Oh that is so sad AV I hope you van get in top of it all and don't loose any more .....Hugs

((hugs)) again....I hope today is a better day.

today was going well untill one of the guys on the agressive treatment started to get red/black poo now I am worried again she really does not look that good, figure I am going to have to find something open tomorrow and start crop feeding her to get some weight back on her. Harley looks well.

 

Oh and GB Cotton Candy is looking good, still a little under the weather, vet says that she would keep him on treatment with my other guys for 3 months and give him another month before sending him your way and then for you to quarantine. I will get him vet checked.

I'm sorry to hear about all of this AV.

 

Megbacteria, canker (trichomoniasis) and coccidioses; none of these are a virus. Annoyingly you have a fungal infection and 2 protozoal infections respectively. Fungal is easier to treat, but protozoal is much more difficult, because of their structure (they have very similar cells to us) they are difficult to kill.

The bloody faeces tells you that the coccidia are reproducing in the intestinal wall still. Oocysts (eggs) are passed in the faeces and you must take the utmost care to ensure that no faeces from infected birds come into contact with other birds and even the same bird again as they can reinfect themselves if they ingest any faeces. So at the moment cleanliness is very important. Ideally each bird should be separate from the others as they are able to reinfect each other, but I know this is not practical.

Feed them lots of high energy food as their intestines are ravaged at the moment and they won't beable to absorb very much. Also make sure they are getting lots of fluid, because they will be losing it if they have diarrhoea. It might pay to crop tube them a little water as well.

Keep an eye on their weight.

Good luck

Thanks SW. It was strange she did not have the funny colour poo at lunch time yesterday but last night it appeared and then we cleaned her up and was not present today.

 

I would split her off but she is in with Blue and he is feeding her a little so I want to leave her there as I don't think she is eating by herself. Will get getting a crop tube/needle later today and will start feeding her handrising mix so she gets both food and water with that.

 

I have a wire grill on the bottom of the cage and that gets cleaned out twice a day Her cage is on Bactrim to the mouth twice a day for 7 days, the other guys are on Baycox once a day to the mouth 3 days on 5 days off, 2 days on, 5 days off, 2 days on, then once a month for 2 days untill I have used all the meds. I also have some Doxy. I am thinking I might give her some Doxy or some of the Baycox as well as the Bactrim but i need to get ahold of the vet and so far today all I get is answering machines!

Thanks SW. It was strange she did not have the funny colour poo at lunch time yesterday but last night it appeared and then we cleaned her up and was not present today.

 

I would split her off but she is in with Blue and he is feeding her a little so I want to leave her there as I don't think she is eating by herself. Will get getting a crop tube/needle later today and will start feeding her handrising mix so she gets both food and water with that.

 

I have a wire grill on the bottom of the cage and that gets cleaned out twice a day Her cage is on Bactrim to the mouth twice a day for 7 days, the other guys are on Baycox once a day to the mouth 3 days on 5 days off, 2 days on, 5 days off, 2 days on, then once a month for 2 days untill I have used all the meds. I also have some Doxy. I am thinking I might give her some Doxy or some of the Baycox as well as the Bactrim but i need to get ahold of the vet and so far today all I get is answering machines!

 

Doxy is a treatment for bacterial diseases - and you don't have that. Don't do doxy now.

renee not going to add anything to her cocktail untill i have spoken to the vet, any vet, bloody recorded messages

Tetracyclines are used for some (only some and not all) protozoal infections (and I'm not even sure Doxy kills protozoa), however, you do not want to be mixing drugs without supervision from your vet at this time, as some antibiotics can actually counteract each other and cause both of them to not work at all.

Also, the less drugs they are on the better for their system in the long run. You don't want to overload their systems. Especially when the doxy is unnecessary at this time and will only work to make them feel ill. What you have them on now is good, both are anticoccidials.

You guys have got to remember that Doxy is not a wonder drug, what the birds are on now is much better for them as it is way more specific.

 

Your description of her poo fits in with what she has. Coccidia breed in the cells of the intestinal lining, where they replicate and burst out of the cells causing bleeding. They then enter more cells and replicate again. The number of times this happens depends on the species of coccidia. The last time they burst out the males fertilise the females and oocysts(eggs) grow in the intestinal cells. These then burst out and are passed out into the faeces. This would explain why you have normal poo then bloody poo then normal poo again.

 

I still have no idea how you guys are getting hold of doxycycline. Ideally you should only have it from prescription and there should be none left over afterwards.

Edited April 11, 200916 yr by Sailorwolf

I still have no idea how you guys are getting hold of doxycycline. Ideally you should only have it from prescription and there should be none left over afterwards.

 

 

Like many drugs, it should be sourced through a vet as SW suggests.

AV are your birds on Coccivet ?

Kaz some are on Baycox an some are one Bactrim.

 

The ones on Bactrim are one .2 twice a day for 7 days and then two days on the Baycox once a day.

 

Those on Baycox are on .2 once a day for 3 days then 5 days off then 2 days on then 5 days off and then monthly for 2 days untill all the meds are gone.

Cocci treatment and fast if they are not already on it!

 

Canker & Cocci can cause losses quickly and in numbers, mega much more slowly and usually one or two at a time. The bloody poo is an absolutely sure sign of an aggressive cocci infection as SW says. However, the more susecptable birds are those that have had little contact with the protozoa, and therefore have not (edit - missed a critical bit there) built up a natural immunity to the disease and those that hold up better have had exposure in the past and the chance to build up a sort of immunity to the organism. Although even birds that have an immunity can be overwhelmed by large numbers of oocycts (cocci eggs) in the environment.

 

There are 2 different strains of cocci in budgies in Aus, one causes damage higher up in the gut and fewer bird losses. A more recently identified strain causes serious gut damage lower in the gut, with severe bleeding causing blood loss and death that way. This ones shows up with bloody poo or sometimes dark brown coloured poo (old blood in poo). WA had a run of it a few years ago.

 

You will beat this okay! Others have gone through this too and have come out the other side okay. Big fingers crossed that your bird losses stop!

 

Pointless culling your flock and starting again as cocci is very hardy and remains in the environment for a long time. Work in poutlry houses (chooks also get horror cocci problems when young) showed that even total removal of bedding and steam or flame treatment of broiler sheds would not remove all cocci oocycts. Also some level of oocycts was also preferable to allow a flock to build it's immunity as opposed to a clean flock as these would inevitably crash with cocci at around the 3 week of age mark when the numbers of oocycts built up enough from the small number left. Cocci reproduction works exponentially so the oocyct numbers can build spectacularly in a short period of time.

Edited April 12, 200916 yr by nubbly5

I went away to the last budgerigar nationals with cocci affecting my flock. Water had got into the soil floor aviary and I saw birds dropping like flies.....lots and lots of them. They were all on the ground. Once I worked out it was cocci and put them all in cages with warm lamps and coccivet, they started to rally around. I left for the nationals with at least 30 birds in the care of my husband. I had lost 38 birds over two days already. Once the coccivet kicked in and the warmth of the lamps helped I came back 5 days later to no more losses. I know what you are going through. Its devastating. But it will stop.

Edited April 12, 200916 yr by KAZ

AV - how are your birds going now?

We lost a few more, Cotton Candy was one of them (So sorry GB) but I am really hoping that is it. I am worried about Flame as there is nothing to her but then again she is a tiny bird anyway. Really thinking that I am going to have to crop feed her but I am not 100% about crop feeding, I know how to do it and I have done it but I avoid it if I can. I just wish she would put on some weight!

 

Sorry to hear that AV.

 

Gotta say that for all the pleasures of breeding budgies there certainly are some heartaches involved too. Keep hanging in there.

Well flame just keeps losing weight there is nothing to her, I have seen her look like she is eating but I am not sure that is is in fact eating so I am decided to crop feed her. went to get my crop need and the frelling thing will not stay on the end of anything that I have! So I have been calling places all day today trying to find a crop needle but unless I want to drive to whoop whoop or wait 3 - 10 days for postage no luck, then I stumbled across a bird boarding place that has some in stock so going to go there in about 40 mins and get a 14 gauge one and try and get some handraising mix down her tonight. Poor girl is just skin and bones and I am worried sick about her.

Well flame just keeps losing weight there is nothing to her, I have seen her look like she is eating but I am not sure that is is in fact eating so I am decided to crop feed her. went to get my crop need and the frelling thing will not stay on the end of anything that I have! So I have been calling places all day today trying to find a crop needle but unless I want to drive to whoop whoop or wait 3 - 10 days for postage no luck, then I stumbled across a bird boarding place that has some in stock so going to go there in about 40 mins and get a 14 gauge one and try and get some handraising mix down her tonight. Poor girl is just skin and bones and I am worried sick about her.

Put some protein into the hand feeding mix....pure whole egg powder if you have any or any protein powder and add a few drops of calcivet.

Just hold the needle on to the syringe and use a less viscous fluid/food in the syringe.

 

This is what I had to do.

Edited April 14, 200916 yr by Sailorwolf

Well I tracked one down crop feed her last night and then spent the night freaking out that I had put air in her crop! I am 99% sure that i did not but it's always my fear that I would have and I hate crop feeding but will do it again tonight

Well I tracked one down crop feed her last night and then spent the night freaking out that I had put air in her crop! I am 99% sure that i did not but it's always my fear that I would have and I hate crop feeding but will do it again tonight

Air in the crop feed they get from parents anyway so no big deal...at least you got it into her crop and not a lung.....you are doing fine. I understand the pressure and stress you are under....it has to turn around soon :hi:

Oh AV, i really hope things look up for you soon. You are being very brave :hi:

The thing to remember when crop feeding is not to panic and to take it slow... It does take time to get used to it. But it does come naturally after time.

well one of the bubs got rejected from his mum and has splayed legs so i had to get over my crop feeding phobia and deal with him as well. thanks to Kaz's thread on splayed leggs he now has a sponge split!

AV I have just read this thread and I really feel for you darls. Hang in, there will be a light at the end of the tunnel.

 

Have you had some recent wet weather? If so this will most likely be the cause of the Cocci out-break. Oocyst stay in the ground for a long time and need moisture to continue the life cycle.