renee

I like the definitions. I personally understand that when someone refers to a bird coming from good bloodlines they mean that that bird is the progeny of a family of winning birds, which in turn means that its genetic makeup is out of the ordinary.

I have a radiator that I ran last winter but with electricity prices due to increase by 40% I am considering what to do. In the end I probably will let the birds tell me what to do- and go on a bread and water regime ....

I have had this experience when some birds from a particular breeder just won't survive in my aviary. Since those experiences I have tried to eradicate Megabacteria with 2 rounds of Fungilin at the end of last year, 2 preventative courses of Carlox prior to that and now just recently the Doxy treatment. Cross fingers my flock is free of any nasties. I'm afraid to turn into an overmedicator myself so from now on my birds will get apple cider, iodine and calcivet in the water and little else.

You've done well Kaz, that's an excellent illustration.

Well Daz I sympathise with how you feel 'cause I felt exactly the same way when I read Splat's journal! The last 2 years I waited till Easter, but this time I just can't wait that long ....

Thank you guys for all your support! When I get round to preparing the breeding cabinets in a couple of weeks, I'll post some photos. (I'm better at stills than live budgies!)

I have set my start date for this year's breeding season for the first week of April ... and I've already started preparing. Because I have a mixed aviary, this year I'll be catching up my hens in mid-March and putting them into a holding cage for 2 weeks. This way I'll be 100% certain that the chicks are a product of the pairs I've chosen. Because we have so much sand we've decided to trial putting sand into the breeding cabinets. You may recall from previous posts that last year I used Fussy Cat Litter and this did work well but I noticed that it did come with a lot of powder that added to feather dust made a dusty breeding room- and I was vacuuming every other day.... Also I have decided to put Zeolite in the nest boxes. I don't use wooden concaves, I fill the nest boxes 2inches full and let the hens fossick about and make themselves at home. At the moment all birds are getting a 2 day treatment of KD Powder which does a good job of 'cleaning them out' then I'll give them S76 for lice and some worms followed by the rest of the week on probiotics (I gave them a total worming last week). From next week on they get the 'breeding' water regime: 2 days apple cider and iodine and Calcivet, 2 days KD Powder, 2 days apple cider and iodine and Calcivet, 1 day probiotics. I'll start with 3 drops iodine per liter and slowly increment till I reach 6 drops. Iodine helps with budgie libido. On the practical front, my hubby is busy putting castor rollers on all breeding banks; we've rearanged the breeding room to allow more space for holding cabinets; and I'll be picking up some more Arcadia lighting fluoros from the pet store ($45 for 4ft tube). Between you and me I may have missed the boat 'cause most of my hens seem to have deep chocolate ceres, but I'll a bit more critical in a fortnight's time. It may be the case that I only put them down for 1 round.... As I said, I just can't wait!!!

Fingers crossed your horse came through for you!

I draw the line at chucking them on the barbie! No, the slackers go straight into the Retirement Village.

Gorgeous photos Dave! I hope Caesar pulls up well and join his friends outside soon

Oh Nyaree, so sorry about your little blue stunner. Yes! It is always the way unfortunately. Glad to hear your breeding is going well. As for your grumpy hen, sometimes you get one like that I'm afraid. I have 2 from last year that gave me nothing but grief but I am an optimist at heart and will try again with them this year- they better b*****y well get their acts together or it's the chopping block for them

Lovely birds! Good Luck Splat!!!!

Judges will disqualify budgies without the requisite tail feather so I wouldn't put her in if she's lacking it. I have a bought bird who won't grow a tail feather, he's a survivor of French Moult.

Thank You Daryl. I was feeling in the minority with my opinions on "bloodlines"! But the thing is Liv, we have all looked at your Greygreen Gearing and Armstrong birds and recommended you NOT pair them together because they won't compliment each other as well as other options you have available. But still you are tempted because you like the idea of having progeny from 2 top WA studs. Now I will garentee you that if either Gary Armstrong or Cec Gearing looked at that pair they wouldn't put them together either.So this is a prime example of "bloodlines" gone askew. You are tempted to prioritize the bloodlines ahead of visual compatibility.And this is the big danger of paying homage to the holy bloodlines when you are a beginner Novice, and believe me Liv I made the same mistakes in my first year breeding, you think nothing can go wrong 'cause you've got top birds. This is why so many top breeders do NOT want their name used at auction under description of Background BECAUSE people come along and mess things up with dreadful pairings and then try to pass the bird off as coming from their stud.I am not sure Liv thinks that Renee. I know that Liv is well aware that any bird or pairing can have an issue. I think it is a little bit presumptuos to assume that any of us knows the way that other people think.I think that as Novice breeders of showbirds we all are unsure of what to pair to what. Yes, we think of bloodlines, but that is because we are told that these breeders have good birds.I remember those 2 birds that I bought off the Gearings. You automatically looked at the better looking bird and went "the blue is the nicest" and to a judge, many would agree, but if you ask Cec on which one is the best to put down to stud, he will tell you the grey, as he has "better bloodlines"Now, Cec Gearing uses these terms and he is an experienced breeder who has achieved more than I could ever dream of achieving. Shoudl we discount his thoughts?I was just using Liv's Greygreens as an example, no more should be read into it. As a matter of fact I have had a discussion with Cec about Bloodlines and he recommended I refer to GENETICS instead.

But the thing is Liv, we have all looked at your Greygreen Gearing and Armstrong birds and recommended you NOT pair them together because they won't compliment each other as well as other options you have available. But still you are tempted because you like the idea of having progeny from 2 top WA studs. Now I will garentee you that if either Gary Armstrong or Cec Gearing looked at that pair they wouldn't put them together either. So this is a prime example of "bloodlines" gone askew. You are tempted to prioritize the bloodlines ahead of visual compatibility. And this is the big danger of paying homage to the holy bloodlines when you are a beginner Novice, and believe me Liv I made the same mistakes in my first year breeding, you think nothing can go wrong 'cause you've got top birds. This is why so many top breeders do NOT want their name used at auction under description of Background BECAUSE people come along and mess things up with dreadful pairings and then try to pass the bird off as coming from their stud.

The trouble is, we're not vets and without seeing him it's virtually impossible to say. It could be air sac mites, in which case the ivermectin should help. He might have a hole in his crop .... As I said, it's very difficult.

Well I can tel you from experience that a joint breeding program is NOT as easy as you might initially hope! Good news on the eggs! Now let's hope they're fertile, they hatch, and that the parents feed them!!!! Easier said than done

Ooooh, It's exciting isn't it?! I'd like to get started again but I'm sticking to giving them all a 3 month break.

But there's a significant difference between calling a bird your own and referring to its 'line' or stud as your own. As you rightly point out, it takes many years of line breeding to establish a stud. If I sell a bird it is a bird I have sold. End of story. It is no longer my bird and I have no automatic say about its future. Actually I wouldn't be at all surprised if the term BLOODLINE actually came out of the line breeding concept. And as I mentioned earlier, I believe it takes at least 4 breeding season to establish a stud. But here's the rub, not everyone line breeds .... Just for clarification purposes: MY BIRD - is a bird I have bought or has my ring on it A BIRD I'VE BRED - is self-explanatory MY LINE - refers to 'family' or line breeding I say as soon as you breed you are establishing your own 'Bloodline'. Although I believe it takes longer to estblish your own stud. Anyway, that's how I see it.

Well I have to agree with that. I too have approached breeders and let them know if one of my bird's comes from their stud. It's still my bird though. It's just that I find the term bloodline so contentious. On the MBC forum George made that valid point that there is a significant difference between a Collection of birds and a Stud. The characteristic of a stud being that you can identify a bird from a stud without having to check its ring, the features being so clearly recognizable.... More food for thought.

I disagree. I chose so and so's stud as my foundation and I paid for their birds, MY choice. I created conditions for them to live happily, I feed them, I attend to their health, I breed them. I am not taking away from the benefits of buying top birds from winning studs, I am not saying that I am not eternally grateful for being given the opportunity of buying those birds in the first place. All I am saying is that at the end of the day I take full responsibility and credit when they are happy, healthy birds with desirable features. :budgiedance:

Well done Macka! :budgiedance:

So when your birds have done well at shows I guess you take absolutely no credit whatsoever?

I don't think I mentioned showing, did I? :budgiedance: Just leg rings. But now you've brought it up, I don't think Bloodlines are particularly relevant to the non-showing breeder. I mean a 'bloodline' becomes a commodity once that breeder has something to show for his/her breeding program. The way we determine that is how well they do on the show bench, be that at the local Club level or at Nationals. It's the same way with the ANBC Standard, it only becomes relevant if you are breeding to it NOT if your goal is to breed "pretty" budgies. And yes, I think we're on the same page in so far as 4 years into breeding I would say you have your own distinct bloodline, irrespective if you're showing or not. But back to showing, if I do well with one of my own bred birds I would describe it as "a bird I bred" and if someone would press me for details I'd say yes the forefathers came from this or that stud. But as for Bloodline ... I think it's a highly contentious term and I am much happier, as I said before, referring to birds as being of such and such FAMILY or possessing someone's GENETICS.

Congratulations Splat on your results! :budgiedance: I REALLY like the babies out of your DF- they are stunning!