renee

Undoubtably! And I will be using both for my Spangles and Pieds but they have NO place in my breeding program of Greywings and Clearwings- hence the need to breed my own family of 100% Normals.

If you buy a PAIR OF BIRDS as a pair and a suggested pairing by the original breeder they are that breeders line not your own. I do not mean choices made by yourself. BUT I do still think they are not your own line until you have put something of your own into the mix whether it be another bird or other breeding choices. Besides I hear you Renee, like any other of us saying..."it's my Gearing bird or its my Alder bird" too ....its only when chicks arrive that they become your own sort of...and even then if they are 100% Armstrong they are still an Armstrong line and not your own. Well I tend to agree with you on that one 'cause the way I see it, it's a bit of a grey area when you buy a pair and follow the breeder's suggestions. But I would have to say that that example is more the exception to the rule. I know you've done it Kaz, and I wouldn't be surprised if you have done it too Daz, BUT most people, and I'm talking Novice breeders here, tend to buy a bird here and a bird there. Last year I put a Bob Levy hen to a Brett Wood cock (that is they were both bought birds with Levy & Wood rings on), now I don't know about you but I consider the chicks to be 100% mine and while they DO come from very respectable studs I still consider them to be composite of my breeding program. Likewise last year I bought in 10 John Kobilanski birds and 6 Carl Alder birds and I have kept 'the families' together, that is I paired Kobilanski birds to Kobilanski and Alder to Alder birds. I chose the pairingfs according to my breeding program and while of course I will refer to the progeny as Kobilanski family and Alder family I still consider them to be of my bloodline. Notwithstanding the above, in all honesty I do not think you can really say you have your OWN 'bloodline' till you are an Intermediate breeder because by then you will have a had at least 3-4 breeding seasons under your belt and your flock will be a TRUE mixture of all your bought and bred birds. I should add that I'm not really a fan of the term BLOODLINE, I would rather see people refer to Genetics and Families.

If I breed Armstrong to armstong it will still be an armstrong blood line. But if I start to breed Armstrong to Ganzer it becomes an Armstrong / Ganzer. As soon as bird has your ring on it it is Your bloodline. No I would disagree. But every Breeder has their view on this. This is what I do. I have may own line which has the combinations in the back ground. I gave up when I paired a Ganzer/Blair & Polle to a Hollingworth / Holmes & Howard. instead of a Ganzer / Blair & Poole / Hollingsworth / Holmes & Howard bird. I called this a D. Wells bird. I agree with Daz's line of thinking. Breeding say an Armstrong bird to an Armstrong bird still makes the chicks Armstrong chicks and not my bloodline. My bloodline will result from my legring on 3 generations or so down the track I would say of my choices in breeding partners. If birds come from a breeder as a Pair to be bred to each other then they are still that breeders bloodline not my own. Hmmmmm. I disagree. The way I see it YOU chose the pairings and therefor the resulting chicks are a product of YOUR breeding program and as a direct result composite of YOUR bloodline/flock. Just because you have a few Armstrong birds and you decide to pair them together does not mean that they are not YOURS. I think many people hold on to the Gearing, Armstrong, Ganzer, etc., etc., etc. myth of bloodlines because it is like holding on to a well known brand and in a way lends more respectability to their flock. It is like saying, 'Oh my birds are not jujst any birds, they have this and that behind them'. At the end of the days it is GENETICS not Bloodlines that determines the features of your flock.

I mean I need to breed a line of pure Normals (without Opaline or Cinnamonwing) for my Greywings and Clearwings.

Photos? :yes:

How often do you clean out the sand? Once a month!!!! My hubby goes in and rakes up leaves and husks (there is a metal grid under the perches so most of the poo is inaccessible to the budgies), removes the grid and sweeps up the poo and then uses an outdoor brush to even and smooth over. Once every few months he'll top up the sand from our stockpile round the side so that there's always 4-5cm sand. I bought in 2 trailers worth of washed white sand, the stuff they use for children's sand pits. On the base, on the pavers we originally put down 1 inch Garden Lime. Gone are the days of weekly scrubbing on bended knee!! :yes:

Yes Neville, I had thought of that. It's more of a case that I have this Violet split Cinnamon and I don't want to breed Violet Cinnamons and I'm certainly not interested in 'dirtying' my Normal line with Cinnamon ... so what to do with him? :budgiedance:

As soon as bird has your ring on it it is Your bloodline. However, you may choose to refer to its bloodlines by indicating where the forefathers came from. Many breeders do that when they sell their birds at auction.... They'll say Normal Green from Armstrong x Gearing line.

Try again in a new post Elsie, your photobucket links didn't work so we can't see your budgies.

How do you know she's YF2?

Those floors are looking good! I remember the days when my hubby scrubbed the floors once a week! Now we have sand and it's sooooooo much easier!

Here's a useful tip for beginners: Before you introduce your chosen pair into a breeding cabinet, pop them into a small cage and watch them for 1/2 day. If they attack each other then separate, if they start kissing and canoodling put them into the breeding cabinet. It's worth popping the hen into the cabinet first for a couple of days so she gets used to her surroundings. Then introduce the cock bird and block off the hole to the nest box for 3 days so courting can commence. Unblock the hole and hopefully you should get fertile eggs within the week.

A question for those breeders who have been around a while: I have a lovely Normal Violet cock bird who after last year's breeding season I have discovered is split for Cinnamonwing. I am aware that running Cinnamon thru the cock bird will enhance the buttercup yellow colour of the Lutino ... but how will the Violet factor modify, if at all the Lutino? All experienced opinions welcome!

I also have a kindie cage and bubs will stay there till I see them flying around and looking strong. If one has had a challenged start to life I will wait till it's passed its first moult. I am a bit hesitant about leaving fledged chicks (ie 31/2-4weeks old) in the breeding cabinet when parents are going down for another round 'cause I lost 3 chicks to scalping last year .... and YES they were wonderful looking chicks as well. So I will give the chicks lots of millet in the nest box and within 3-5 days of emerging from it I will pop them into the kindie cage AND if necessary I will crop feed them for a few days but most of the time older chicks will feed the newbies. I should add that I keep the young uns separate from adults in their own separate aviary till they reach the 6 month mark.

Except when your birds start dropping like flies..... and then Ooooops Too Late. That's funny- mine does the same thing ...... We must have the same make of camera!

It seems I am saying the same thing again and again here, but what the ***, I will say it again. I did not just make up a quarantine procedure. Before I went away, i consulted my avian vet for advice, and I have followed this advice. I suppose once everyone else on here has graduated as an avian vet, and they have over 30 years experience treating injured wildlife, especially birds, on a daily basis, I will follow their ideas and thoughts, but until that day comes, I think i will just trust my avian vet as he tends to be more knowledgeable than the anonymous writers on an internet based website. Regarding avian vets. No two vets think alike. Some will tell you to do exactly what you have done and others will tell you the opposite. I am well aware I am not a vet and was not purporting to be one. All I was giving was my point based on 20 years of breeding budgies and experience gained in agriculture. I only used anti biotics as a last resort. Not every vet is a good vet but if ya get a good one stick to them. Tim Oldfield would be the best in the west for birds. RIP the quarentine program that is pinned and that we advocate everyone follow is, I believe, based on Tim Oldfield's advice. Last March I bought in some birds from another breeder who rarely medicates his birds and applies the 'tough love' approach. I popped an outstanding breeding hen into a nest box and chucked the rest into my large outside aviary. The hen carked it within the week and I lost an outstanding Dominant Pied cock to pooey bums the next week. I refuse to loose anymore birds that way. I will be purchasing some top outcrosses in March and this time they're going into my quarentine cage and on doxy for a preventative measure. Why do I advocate the doxy tratment ahead of the breeding season for all birds? Because I accept the wise advice of Gary Armstrong, one of our State's top breeders who has had his share of disasters and come through it all. I would like to add that the advocated doxy program is 6 days doxy/1 day water AND I encourage it be followed up with at least a week of probiotics.

I really don't know- but breeding takes its toll on the hens.

How long is a piece of string? You pay top dollar at auction because you are competing with others for the same bird. If you have a good personal relationship with the breeder you have a better chance of benefiting from their generosity. I think it's safe to say Show budgies range from $30 to thousands. And supply and demand do affect the market.

Yes, he is definitely a boy and a Yellowface Recessive Pied.

There was a company called MetalLand or something like that which used to do the job but they stopped a couple of years ago. Kaz's idea is a good one, or else you could try Ebay or BirdWorld in Balcatta- they have quite a few second-hand aviaries.

Liv, this is very good advice. I understand the temptation to mate 2 birds from top studs together ... but I wouldn't chose these 2 to do it with.

Dean has given you good advice Jen. Please heed it - especially the bit about transmitting you anxiety to the hen.

Hip Hip Horay! :anim_19:

Wow! Does anyone have any photos?

Interesting. In that case why weren't more affected?