My suspended aviaries are lined with cement sheeting to reduce the heat effect and I've had no problem with it. Having said that, and as Kaz said, it's on the ceiling so the edges are pretty much out of reach for chewing anyway.

Did any of the affected batches make it to Australian shelves? Also wondering if anyone on the forum uses this, or any other handrearing formula for their budgies, either as supplementary feeding or to handraise their budgies.

Yeah, I checked with council, no issues with keeping birds... On the other side of that fence is a big grassland reserve. Not sure if snakes are a problem (it's home to the leg less lizard apparently) but I'm guessing they eat birds too... I've spoken to our neighbors on the other side and they're fine with it, so let's hope they don't change their mind. I contacted the council a while ago and there was no problem but it won't hurt to call them again.

 

 

How close to the fence it is will be an issue council will have rules on.

 

 

Agreed. My council states the aviary has to be a minimum of 1 metre from the fence. However the distance from the front road is to be a minimum of 5 metres and the distance from your own or neighbouring house is up to 25 metres dependant upon the number of birds you keep. Definitely worth tracking down your council website (or visit if the info is not available) to determine if your chosen placement recieves the council tick of approval.

 

 

You tell'em Daz,I know in the Fancy Pigeons, there are breeders that only feed

Pallets & have done so for Years.

 

 

I know this is only a typos or spelling gaff, but ya gotta laugh when trying to picture budgies or birds eating palletts..wooden they get splinters LMAO :D

That's what happens, when your spell check,dosn't tell you have put the wrong

word. :rolleyes:

 

 

Pallets: A designer food for wood ducks!

 

 

D: I feed pellets as an ADDITION to my birds balanced diet which also consists of seeds (dry and sprouted), vegetables, and assorted mineral additives.

BJ: Most show bird breeder are more concerned with progeny production than the long term liver & kidney damage, due to vitamin & mineral overdose.

D: That's a pretty broad and sweeping statement and an insult to the people who frequent this forum. It's also contradictory as long term liver and kidney damage is going to prevent progeny production. I am aware of the effects of feeding particular pellets as a sole source of nutrition but that's not what I'm advocating. A quick browse through the posts in this forum will show you that breeders here ARE very concerned with the well being of their birds, some paying more attention to their birds' diet than their own!

D: The pellets are offered in a separate bowl on a daily basis. Most of my birds eat the pellets, a few do not so obviously they mustn't taste too bad.

BJ: Too bad doesn't mean good.

D: So if you went to a smorgasboard buffet and most of the diners ate, say, the roast, your conclusion would be that you still can't tell whether the majority think it tastes good? If a fish slapped you in the head would you know it was a fish? Geez!!!

 

 

D: I'm not sure why people insist on coming on here and starting threads about how pellets are the work of the devil and nobody should feed them as a single source of nutrition to their budgies.

BJ: I'm sure I never said that!

D: Your topic heading says "B.J's Pellets or Natural Diet, NO CONTEST". That sounds to me like you're post is discussing a pellet only diet vs a natural diet. You also wrote "why would you force your birds to eat anything they don't like?"

 

D: I note you're in Manchester and I'm not sure how things operate over in the UK, but you're on an Australian forum and for what it's worth i know of NO budgie breeders who feed their birds a diet consisting solely of pellets.

BJ: Come on, Australia a big place. There could be some you don't know about.

D: Nope, I know them all. ;-) Okay, say I knew about 100 and none of them fed a diet consisting solely of pellets. Do you really think the feeding of pellets as a sole dietary source is that big of a problem in budgie breeders? Personally I only know of 1 guy that replaced seed with pellets as a trial and that was 14 years ago. I don't know if he persisted with that. I tried it myself a few years ago on a small sample of birds for a few weeks and concluded that the birds did better on a diet with pellets plus all the usual stuff (although I sort of suspected that might be the outcome). Typically budgie breeders in Aus (as far as I know) haven't taken on the idea of pellets but parrot breeders here have embraced it in a big way.

 

D:The few of us who use them feed in addition to a balanced diet.

BJ: In a balanced diet. Why would you need them?

D: You're right, they probably don't need them, but given they've been developed by an avian nutritionist and my birds like to eat them in addition to their non-pellet diet I feel that they may benefit from their inclusion.

 

D:Also, making absurd statements about protein coming from the slaughter house is just downright misleading as your post implies

BJ:Your right, I can only speak for pellets manufactured in GB. I worked for 2years in a slaughter house. No doubt Australian pellets are made from prime steak.

D: The ingredients list might be a giveaway, especially the little bit of writing on some where it says "contains no animal products". Perhaps some do contain meat products but none of the mainstream ones that I've looked at here contain any meat products. None!

 

D: ALL pellets are the same! That's like saying all cars are **** because you bought a piece of junk from "Dodgy Dan the Car Sales Man".

BJ: Funny you should mention cars. The one I have is great but there are at least four identical models that I have spotted with a different manufacturers badge on.

D: I think you missed my point. See next para for explanation.

 

D: As with any product it's up to the consumer to determine which product is suitable because unlike the implication in your post, pellets are not all the same.

BJ: Well I can't prove they are & you can't prove they ain't.

D: No YOU can't, but have you tried using Google? There's a lot of pellets types/brands on the market but I'm not going to fill this post further with countless lists of ingredients. I'm sure some are much better than others too but again that's for the buyer to research and decide.

 

 

D: One final thing: most pellets contain a mycotoxin deactivator. Do breeders know where their seed comes from and if it's been treated for mycotoxins or even what the dangers of them are? Given our (Aust east coast) wetter climate of the last 12 months mycotoxins are sure to be more prevalent in grains now than in our past drier years. I attended a chook forum last year and questioned the expert pitching his mycotoxin deactivator to the audience about how our budgie seed could be treated. In short, he didn't know. Seeing as you've spent the "latter part of your working life" in "seeds, grain and animal feedstuff" perhpas you would be able to shed some light on how we can decrease the risk of mycotoxin in seed.

BJ: Sorry I'm not a scientist. I retired in 1985, but if you know, why don't you tell us? Pellets are like sausages. it's best not to know wots in em!

D: If I knew I wouldn't be asking you, lol! That is why I was asking as you've included in your introduction how you've worked in the seed and grain business. I have no experience in this field but found it interesting that when I questioned the "expert" he agreed it could be a problem but wasn't sure what to do about it. Ironically his only suggestion was to feed a foodstuff which contained a mycotoxin deactivator which, lo and behold, are in the pellets I feed! I don't know how effective this approach would be especially since a few of my birds (I'll estimate it'd be about 10-20%) consume little or no pellets.

 

 

BJ: That was hard work. my typing finger will need a long rest now. Yours No insult intended. B.J.

D: I guess in summary you're saying that pellets shouldn't be used as a sole dietary source and on that we both agree. However I feel they have a place offered as a part of my birds diet given the research done by the manufacturer to make it as a "complete diet". I just choose to make my birds' diet a little more complete by also feeding all the traditional stuff.

Anyway, I gotta go as I'm going to be late for work if I don't get outside and feed the other animals including the old horse who gets 2 scoops of pellets morning and night. Uh oh, better not start again!!! Have a good day BJ. Cheers.

B. J's PELLETS V FRESH FOOD

I have often been accused of banging on about Pet Bird Pellets.

So I've decided to write this explanation for my views against

them.

I've spent some of the latter part of my working life in the Grain,

Seed & Animal Feed stuff business. So here I'm going to let you

into a few secrets. What they don't print on the pkt. If your a bit

squeamish, don't read on......

The so called, high quallity Protein, Calcium & some odd trace

elements come from the Slaughter house. Offal inc Skin, Fur,

Sinew's & other bits not considered suitable for human consumption

contribute the Protein. The Bones are ground into a powder for the

Calcium. The Vitamins, Carbohydrates, come from the wastage from

the vegetable packers, inc, Stalks, Roots, Pods & Leaves. Plus

anything that gets shelled or damaged in the transportation &

sorting process.

For instance, Maize, Peanuts, Sunflower hearts, Nuts, Peas, Beans

etc. etc.These are dried & crushed. This saves quite lot of money

from the disposal costs to landfill sites & makes a nice profit with a

little publicity from Birdkeepers believing the blurb on the bags &

wanting to give the best they can to their Birds.

So I offer this challenge. To all bird keepers who think that Pellets

are the best food for birds..

Take every meal you consume in just on day, from breakfast to

midnight snack. Cooked in the normal way. Put the whole lot into

a mixer..... Now you know it's nutritious, fresh & just think of all the

time you could save. All you have to do now is to pour

yourself a portion out for your breakfast. Having enjoyed it so

much no doubt you can hardly wait for your next meal.....

Pellets are ideal for poultry, for which they were designed.

They swallow without tasting. I've know chickens eat a dozen steel

ball bearings without batting an eyelid. Some birds like humans taste

& enjoy the taste & texture of fresh food that's also fit for human

consumption. Like us they have their own personal likes & dislikes

where food is concerned, once they have tasted Pellets, they know

they taste like *****. Even when you mix it with things they do like,

which rather defeats the object of feeding pellets in the first place.

Of course starving birds has been known to make birds eat Pellets,

but its cruel & not to be recommended.

Why would you force your birds to eat anything they don't like.

For the record, I would not deprive any bird who enjoyed eating

Pellets. Provided the owner understands the dangers in supplying

certain extra Vitamins, Minerals etc. As this can cause long term

damage to internal organs. Leading to sudden unexplained death

after a year or two. The symptoms are almost identical as a Vitamin

& Mineral deficient diet.okay....Yours B.J.

 

 

*sigh* here we go again........

 

I feed pellets as an ADDITION to my birds balanced diet which also consists of seeds (dry and sprouted), vegetables, and assorted mineral additives. The pellets are offered in a separate bowl on a daily basis. Most of my birds eat the pellets, a few do not so obviously they mustn't taste too bad. I'm not sure why people insist on coming on here and starting threads about how pellets are the work of the devil and nobody should feed them as a single source of nutrition to their budgies. I note you're in Manchester and I'm not sure how things operate over in the UK, but you're on an Australian forum and for what it's worth i know of NO budgie breeders who feed their birds a diet consisting solely of pellets. The few of us who use them feed in addition to a balanced diet. Also, making absurd statements about protein coming from the slaughter house is just downright misleading as your post implies ALL pellets are the same! That's like saying all cars are **** because you bought a piece of junk from "Dodgy Dan the Car Sales Man". As with any product it's up to the consumer to determine which product is suitable because unlike the implication in your post, pellets are not all the same.

 

One final thing: most pellets contain a mycotoxin deactivator. Do breeders know where their seed comes from and if it's been treated for mycotoxins or even what the dangers of them are? Given our (Aust east coast) wetter climate of the last 12 months mycotoxins are sure to be more prevalent in grains now than in our past drier years. I attended a chook forum last year and questioned the expert pitching his mycotoxin deactivator to the audience about how our budgie seed could be treated. In short, he didn't know. Seeing as you've spent the "latter part of your working life" in "seeds, grain and animal feedstuff" perhpas you would be able to shed some light on how we can decrease the risk of mycotoxin in seed.

 

 

For those of us that don't have the genetic knowledge that RIP does here's what we can use...

 

 

http://www.gencalc.c...nc.php?sp=0Budg

 

 

 

Now I just need to figure out how it works.

ask RIP......she both uses this and sells it.

 

That's the Ken Yorke product she sells Yorke

The link given above by Jimmy is a free one and quite comprehensive but takes a while to grasp.

Thanks Vicki for posting, I hadn't heard this news which is very sad. A lovely person and a huge loss to the budgie breeding world.

You can get a good look at BIRDREC from the screenshots at the following link at Ken Yorke's site:

 

http://users.tpg.com.au/users/kyorke/p20.htm

 

 

 

 

 

Don't let this non-ring event happen to you. Remember the chorus of the following for advice next time:

 

An awesome result Splat, congratulations. For those that don't know, this is one of the biggest things you can win on the Victorian Show Calendar in the year!

Not be a pain or anything but the squares are actually called Punnett Squares which were designed by Reginald C Punnett.

 

Definitely a pain RIP. YUP!

 

I'm ALWAYS going to honour my high school science teacher and his calling them Mendel Squares so no matter HOW many times you make this point it won't make an inch of difference okay! Well sorry, but ya teacher got this one wrong.

 

Just like trying to explain to some notable budgie breeders that YF is recessive to green and not masked by it, right

Good luck. Some people just can't assimilate and prefer to listen to the usual run of the mill BS!

 

 

When faced with this argument I just ask them to explain to me how YF is masked in both SF and DF and how you breed such birds. That usually stumps them.

I Question the use of the word split for a dominant Variety.

 

The YF is only dominant in the Blue series but recessive in the Green series. Perhaps the question should be as to whether the YF should even be termed a Dominant variety!

Whilst on the topic of "The 50% Rule", I would like to discuss the following:

 

There is no such thing as "my bird is 50% breeder A and 50% breeder B" (or ANY percentage less than 100%),

just because you crossed 2 birds, one sourced from breeder A and one from breeder B. I believe this is a constant error perpetuated in auction catalogs and in general conversation.

 

Let me explain my thinking using simple colour genetics with which we are familiar with and in each case I'll relate these back to the statement above. I'll also refrain from using actual breeder names and simply use the terminology Breeder A, Breeder B etc.

 

Case 1:

 

If you breed together 2 pure Light Greens (from breeder A), the offspring will be 100% pure Light Green (ie Breeder A to Breeder A gives 100% Breeder A).

 

Breeding a pure light Green (Breeder A) with a pure Sky Blue (Breeder would, in the generally accepted terminology, give birds which were 50% Breeder A and 50% Breeder B. Given that these offspring (all Light Green/Blue) carry a Green gene and a Blue gene then this appears to be correct.

 

However, what happens when you breed your 50/50 bird to Breeder B (ie a LIght Green/Blue to a Sky Blue)?

The resultant offspring would be half Light Green/Blue (ie comprising 50% Breeder A and 50% Breeder and half Sky Blue (100% Breeder .

 

However, using the thinking often used in percentage calculations in auction catalogs and general conversation we would expect this:

A "50% Breeder A/50% Breeder B" (Light Green/Blue) bird crossed with "100% Breeder B" (Sky Blue) bird gives offspring which would be termed 25% Breeder A and 75% Breeder B. As you can see this type of calculation is a load of the proverbial you-know-what as, to use the example above, would infer we have a bird which is 75% Breeder B. This is impossible as you can't have a bird which is 25% Light Green and 75% Sky Blue.

 

Case 2:

 

You mate your Breeder A (your Light Green cock) with a Breeder C (which happens to be a Single Factor Dominant Pied Light Green hen)

We know that the theoretical progeny of this pairing will be 50% Light Green and 50% SF Dominant Pied Light Green.

 

Again, using the old "averaging of breeders percentages" rule above, you would expect an outcome where ALL of the chick contained 50% Breeder A (ie 50% Light Green) and 50% Breeder C (ie 50% SF DP Light Green). This is obviously a nonsense as it such birds (ie a half of a SF pied) don't exist and the outcome doesn't correlate with the theoretical colour outcome above which shows that half of the chicks are 100% Breeder A and half of the chicks are 100% Breeder C, not a mix of such.

 

Case 3:

 

If you've followed my ramblings so far, well done! Now for a final example:

 

A bird from Breeder B (therefore 100% Breeder , a Sky Blue cock is mated to a bird from Breeder C (our SF Dominant Pied Light Green hen) As most auction catalogs would have you believe, all offspring from this pair would contain genes which were 50% Breeder B and 50% Breeder C.

 

However, the colour outcome would be:

half chicks - SF DP Light Green/Blue (ie this seems to be 50% Breeder B and 50% Breeder C, so far so good)

half chicks - Light Green/Blue (ie 50% Breeder B, but only half of the Breeder C (the Light Green part) was passed on. How do you define this as a percentage? Half of the Breeder C portion (the pied) is missing!!)

 

Conclusion:

 

The examples given above are relatively simple. Of course from this we could introduce a mix of colours and varieties whose inheritance is recessive, sex-linked or dominant etc in nature and this exercise would become a nightmare. But this is the situation we face when combining the thousands of gene combinations which make up and control the inheritance of the exhibition features we strive to perfect. The percentages are nonsensical as they can't truly be tracked unless we know the inheritance of each specific feature we are trying to control and the makeup of each bird from Breeder X. Which of course we can't.

 

When someone states they have a bird which is 100% Breeder X, what exactly does that mean? What is the definition of a 100% Breeder X bird other than to indicate it was bred by Breeder X? However, did Breeder X breed it from their long line of champion Normals, their developing Pieds, or a pair of outcrosses they themselves purchased?

 

In short, I believe it is pointless stating a bird contains percentages of certain breeders as there is no way this can be proven nor does it actually mean a lot. If it is desired to "name drop" how your stock has been developed then perhaps the more correct way is to simply state only the breeder's name(s) used to create the bird. The real percentages are anyone's guess

I think FordMob has hit on something here. We bleat about loss of numbers in "the fancy" but maybe it's just an image problem. Maybe to get more blokes involved we need a bit of a danger element thrown in, a Fear Factor if you like. You can't sit at the local with a few mates and tell them how you've been pulling spots and trimming vents all day. You'd be laughed out of the Ladies Lounge. That stuff just doesn't do your manliness levels any credibility. Forget about terminology, what we need is meaner birds, dangerous little b@ggers that strike fear in the hearts of even the blokiest blokes as they enter your aviary and see a feathered missile launching itself straight at your nether region. "Crikey, what do you call these things?" "Killer budgies", you proudly reply. Breeding them up to this level shouldn't be too difficult, we've all had the hen that's ripped our hand to to a bl00dy mess as we've gently prised her from her chicks. The task of just feeding them would be a life and death adventure, but you'd just have to harden the @#$# up and face the music at feed time. Soon the demand for the fighting Chuck Norris of budgies would be insatiable. So blokes of Australia, now's the time to take our hobby from "fancy" to "blokey". Killer budgies, you know you want them.

Hi Julie,

 

A few questions:

 

1. It is soaked and not sprouted seed you're using?

2. How long do you soak the seed for?

3. Do you use any type of anti bacterial solution (eg. bleach, aviclens etc) during the soaking process.

I wonder where this came from? Will be a MASSIVE auction! Wonder if I can organise a trip to Sydney in Sept :-)

 

 

 

 

Just wondering what sort of prices the National Auction birds fetched? In particular the Chidel Grey Greens and the Kakoschke Pieds. Thanks.

 

 

Here you go Daryl.

Lot 1 > $2200

Lot 2 > $ 2800

Lot 3 > $ 1500

Lot 4 > $ 2750

Lot 5 > $2700

Lot 6 > cock was sub >$1000

Lot 7 > $1200

Lot 8 > $1700

Lot 9 > $2200

Lot 10 > cock was sub $ 3000

Lot 11 > 1800

Lot 12 > 1200

Lot 13 > 600

Lot 14 >1300

Lot 15 > 3000

Lot 16 > $1250

Lot 17 > $600

Lot 18 > $600

Lot 19 > $900

Lot 20 > $700

Lot 21 >$3400

Lot 22 > $900

Lot 23 >$400

Lot 24 > $2200

Lot 25 > $2800

Lot 26 > $600

Lot 27 >$1300

$44,600 Total

 

Fantastic, thanks PJI. It's good to put prices to the pics. Pretty hard to get a cheapie at the Nats but I reckon a few of those prices were fair for what they are.

Just wondering what sort of prices the National Auction birds fetched? In particular the Chidel Grey Greens and the Kakoschke Pieds. Thanks.

 

 

Thanks Jeff! The competition wasn't that tough this year though and the proof will be in the pudding at the Nats as it always is for little old WA! Sorry but not being in the IN crowd anymore and not having ANY results read out at the selections I'm not sure how many of yours are going..... Good luck with yours too.

 

I enjoyed the judging as well - definitely found myself on your side re: that nice danish pied grey - would have liked to have seen it on the bench just to SEE what the outcome would have been.

 

Kaz for me:

 

1 green

1 blue

1 grey

3 BES

3 lacewing

1 clearwing

1 hen

 

11 birds!!!! Wow, congratulations on that, what an effort. Also congrats to the other BBC members who had birds selected. I'll be keeping an eye on Luke's site (National feed) to see how the weekend unfolds, like many here I suspect that aren't going this year.

Finally, splat I'm concerned your post above may have been virus affected because it has a huge "Go Victoria" text at the end!!!!!!!

Good luck with your Lacewing Daryl

 

NO NO POX on your Lacewing Daryl!!!!! Just jokes! The very best of luck with it.

 

And that IS a nasty virus a few people have there...... yes it is.......

 

Not sure that I'm a fan of the bigger perches Kaz. Some noises through the ANBC that the decision was taken too quickly. Not sure about that as the decision had to be made either way but I guess the question is now (that everyone has spent $ adapting cages) if the perch size should be returned to the original size.

 

Thaks Julie and nubbly. As expected the Lacewing hen made the club team by default. I'm looking forward to showing her purple rung brother next year as he's not too bad but the hen is just a bird. I also got a Spangle in who is not too bad, and if he doesn't muck up too much he might finish in the top half of the class which I'd be rapt with.

 

WRT $ spent on the new perches I think even if it proves to be not such a good decision then the $ factor and the need to save face will keep the 16mm perches with us. I have no opinion on them yet as I still have the 12mm perches.

Thank you Jeff and Nubbly, they are good comments and information. All I have to do now is the hardest thing, breed birds that get picked for the Nationals, won't happen this year or next, I have no bird for the Shield this weekend, they are still moulting, pin feathers and blood on heads etc.

Good luck for all those that get their birds to the Nationals this year. BUT

 

Go Victoria

 

Although I understand where Kaz is coming from I think it comes down to risk versus effort and as nubbly has pointed out the current risk is generally considered too low to derive measured benefits from the implementation of a quarantine facility.

 

Splat, I have 3 birds going to our club pre-selection tonight. The SQ selection is on Sunday. Will possibly get a Lacewing in the club team by default but like you I won't have to worry about booking a birdie ticket to Canberra.

Finally, splat I'm concerned your post above may have been virus affected because it has a huge "Go Victoria" text at the end!!!!!!!

Did anyone manage to get along to this auction? Just wondering what the prices were like, especially the Lacewings.

My opinion:

 

Dark Factor: A separate class for Dark Factor Greens and Blues is WELL overdue. The Dark Factor was one of the earliest varieties recognised and yet no separate class exists for it. Exhibition progress of a variety is often directly linked to the offering of a National class and I think we really need the Dark factor classes for these beautiful birds.

 

Violet: One of the most striking of varieties, it also deserves it's own class. The main problem I forsee here is the debate on whether a bird is carrying the Violet factor or is simply a well marked Dark Factor. The introduction of this class is sure to create "debate" at State and national level.

 

Cinnamon Green and Blue classes: Along with the Opaline variety, the Cinnamon is one of the most popular. Given this, I'm not sure why if class separation is required that there is no separation of the Opaline class into Green and Blue.

 

Spangle normal and AOV: Being the next most common variety I can see why class separation is sought here. But could this be a reason to have a shift in markings emphasis between the 2 classes given the difficulty in breeding well marked Spangle Opalines/Cinnamons etc?

 

Suffused: Prefer to leave this one to RIP for comment ;-)

Its a DF dom pied and as such is likely its cere wont go blue if male at all. DF Dom males usually have a cere that is both pink and blue at the same time.

 

Definitely male and your answer is above.