he'd been giving meds for years by syringe and he'd have known if Percy had aspirated the liquid...and that he would only use a crop needle for a parrot and then only in exceptional circumstances... I would appreciate any help Chryso if you can spare me the time please love. Yesterday I put the meds in a little drop of water and coaxed Percy into sipping some, but of course it's not the dose he needs but something it better than nothing I feel. Although still very unwell suffering this dreadful infection, he bucked up again last night and was talking a lot and was in and out of his cage (we only shut the cage overnight and when we go out, he's always out when at home) and he was brighter for a little while. What a fighter that boy is... I can't believe it. Anyway, I have booked to see another vet (exotic animals) on Friday so will see how that goes. Having a chronic illness myself this is taking its toll on me but my baby comes first so I have to do the best for him and with your help on here it's really giving me faith that he will get well. THANK YOU SO MUCH. hugs to you all Chrissie xx

Hi everyone, thank you all so much for your lovely words, they are really appreciated I can tell you and especially in my hour of need like last night and this morning. 11 p,m now. Good news and not so good news! Percy is home with us..... thank goodness no coughing or wheezing so he must have cleared it by shaking his head as he was here before we took him to the vets last night. Collected him this morning but of course he's not at all well with the infection! The not so good news is that because this vetinary nurse Daniel has said that they can't give him injections for this infection, he will still have to have the antibiotics he gave me but I said I just couldn't not give him them now orally not after last night (I would have tried had that not happened). He said to put them in some water and see if he will drink them which I have today and I've managed to get him having some but I know it's not like a full dose so I'm really unhappy about this. I am going to post the lab results here and if anyone has any comments, again I'd appreciate it very much. My avian vet is on holiday (from the same vets as Daniel) so I have booked to see another exotic animal vet about 18 miles away for Friday, just to get a different slant on things, especially the meds. Percy is moulting yet again so obviously resistance is low, he is scratching a lot too (maybe his liver disease)..... so all in all not in a good state BUT as over the 6 yrs he's been here, he still tries to be chirpy and overcome this, you can just tell. The lab results are as follows: Salmonella negative Campylobacter negative Culture and sensitivity - A heavy growth of Staphylococcus sp (1) & a Streptococcus sp (2) was isolated I have been given Clindamycin to be given over 5 days.... this is in powder to be mixed in water and given orally (which Daniel did last night with awful results). So there it is.... apparently on the results, the infection is resistant to Amoxycillin Marbofloxacin Sulph'zole/Trimeth which doesn't mean anything to me except that I was told they don't have anything specific for birds for this infection, so can only give dog/cat or human medication to them! Anyway, sorry for the long post... I'm still as worried as *** over my baby but at least he's home but I'm having to watch him go up and down..... it's really awful. Didn't think before but maybe Londbudgie is right, Percy has had this gut infection from when I first got him (on and off) and they've never found out what it was before, maybe he is a carrier...sob..... poor little soul. Thanks everyone, you have kept my spirits up today I can't thank you enough. hugs from me and Percy to you all. Chrissie xxxx

Hi guys What a lovely lot you are, I can't thank you enough for your prompt replies and words of encouragement. It's after 9 a.m. here and we have phoned the vets to ask how Percy is and were told that !"they haven't done their rounds yet... phone back after 11 a.m.!!!". To me that's cr*p service, I'm frantic here to know how things are and they can't help, just about sums them up. I'm in anger now so can write, before I found it very upsetting but it's amazing how anger sees another side of things! When I can, I am going over there to see what is going on. I just KNEW when I heard his breathing last night that it could turn into pneumonia... just knew it could go that way and I'm so devastated. I should have asked for antibiotics for his water.... but I didn't, why I never listen to my inner voice I don't know. This is the first time in 6 yrs that we've had Percy that someone has found out the problem with his gut and look how it turns out! He has always had the runny poos, green poos, not much urates, water or milky droppings and I've scoured the internet to find out what was going on, taken him to three different avian vets and one diagnosed liver disease and fatty lipoma.... but never did anything for it apart from occasional antibiotics, probiotics et al and Percy although always chirpy, has never been 100%. I really thought last night that at last we would be able to help him, that his constant fluffing up on his back over his vent, the bad droppings which were sticking to him and his tail bobbing would be over after this course of treatment... how wrong could I be! I don't know what is going to happen now, I am going over soon and hope to get back to report here when I can (I'm ill myself at the moment so things are very difficult all round). I just want to thank you all for your wonderful help and advice, but to say I'm devastated about what's happened is an understatement, I just don't know how I am going to cope over this. Thank you again guys, I'm just so thankful for this forum and some friendly people who know what it's like to have a sick bird. hugs Chrissie xx

Hi Sad to be sitting here writing this and I feel sick writing about it. Will try and keep it short. Percy unwell with gut problem, they did fecal test and it came back he has got infection... Strep something and bad growth of it (I kept telling them before but they said it was his liver problem!). Anyway my avian vet is away this week but the others gave me the result, said to take him in to get antibiotics. The exotic pet nurse Daniel was very nice, said I would have to give Percy meds orally by syringe... I've done this before lots of time even tho very stressful for me. Daniel gave him first dose whilst I was there... when I brought Percy home he was breathing noisily.... kept on and on shaking his head... was going mad as though something wrong and he kept flying to me from his cage. (I'm SO upset about this I feel ill). Phoned the vets Daniel said Percy was only stressed out which I knew he wasn't because he doesn't get stressed. As Percy was shaking his head some seed came up.... I mentioned to Daniel and he said yes that's stress. I said it wasn't and that Percy was gaping as he breathed and was sounding as tho he had a chest infection. He didn't have any of this before I took him to the vet. Anyway, they said to bring him over which I did and they have him under observation..... I'm DREADING this morning... I don't know how he will be or if he survived.... I'm gutted and distraught. I don't know how I could allow this to happen..... I shouldn't have let him do the meds.... all these things are going thru my mind I'm at my wits end. If Percy's condition hasn't changed what can I do? Does it get better or what..... and what about the rest of the meds... 4 more days.... I don't think I can do it now. Sorry to go on... I'm devastated because my little baby went thru *** last night and I'm not sure how he will be today. Has anyone had anything like this happen and how did it turn out? Would so appreciate your comments/thoughts please as I'm desperate. Thank you everyone, I can't tell you how I'm feeling right now. hugs Chrissie xx

Hi I'm so pleased you are over the moon with your "little baby", they are beautiful creatures budgies and so intelligent. My personal opinion is that it's cruel to clip a birds wing, after all they are meant to fly and as long as they are in an enclosed space (no doors and windows open) then they should be able to fly when you are around them. I liken clipping a birds wings to tying a 3ft long rope around a person's ankle and tethering it to a spot in a room, how frustrating would that be for a human? I should imagine not being able to fly for a bird must be ***. When they are young, you can train them and if you gain their confidence they will be able to fly around whilst you're there and you can keep an eye on them. My darling birds' cage is always open whilst we are home, he is able to come out when he wants as the room is secure, although he rarely comes out without us being in the room. His cage is his base, he never ventures far from it, but does fly to us and loves to play, we never have a problem getting back in the cage as that's his domain and he knows it. Enjoy your time with your lovely bird, they are a joy to be with, I hope you come to love her as much as we do our "baby boy". hugs Chrissie

Just wanted to say that my "boy" has been going thru the mill too for the past 5 years (have posted bits and bobs on here from time to time). The beak growth sounds like liver problems to me as Percy's does the same and he has liver disease (and fatty lipoma). As for his droppings, have seen them similar to the photo you have included, but they can be anything from milky water, all grey, plain water, greeny grey, sometimes dark grey, sometimes all white, soft, firm, hard... etc etc... and always tinged with green staining around the paper! He is sometimes constipated too or at least strains to go... it's a nightmare for him so I do know what you are going through Boomberry.... and boy arn't the little fella's fighters? So sorry to know yours had a stroke poor mite... hope the vet can sort him out with the latest problem... can you let me know what he says please as I am still so desperate to get Percy sorted but all the vets do is occasional antibiotic injections and I give him probiotics et al... all to no avail and it's driving me (and Percy) mad!! sigh. Good luck and keep us posted. Chrissie x

Thanks Pheobe, yes the vet did recommend it but didn't say dosage... it's for the liver disease, I just wondered if anyone else had used vit B and what they used..... yep he sure is a fighter and mostly you wouldn't think anything was wrong with him. Just wish the gut problem could be cured and we could manage quite easily to help him in other ways. Thanks pie.. will be giving him probiotics soon now... just that the injection was for a two week thing so hanging in there to see if it does help him. We just don't know how to go on with this.... it never changes... his gut and his poo's are never normal and yet no avian vet can do anything for him it seems.... I'm just fighting on alone and so is poor Percy..... and yet he shows us affection and comes to me despite him hating me giving him meds or having to wash his botty.... he always forgives..... he's my darling boy (better than humans at times (Laughing out loud)....). Thanks again everyone and if you come up with any new stuff I'd be very pleased to hear of it. Chrissie x

Have only just seen this thread, in fact I haven't been into the poems before. I think that poem is really lovely and sums up everything I feel about my darling boy..... he does mean the world to me so I understand exactly what you mean. Well done and here's hoping you write some more. Chrissie

Must add my views to this, I've heard too about not giving budgies mirrors but Percy has had several since day one, two inside his cage and two outside and he talks extremely well.... in fact too much at times (Laughing out loud). Had no problem taming him either and he LOVES coming over to me... never leaves me alone in fact... so I must say I can't agree about not giving them mirrors... I think best to try first and see how you go and at least if it's just a bird alone, he will have "company" and be able to see his own kind (viz his reflection). Chrissie