armchairangel

I didn't realize that the holding method was controversial! I guess I can understand why though. And Jared did hold her very loosely - his hands were cupped together, and he has big hands! *L* Of course she was being stressed regardless and we feel bad about doing it to her. It makes sense that being held after a 'chase' would be even more scary than if it were used alone. We are going to think twice about doing this again! And lovey, you didn't come across sounding bad, not at all. I was only trying to explain the mindset we had in doing it - teaching vs cuddling.

I guess I was thinking that holding her was part of the one kind of taming technique... The one where you just hold them in a very small room till they stop freaking out; the one to use for younger birds. We're not focusing on doing it that way, but I figured if the opportunity was there we could use that too. Maybe I misunderstood what it was supposed to be about, or i'm remembering it wrong. *L*

Yesterday was a difficult day with our animals. In addition to one of our snakes having a really rough feed, Psyche had a scary moment or three with us too. She was out and we were getting ready to leave, so we had to get her back in the cage. She's the less tame of the two, so trying to get her to step up was onlyl making her fly around the room again. She flew and flew, and eventually Jared was able to catch her in his hands. Instead of just immediately putting her in the cage, he held her for a while, to get her to settle down and let her see that hands and people arent' bad things. She chewed on his hand really good (there's still marks there today!), but he didn't respond. He brought her millet and she actually was eating it, on her back. She seemed relatively calm and okay. Once he put her back in the cage, she casually hopped out of his hands instead of flying like mad and flapping all over the cage. But she got on a perch and held her wings away from her body and did weird things with her beak. We at first thought she was posturing like she was really mad at him, but then she stopped moving her beak and continued with the wings, kind of shaking and stuff. It was then that we realized she was probably overheated! She had flown and flown and flown and then was held in a close warm spot. Jared said taht his hands felt pretty warm. Poor little girl! Luckily she was fine and not afraid of us when we got back from dinner. I hope we don't overheat her again! We did feel that holding her was necessary though, so she could be handled for emergencies and stuff. I mean if she couldn't take being held and fed millet, how would she be able to stand a vet exam? Ughh the trials of learning with animals!

I can't remember where I read it, but I've heard that budgies can't be potty trained (or maybe it was that they shouldn't?). I've lived with a couple of conures and a cockatoo who were trained like above and that was fine. They spent a lot of time on the top of their cage and on a t-perch too, which helped a lot. Maybe focusing on the not so bad aspects of budgie poop will help, as well as weighing the ickiness to the joy we get from them being out of their cage. We love the sound of their wings flapping as they fly around the room! I wish we could cover our furniture, but its brand new leather, and frankly, we'd like to see, smell and touch it! We have taken to putting a blanket over the back of the couch where Baby has taken to sitting, which helps a bunch. Hopefully the other two will find a favorite place or two soon rather than just fly aroudn the room. We're planning on getting them a playground soon too, so that might help. I'll have to read more on the potty training thing though..... if nothing else but to get them to go before we let them out. That was a good article! They made some good points, and probably, the most important thing to remember with training budgies is their need to go often. And it sounds like its not so much a 'dont go unless I tell you' thing, but showing them where to go and encouraging them to go in the right place.

Yeah, I don't think they're TOO bad, compared to some of the other animal waste I've had to deal with, but I think that having the poop in our regular living space is what bothers my husband. I do try to pick up what I see when I see it, but I always miss it, and we always step in it when its cold and wet. *L*

You and I are in similar places with training/taming our budgies. Mine have been coming out now for 2 or 3 days. The first mistake I made was not having anything for them to do the first time they came out. Its been easier for me because we have a third, VERY tame budgie, so she does a lot of encouraging. I created the 'training plate' which I put all kinds of goodies on and they get to have a little feast when they come out. I mostly keep them right by the opening of their cage so they can go right back in if they get too afraid. But inevitably, they decide to fly anyway. I'm sure you've read it before, but an important thing to remember (and its difficult to do when your babies are fluttering around in what seems to be a panic) is not to chase them when they fly away. I've found that mine will fly around and usually come back to their cage, and if they go somewhere else, I follow them at a distance and when they land I slowly approach them to see if they'll step up on my finger so I can bring them back home. It seems to work pretty well for us. Good luck adn let us know how it goes!

Now that we have 3 birds flying around the house a number of times a day, there's poop everywhere! How do you deal with bird poop? I know there really isn't any way to potty train them, so i'm looking for creative ideas to combat stepping in fresh poop, poop on the walls, on the couch, on our things, etc. I know it would be easiest if we could confine them to a single room, but our setup doesn't allow for that. The bedrooms and office aren't bird friendly (and we're not in there often enough) and the rest of the house is pretty open. I've heard that birds will find their favorite perches and you can just put a paper towel or somehting under them while they're there. Ours haven't done that yet and its inevitable that as they're flying, they poop, and in turn, we step in it. *L* Maybe as out of the cage time gets to be more familiar for Cupid adn Psyche, they'll build habits that will enable us to control the poop better. How do you deal with your bird poop?

Thanks for the link lovey! Baby hasn't done any regurgitating, but its another good thing to look for.

Too funny!! My guys like their veggies in big chunks so we haven't seen funny food faces yet.

Yeah, I was wondering if there was a way I could feel if it was in her crop or if it would just be more risky. I'm kind of more tempted to just let things be and wait and see, but if anyone knows if this is okay or something, I'm all ears!

I tried to take note of how many droppings were in her cage when i went to bed last night and I think it looks like there's plenty more. They all seem to be the same size and color and stuff as usual, so hopefully nothing is awry. She's been her usual friendly little self so far today, eating well and everything. But unless I'm mistaken, problems could show up at any time, like if it suddenly gets lodged somewhere weeks down the road or something. Its so cool to hear that Baby has her own little fan club here! Thank you everyone!

It was a little crystally sort of stone, not quite an eighth of an inch in diameter. I'm really just hoping that it will pass without perforating anything or else just sit and hang out. I did a little reading on the digestive system of birds and foreign bodies could cause problems in any number of areas, so I'm gonna have to be extra watchful of her poops to be sure she doesn't become impacted or have any of the normal movements stop. She seems to be still eating fine and is as happy as usual. Unfortunately, birds are the type of animal to hide that they're not feeling good, so it won't be easy. However, yes, like you said, birds eat bad things all the time. Lets keep our fingers crossed that she'll be okay!

How adorable!! I can almost hear her groaning with pleasure.

I have had incredibly poor luck with pets of mine eating things they shouldn't. My cat died while being put under for surgery to remove a swallowed sewing needle (this kitty was also known to chew through Tupperware to get at food *L*). My dog OD'd on his pain meds, ate 6 bean burritos at one time and a tube of hairball remedy, all on separate occasions. I really hope I don't have to add Baby to this list! She was sitting on my shoulder nibbling at my earrings. She was having particular fun with one of them and it almost seemed like she was eating something. There was a little stone in the dangly part of it and I reached up to feel the earring and it (the stone) was gone! There was also some gunk built up on the earring and she had a beakful of it. I'm really hoping there isn't any harmful substances in it. I'm also hoping that was all she was 'eating'. I wasn't able to find the stone where i was sitting though. It could have fallen out long ago though. So I'm hoping that a little stone won't harm her crop if she did in fact swallow it. Birds eat gravel and grit.... I have no idea if there was a sharp edge on it unfortunately. If there wasn't, i wouldn't worry as much. I'm not terribly familiar with the digestive system of birds, so I don't know how much danger she's in. I'll have to see if I can find anything out in any of my textbooks (vet tech in training here). I know enough to watch for signs of blood in her droppings (either fresh or from higher up in the gi tract), make sure she's still pooping and eating. Other than that, I'm not sure what else to do. I don't even know if there is equipment small enough to reach down her throat to retrieve it. It would be simple enough to xray her to see if its in there, but she'd probably need chemical restraint to do so and she's too old for that (the vet already nixed that idea when we had her there a few weeks back). I'm gonna keep a close eye on her tonight and possibly call the vet in the morning to see if its something she should be brought in for. I'm hoping that if she did swallow it, it can just hang out in her crop like stuff does when cows swallow things.

Thanks for the good info Rainbow. They really do act like little kids, don't they? Jared tried to get the two to want to take a bath, but i think they were too intimidated by the container, and Baby wasn't having as much fun as she usually does too. *L* And I'm glad that at least someone enjoys my descriptions - sometimes I worry about being too wordy. *L* What's really interesting is watching the 3 of them interact. Baby has spent all of her 15 years with the exception of when she was with her nestlings and since the end of October without any other budgies around. So she doesn't really know how to interact with budgies, just with people. Cupid and Psyche look all around while they're eating, very alert to their surroundings, where Baby is completely ingrossed in her food. Cupid will peck at her or bump her head and she'll just look dazed, like she has no idea what he's trying to do. *L* Its cute to see the differences in their behavior and watch them learn from each other.

As things have been progressing, it doesn't seem like the birds are doing anything more than the little pecking and stuff that you see the birds doing at the pet store. In fact, it almost seems as if Baby is the one doing most of the pecking. Like her and Cupid wanted the same little bit of food and she was the one who told him to go away. There was a really cute sweet moment with Baby on top of their cage. I have one of their toys set up so that it makes a sort of swing. Baby was near that toy and Psyche came over, climbed up into it and looked at Baby all sweetly and just sat there by her. I think it looks like they're all going to be good friends.

He's such a cute little guy! And his eyes are so expressive!

For another session today, I put a scoop of seed on a paper plate as a more structured way to introduce them to being out of the cage. At first they were afraid of the plate, big scary white thing it is, so I brought Baby over and as soon as she went to town on the seeds, Cupid came over and joined her without hesitation. Within a minute or two Psyche came over and joined in the feast too! There were a couple of times when Baby flew and she startled them - boy is it crazy to have 3 birds flying around your head! *L* But they were really good and stayed right by their cage, the other bird and the food. They both even went down on the floor a little bit. After Cupid made his way back in the cage, Psyche kind of seemed a little scared and started flying with Baby, farther and farther away from the cage. It was cool to hear Cupid calling her and her trying to call back and come back. We ended up having to follow her down the hall and Jared was able to catch her without much chasing at all. While she was chewing on his hands, she wasn't freaking out terribly and she didn't freak when he let her hop into the cage again. http://static.flickr.com/138/327888598_3655c6bb8a.jpg What's going on out there? http://static.flickr.com/143/327888630_96ebb189fd.jpg?v=0 MMmmmm!! http://static.flickr.com/139/327888667_4148cd9f6b.jpg?v=0 *gasp!* what's that? http://static.flickr.com/141/327888780_c5a0396898.jpg?v=0 Come on Psyche, the weather's fine out here! http://static.flickr.com/142/327888859_e5a94a4736_m.jpg http://static.flickr.com/136/327888908_d0f5d9c7cb.jpg?v=0 Cupid, I'm worried.. Aww, its okay. There's nothing to be afraid of! http://static.flickr.com/138/327889016_970dfc083d.jpg?v=0 Here I come to save the day!! http://static.flickr.com/144/327889190_054153fe58_m.jpg What are you doing up there? http://static.flickr.com/135/327889094_d9291445c8.jpg?v=0 Wow... being out is kinda fun, but scary! Moderator’s Message to user Images changed to links due to size. Board limit is 450x450 pixels.

And confidence grow, it did! I got a plate of seeds for them and after they saw Baby eating on it, they had to join her. It was great fun! I'm putting pictures of it over in the picture section. Everyone did great, even Psyche! I'm sure tomorrow will be even better.

In the last day or two, Baby and Cupid and Psyche have finally noticed each other. Their cages are on opposite sides of the living room. Since Baby has finished her medicine and has started eating the pellets I've been giving her, she's turned into a young thing again. Her flying has gotten a lot stronger and she spends much more time with us. As a result, Cupid and Psyche have been seeing her more and I brought her over to visit them. After the little visit, she flies over to their cage now too. When she's on the couch with us, Cupid and Psyche are in the close corner of their cage, looking like they want to join us. We've been watching them closely when Baby goes visiting. Jared said that Psyche was posturing and lunged at her feet once. Cupid has been very friendly and investigative and nibbled on her toes once as well (it was more like a curious taste than a hack). Sometimes Psyche will ignore Baby and other times she'll go over to where she is and then leave her again. What sort of behavior should we be watching for that would indicate they're not going to get along? I also wonder if Baby going over to them is intimidating to them in some sort of way, like she's invading their territory. When is it safe to let them out together? How do you break up a bird fight? What other things should we be aware of while integrating the flock? No, we're not planning on housing them together at all, just getting them to all be friends. I think that Baby's new found energy and strength is a great opportunity for bringing Cupid and Psyche out of their shells. I just want to be sure that we do it right, know what pitfalls to look out for and know how to deal with them as well.

yeah, she's a wonderbird. *L* This was just her second bath in her lifetime, too. She doesn't care to play in her water unless we're holding it. And then she just goes to town!

With a little help from some millet, Cupid came out of his cage today for the first time! I've been working on moving my hand while he's sitting on my finger, trying to get him farther away from perches and closer to the door of the cage. I lured him onto my finger and eventually he was sitting there gobbling away and he let me pull my hand out of the cage. Psyche came over to get some too, but she wasn't bold enough to come on my hand too. I went back and forth moving him in the cage and out, munching the whole time. He was awesome! Then somethign startled him while he was out of the cage and he took off. I hadn't really prepared for him to be out and flying so I was rather nervous. And silly me held my hand out to him to land on cuz Baby always lands in our hands. I then had to make myself stop following him and just see where he was gonna go, scanning all over looking for hazards. He landed in the kitchen on one of the canisters, so I slowly approached him, and he readily got up on my finger. I moved ever so slowly, talking to him quietly, all the way across the kitchen and living room to his cage. He seemed a little frightened, but calm. It almost seemed like he was reassured by my voice. He made it back without mishap and went back to the millet almost right away. I'm not sure who was more nervous, him or me! *L* He's no worse for wear and even hopped onto my husband's finger right afterwards too. I'm still trying to settle down. *L* I'll have to plan better the next time I work with him, perhaps creating a playground for him and making sure the place is safe for him to fly in. Or maybe I'll take the whole cage into the bathroom so he can learn how to control his flying and I can develop confidence in his abilities and willingness to let him handle him with less hazards (towel over the mirror and toilet seat closed). I am bummed that Jared didn't have his camera close at hand though. I wanted him safe in his cage as soon as I could get him there. Luckily, everything went extremely well!!

Baby has turned out to be quite the little camera hog! It seems that she poses and eats up the attention. My husband's new camera and his love of taking pictures only makes this stronger. These are just some of the pics taken during this little session. Here's the link to the entire series if you want more! They're in full size too - I didn't think that 500x330 pixels would make people very happy and I didn't want to mess around with resizing all of them too. http://www.flickr.com/photos/armchairdeity...57594427692800/

THey're so adorable!!

How cute!!!