armchairangel

OMG I laughed so loud and hard at the carpet one that my husband told me I should go in the other room if I was going to keep doing that!

Wow... yeah. Their cage should be lower. It occured to me this evening as I was looking across the room at the birds that we spend almost all of our time in the living room *sitting down*. So the birds would always be higher than us on the fireplace, with the exception of when we stand directly at their cage. Where they're at now, they're at eye level to us when we're sitting.

Yup... there's still hope. I can't remember who it was that said so, but it took months for their birds to even acknowledge them! Patience is key. I was so surprised when this happened. Heh, try moving them into a different room, like what happened with us! *L* Shock them into being friendly. *L* And no, they don't continue to seem afraid or nervous, they're their regular little old selves. When i move the cage, Psyche looks at me with the funniest expression on her face, almost like she likes it. Cupid reaches for my finger now when I bring it to him! I moved stuff around so they're about 2 feet lower than they were. I noticed that when i'd do something in the cage, they'd hop up to their highest perch, which was above my head. Hopefully this will help a little. It will be good to get them to a point where I can let them out a little bit now and then for extra exercise.

Remembering something familiar makes a lot of sense. I actually didn't have any millet for them, just a slow moving, persistent finger. I had thought that treating them would be a good thing, but couldn't quite figure out the gymnastics of getting both hands in there, one to sit on and one to hold the millet. I suppose in the future I can use it to get him used to me moving him - move him towards the millet (which I'm holding on the outside of the cage). Moving him to Psyche seemed to work, so the treat should too. I'll see if I can post where their cage is now. They are on top of the fireplace in the corner. The ceiling is really low there, so its less than a foot above their cage. The sides of their cage are kind of sheltered too because the fireplace is set at an angle. They're at eye level for me. I was wondering if having such a sheltered, high place where they live has made them kind of resistant to taming. That if they were a little lower and their cage wasn't as protected if they'd be easier to work with. In the room I was working with them, they were on the bed, all sides open and I was sitting next to them (instead of having to kind of reach up to them). Would keeping the cage in a lower place make us seem more dominant and them more friendly?

It makes a lot of sense that they're scared of you. Kinda funny how they're more comfortable on the ground though. *L* Maybe they think they can run away easier? Hooray for birdies liking their veggies! And good luck getting them to like your kids. It sounds like they're doing great though. Keep it up!

Tooooo cuuuuuute!! I love it when dogs are so tolerant to other species, especialliy when they're little (the others). My old dog grew up with conures and he never thought to hurt them either.

Oh wow... what an adventure!! That must have been so tough for you... I get really attached to my animals too and I know how tough it is to decide what treatment they should get and when its time to let them go. You did the right thing. I'm glad Ice made it through with flying colors. It is amazing how strong and resilient the little guys can be. I'm sure that he'll be happy in his new home and he very well might like to have Candy back with him (and she probably will like it too).

Just today, in about a 10 or 15 minute session, I got Cupid to step up repeatedly and sit on my finger in his cage!!! Probably not more than 5 minutes after I started, he tasted my finger - not chomping, but gently touching it with his beak and tongue. And it was just a few minutes after that that I got him to put one and then both feet on my finger! He let me rub his tummy and he would sit on my finger long enough where I'd have to make him get off so I could reposition myself! I ignored Psyche, lavishing praise on Cupid, talking to him nonstop, cooing and clucking and kissing at him. A couple of times she had to come over and investigate and I continued to ignore her for the most part, other than saying hello. She would get too nervous and have to move away. But when I finally got Cupid to sit on my finger, it was right next to her and she didn't seem too nervous. I kept the session short, ending on a good note and came back to them a few minutes later and repeated the whole thing. I think I did 4 or maybe more different little sessions with them, each time with great success. I'd move Cupid close to Psyche and she would tolerate a TON more - she let me touch her without freaking out or trying to move away at all! By the time I was done tonight, she let me touch her without Cupid nearby. I can't' believe we made so much progress in such a few short little sessions! I'm wondering if where we're keeping their cage has something to do with this because it all happened in a different room in a completely different way than I usually interact with them. I went on at length describing their normal setting and where i worked with them, but for some reason I'm not able to post it. I'll see if it will work now and add the details later.

Things haven't been posted here for a while. How are things going with your birds? I've been working on taming my two monsters the past couple of weeks too. THey were pretty skittish and I haven't even let them out of the cage yet because I want to be able to rescue them if need be - they've been rather afraid of us. It sounds like you have it good when they're out of their cage. I've received TONS of great ideas for settling them down and stuff and in following the suggestions, I've been putting my hands in and out of the cage several times a day to move toys around, feed them veggies and do some foraging things too. I also take their food and water dishes out daily to clean and freshen and stuff. When I'm doing all this stuff, I talk to them but otherwise pretty much ignore them. So they've gotten used to my hand coming and going with nothing bad happening to them, and sometimes good things come to them. Tonight I've had a HUGE breakthrough and I really think that if they weren't used to my hand moving around and stuff in there, I don't think it would have happened. Another idea that I have, which I don't know if its very valid or not cuz I'm a new bird person, is I wonder if they're being somewhat territorial? They're fine outside of their house, but don't like it or are afraid when its in their house. One thing that I've been suggested a few times for helping with a number of problems is to move their perches and toys around weekly. I'm not sure if this is good for them cuz its more stimulating to have their environment changed, or if it helps them be more friendly because they're feeling less 'in charge' of their home. Like I said, I'm new at all of this, so I don't know if it really would apply to your situation. I give my birds their veggies in a bowl with a little bit of seed sprinkled on top. And I also don't let them have other seed available when the veggies are there. Then at a different time I have the seed out for them. And yeah, if they pick at the seeds that are on the veggies, they're getting a little bit of taste and hopefully the nutrition from the good stuff. It takes a lot of time for many people to get their budgies to eat veggies.

Ewww!!! Bird regurgitation in the mouth... re-eating seeds from fingers.... *shudders* But its oh so sweet too! And really cool that they love you that much!

Shell, thanks for sharing your experience! When I got home from school this afternoon, Jared had moved them to the middle room. I went in to visit them and they seemed fine and now I can hear their chirping quietly through the closed door. I'll have to move them back soon so they don't get too lonely in there. It seems like they aren't as noisy when i'm home. At least it seems like he complains about them making much more noise than they do when I'm around all day. Whether he's more sensitive to them or they actually are making more noise I can't really know. Could it be possible taht they miss me? I suppose then that it might help if jared gives them more attention so they can see him as good company too when I'm not there, yes? I'd love to let them exercise in the house, but they're not tame enough yet. At least they didn't freak out when Jared moved the cage, so they're getting somewhere. This semester is finally done, so I'll be around all day for the next three weeks. Hopefully I can try some new things and work more consistently on taming them so they can be let out for exercise. Shredding toys.... sounds messy! *L* Not that it would really be any more mess than there already is.... Are they made of paper? Maybe I can just make my own. Oh yeah, and I'm moving their furniture around about weekly to keep them from breeding too, so that's already going on for them. I hope some day my husband will love them too, but they're totally different than Baby, the bird his family has had for the past 15 years. We adore her and the other two are just completely different. I'm learning to see and appreciate and like them as individuals, but I'm sure its tougher for him having had such a sweet, tame strong little girl for so long. Maybe it will be easier when they're the only ones too. Who knows... it will only take time...

Oh the whispering thing sounds so cute!! I'll have to see how my guys respond to it...

Yeah, I don't know if outside would be the answer right now. Living in Minnesota makes it WAY too cold in the winter, even when its unseasonably warm. Today its just a few degrees above freezing. Although it does sound like a good idea when it gets warmer. And yeah, they make noise at noise. The dishwasher running. The TV. Us talking. Anything that has sound on the computer. When we play music. etc etc I'll see about timing their foraging to stave off the noisy periods. They've acutally been kind of quiet the past few days. Maybe they know we're talking about them. *L* I was kind of afraid that we'd just have to get used to it. For the most part their noise is short lived, so hopefully it won't take too long to just not really be able to hear it much anymore. Not sure how my husband will feel about this, but what can you do? *L* Now, to practice those acceptance skills.....

Heheheh we're very proud of all our animals! (yes, even mechanical ones *L*)

A number of people mentioned they wanted to see more pics of Baby. My husband got a new camera for christmas and took his first pictures today. http://www.flickr.com/photos/armchairdeity...57594333776911/ There are a number of them, you can scroll through like a photoalbum sort of thing. Unfortunately, we don't have any pics of her when she's not all full of pinfeathers. *L* She had the cere overgrowth of old females until I learned it can be pulled off. You can see the difference between then and now.

The real reason why I started posting here was because Cupid and Psyche were really starting to get on our nerves because they were so loud and obnoxious. Cupid was constantly courting Psyche and it seemed like she was getting really irritated by it and she'd flap around the cage screaming at him. They'd do the monotonous loud chirping that wouldn't stop. It was driving us crazy!! I had been wondering if giving them a nest box would make Psyche less crabby towards him in case she wasn't feeling like she had a good place to nest and that's why she didn't want all his attention. They were so enamored with each other at the pet store and the first week or so we had them, it was confusing to see them so cross with each other. So then I learned some things - that they shouldn't be breeding. That they should be covered for 12 hours a day to prevent it and that their furniture can be moved around often to discourage it too. I started them foraging for some of their food and added fruit and veggies and pellets to their diet. I gave them a few new toys. I also learned that Psyche's cere was indicating that she isn't in breeding condition anymore. I learned what some of their calls meant and that a lot of their behavior was just normal keet stuff. Their (or mostly Psyche's) behavior started improving almost immediately. I came to the conclusion that Psyche was probably crabby cuz she just wasn't in the mood anymore (perhaps hormones playing a part in it too) and they didn't have enough brain and body stimulation. However, they're not perfect yet. From about 1 to 3 in the afternoon, they're noisy in a rather irritating way. They'll do their 'where are you?' "I'm here" call for minutes on end and Psyche will bicker at Cupid, sounding like she's really irritated with him, chasing all over the cage. Cupid has developed a call that sounds like he's saying F*** you! There aren't consonants in it at all, but the intonation and accents are exactly like how one would say it. Its kind of funny, but he does it over and over and its about as bad as the "I'm here!". They do a lot of the monotonous call when I get up and leave the room or go to an adjoining area (they do this at all times of day). Realizing what they're saying, I'll call out to them myself, "oh, its okay, I'm just going to the bathroom." It usually ends things relatively quickly. I can block them out for the most part, but my husband has issues with it. He works from home doing computer programming and they're VERY distracting to him. They used to make it difficult for us to have a conversation they'd be so loud, and while that has diminished a bit, it still happens during this time frame. He gets really upset with them. While nothing has been thrown at their cage yet, sometimes we end up yelling at them. I know this is bad. I feel bad for doing it. So I'm looking for suggestions. We dont' want to move them to a different room because they'd never get people contact since we're always in this one. I also mentioned the idea of Jared working in a different room, but there were reasons for him choosing this spot that are more important. I'm not sure if him moving in the middle of the day would work either. Jared will get up from his chair and go in front of their cage and talk to them, telling them to shut up or he'll bite their heads off in nice conversational tones instead of yelling. They quiet down while he's there, but as soon as he goes back to work they're at it again. He's taken to covering their cage when he can't take their noise anymore. He told me that when Baby was their age she would have noisy times like this too and they'd just cover her cage when it got to be too much. Is covering their cage an acceptable means of controlling obnoxious noise levels? Do you think they might need more people interaction if us going by them quiets them? Are there better ways to deal with this? I kind of am getting the impression that they're not doing anything abnormal, that this is just normal keet behavior, but it still is difficult to live with.

Baby loves birdie bread! But she prefers it dried out. I'm keeping it in the fridge in a ziploc bag. I'm wondering if letting the bread sit out till it dries is okay, or if it'll start to go bad in that amount of time. Can you think of better, more reliable way of drying it? Perhaps microwaving it a bunch?

They didn't do much to the tomato that I could tell, but they sure liked the parsley. The little holes they leave in the leaves are so cute! *L*

I have 2 birdies who love veggies right off the bat! Carrots, snow peas, spinach and apples have all been big hits right off the bat. I've discovered they like big chunks better than little pieces, by offering them both at the same time. They like their spinach in the food bowl too, instead of hanging. I put a little bit of seed in with the veggies so they can see its food and evidently, it did the trick. Today we're seeing if they'll demolish tomatoes and parsley too. I'm so glad that Cupid and Psyche are doing SOMEthing worth cheering about. *L* Baby likes her birdie bread and I suppose that if she'll eat some of that every day, its good enough since there's so much nutrition in it. She's getting really irritated with me shoving new things in her face all the time. *L* I've discovered that if there's a little bit of seed on it, she'll peck at it, so hopefully she'll learn in time and in the meantime get teeny bits of the good stuff too. I'm so sneaky! *L*

Yes, the peace of mind is nice to have. She really is a fighter, a strong willed good little bird. Today she's looking MUCH better even yet! The vet said that we'd be able to notice if the medicine is helping by Monday, but today she's already holding her tail straighter, is more active and vocal. Amazing little thing she is! She took her medicine pretty well today too. All of these positive comments make me feel really proud to have her! *beaming*

Yeah, we thought the kisses thing was kinda cool too - she even picked at his beard a little! I'll see if Jared can do more pics, though she's rather ratty looking because of her molt. Of course, sometimes they look cuter when they're raggedy though, in a sort of pathetic way. *L* She's biting at pellets I hand feed her and I think she likes the birdie bread too, which is a good sign, so we can get more nutrients in her instead of just the fattening seeds. Thanks everyone!

At 15, Baby was awesome during her first trip to the vet! She didn't seem to mind being in the transport container (seemed a little confused by the clear walls, at first, but she didn't freak out at all) and the trip was short, warm and uneventful. She even started cheeping a little bit in the waiting room! She readily got onto the perch they offered her and sat there most of the time, flying to Jared or I a few times. The vet was very kind to her, interacted with her like we do. She climbed onto his finger without hesitation and proceeded to give him kisses. She didn't protest at her exam at all and she seemed relatively comfortable the entire time. They checked her poops and she doesn't have any parasites (thank goodness cuz it would be rather traumatic for all involved to try to medicate the other two monsters *L*). The lump on her chest is just her crop, rather large and hanging down. *L* They thought she was at a decent weight. She doesn't have problems breathing. She holds her tail kind of funny, and it seems like she might have an encysted feather. However, the vet looked at how she flew, how she sat on his finger and the perch and thought she might have some hind end paresis or something going on. He thought she was wobbly because she was trying to balance better and it seemed to him that her legs probably weren't as strong as they should be. He thought this might be due to a kidney tumor or something, basically a result of her old age. She doesn't seem to be having an issue with her kidneys yet, so he didn't seem too worried about it (not to mention there isn't much that can be done about it either). We have antibiotics to give her for 2 weeks to see if it will help the feather. If it doesn't, all we really need to do is keep her comfortable. There could be anti-inflammatories in the future, but we'll see how she does with taking medicine regularly and if this will help her become a little more mobile if its just a painful infected feather. He thought she was a really really neat little bird, one of the most interactive keets he's seen. He thought she looked really good for her age too. Other than trying to get her to eat some more pellets than seed, he didn't think we need to be doing anything more for her. He was concerned about giving her too much vitamins if she's getting some with her food. So we have a fairly okay bird, some possible age related issues, but nothing terribly alarming or pressing. She has been acting and looking like she's feeling better since that night, so it looks like things will be just fine. I'm proud of our little old girl! And its nice to know that we're doing her well.

It seems like Cupid and Psyche have been into all the stuff I've given them so far. They adore apples, the carrot was gnawed on and I think they tasted the pepper a little too. As I introduce more things, how much of the fresh are they supposed to have each day? Is little cut up pieces better than bigger chunks? I was thinking about making a salad for them in a bowl each day and giving them their seed/pellet mix too. They really like the foraging stuff I've started and I thought that I could have the fresh stuff sitting there for them most of the day (til they get icky) and add the seed through foraging, as they love digging through the bottom of their cage for the spilled seed after they tear open the packets. I'd like them to eat a good balance of the two, instead of most of one. Would it be better to have the seed out and forage for fresh? Or would they mostly eat the seed then cuz its more available? What are some different ways that people offer the different foods?

The husband and I had fun picking out fruits and veggies to try tonight. We brought home red, yellow and orange sweet peppers, an apple, spinach, parsley, and yellow and orange tomatoes. We have carrots at home already. Baby is pretty investigative if I hold things up for her and she's gotten a few good hacks at a carrot and a pepper. She kind of attacks them, but I figure even if she gets just a teeny bit on her beak or whatever, its better than nothing. I left a chunk of carrot in the pair's food bowl and it looks like they were chewing on it, so that's a good sign. When i got home, I made up a forage packet with some pepper in it along with their seeds. They demolished it but its kinda tough to tell if they actually ate any of the pepper. There is a little chunk way over on the other side of the cage, so I suppose that's promising too. Baby likes to chew on my fingernails, so I figured if I put some good stuff under there it would be a good way to get a little bit of it in her. I know, gross, but what else should I try? What are good ways of starting birds on fresh foods? I'm gonna make the birdie bread tomorrow and see how they like that too.

thanks! She's already made leaps and bounds at looking better. I'm now having fun trying to get her to eat new things. *L* She took a beakful of yogurt and a small taste of an orange pepper, but she was getting irritated at me shoving things in her face. *(Laughing out loud)* I don't want to push it TOO much, but if I keep at it a little bit several times a day, she just might get a little bit of what she needs.