Chrysocome

It's so cute, I actually went and bought a little skateboard for mine! LOL! I imagine it took quite a bit of training and reward to get them to stay on the boards. I'm hoping clicker training will convince Squee that it's fun

The long answer: -The bird has to be under general anaesthesia. This involves fasting the bird before surgery and sedation/pain relief if needed. It might need some blood tests to make sure its kidneys and liver are okay for metabolising the anaesthetic durgs, otherwise it can die under anaesthesia or shortly afterward. Then it has to be masked down to make it asleep, and a tube put down its little throat if necessary for it to breathe. Then the bird has to be watched constantly for the whole time to make sure it is not so light that it wakes up and not so deep that it stops breathing and dies. This involves watching the breathing, blinking, heart rate, reflexes and changing the gas flow as necessary. Every bird reacts to the gas differently. Sometimes you might need to breathe for it if it stops. -Give the bird some fluids - usually inject a bolus of hartmann's (electrolyte solution) under the skin, to make sure it is hydrated and make up for blood loss. Anaesthesia also turns off their heat regulating mechanisms so you have to make sure they don't get cold - use a heat mat, warm room, warm fluids if possible. -The area has to be prepared aseptically, which means several different chemicals are wiped across it to kill the surface bacteria. You don't want to amputate a leg only to have it infected again afterward. -Where to cut? You have to consider that the bird will have to use the stump to get around, so if you cut it too low it will end up damaging the stump, leaving it prone to more infection, but if you cut it too short it will not be able to use the stump. You don't want to cut muscle bellies if it's avoidable because it bleeds, hurts so needs more/longer pain relief, and takes longer to heal. Depending on how high up it is you have to think about what other nerves and blood vessels are around and where they go. Cut the wrong thing and other parts will die or be paralysed. -Cut the skin, tendons and muscles as you need to, deal with bleeders as you see them. Birds can only lose about 1% of their body weight - 0.3ml in most cases. They may choose to disarticulate the joint, depending on where the problem is. If they cut bone, how to do that without causing spiral or comminuted fractures? -Close up the skin, hopefully you've thought about cutting it in a way that leaves you some skin to work with. Make it look neat since that's what the owner will see, not your anatomical knowledge or surgical technique that will let the bird get around with minimal complications. -Give the bird antibiotics, pain relief and anti inflammatories. -Let it wake up, keep it on oxygen to make up for build up of carbon dioxide while it was under, make sure it is warm, can breathe for itself, watch if it vomits after anaesthesia, make sure it won't thrash around and hurt itself in the recovery period. Short answer: It isn't. Sorry for the essay, but I'm on a surgery/anaesthesia rotation and let me tell you it is not something to dismiss as simple and easily thrown away. Any anaesthesia alone, no matter how long, is plain nerve wracking because the moment you let your focus slip the patient can go into cardiac arrest and die. I haven't taken into account the cost of the drugs and gas. I won't try to put a price on the stress and knowledge required having a patient's life in your hands while you perform surgery and anaesthesia on it.

Most Australian natives are good. I've used Eucalyptus and bottle brushes with no ill effects. The best ones to use are those with flaky bark, my birds love shredding it. You can also try drilling holes into the branches and hiding his favourite food in it, so he has to chew to get to it properly. If he is a neophobe, don't go rushing in. Start with a twig. Leave it outside his cage at some distance for a day or two. Slowly bring it closer. Then put it against his cage. When he gets used to that put part of it inside his cage. Then, the whole thing. Once he gets used the sight/texture, gradually introduce bigger pieces. Make it more tempting like I described above by hiding his favourite food in it. Captive foraging will satisfy his foraging need, which I believe is very important for captive birds. It does help keep his beak trim, but healthy birds should not need to chew aggressively keep their beaks down. Instead I believe it is better in that it gives them something to do, since it is natural for them to destroy things when they are looking for food in the wild.

Just found the cutest thing ever and I had to share! I'm sure most of you will have seen Skateboarding Budgies on TV or the internet, but have you seen the other stuff those budgies do? Their site is here: http://skateboardingbudgies.blogspot.com/ They have videos of their cute skateboarding tricks too

Know what? This really made me think. And maybe it's true. As people of science, vets are not phased by 'synthetic' drugs and food because a lot of it is based on research and we have seen it work. We are very used to using drugs because we know for most of them exactly how and why they work, down to the biochemical basis of it. I know many pet owners (myself included) base a lot of their choices on experience. Anectodal evidence does not come under 'science' or 'research'. I am not criticising, only stating a fact. I feel like we are of different worlds sometimes, not that either is better, just that we are. (I personally don't agree with this view that "we must do it natural because natural is always better" but that is my own opinion. It's not like I say "drugs are the only answer", either) Recent debate among my peers about feeding formulated dog and cat food, and rabbit food, versus a more 'wild' type diet has made me think about formulated bird food as well. It made me question: Why do vets support it? When I think of my own experience I find that: our avian lecturers, and every avian vet I have spoken to, has recommended it. So I do too. When I asked why, they always said because seed is deficient and most owners find it difficult or are ignorant about feeding veggies. I accepted that. They also said that "there is a lot of research on it." But I never asked, "Show me." It gets taught at conferences and in textbooks. But I wonder where the source is - is it funded by a pellet company, and what does it actually say? So that is my current quest - I'm going to look for this 'research' all the vets and pellet companies talk about. I am not saying I am particularly sceptical, only that I want to be a person of science and go hunting for facts. There is a whole world of journals and research we have available to us (more so to me while I am a student). But I also think that if it is so widespread amongst my academic elders, there is probably a good reason for it. Perhaps it is because in their years they have seen too many cases of obesity, fatty tumours and hepatic lipidosis and hope to change tactics by changing the diet in this way. Maybe it is because they know more reliably what goes into pellets, whereas when you give veggies you might not know exactly what nutrients you're missing. Like you could feed a bunch of different ones and still be missing that one important nutrient. We really don't know what wild birds eat, but we can guess they will need certain basic essential items and those we can provide definitively. Side note - they are now manufactoring formulated diets for specific disease of birds, similar to the liver or kidney diets for dogs and cats. I guess they are trying to bring it up to speed with the dog and cat food industry. If anyone was wondering, my budgies get seeds and a lot of veggies. My conure is getting 25% pellets 25% seed and the rest veggies (my little experiment). So I am not against pellets as long as there is seed and veggies in the mix (a variety I think is the key). My budgies and my conure are all doing fine. But I wonder if my opinions will change after exploring this topic academically. I am also pleased that growing up with birdy people and spending my entire academic time here with you folks has (hopefully) made me a more balanced person/veterinarian. Daz, could you please show/link me Dr Phalen's article?

Beaks are designed to wear down by the way they move over each other during eating. Beaks overgrow when their rate of growth is not matched by the rate of wear. You could keep cutting it back but this is treating the symptom not the problem. You will most likely have to do this forever if you don't fix the underlying problem. The most common causes of beak overgrowth in budgies are scaly face mite, and liver disease (most commonly due to an all seed diet). They can also be born with the defect. Does she have any other signs like crusts on her face, green poops or tail bobbing? Are her nails overgrown as well? What is her diet like?

The world record for most words spoken by any non human animal is actually held by a budgie called Puck, who could say 1,728 words.

Because of the way the muscles in their feet are arranged, it's not any more uncomfortable for them to be holding onto the wire than to be holding onto a perch. If anything, being able to hold onto something with their beak as well might make them feel more secure. I think of it like this: when you relax your hand and let the muscles go into a neutral position, it curls up. You have to think about opening (or closing) it. When you stop thinking about keeping it open/closed it curls up again. For birds, when they relax their feet, it goes into a fully closed position, and they have to actively move their muscles to open it again. So they're not actually actively holding on, for them it is a natural relaxed state to have their feet closed.

Haha. My budgies did this as babies. I always joked that their beaks are too heavy for their little necks :glare: I once caught Squee when she fell asleep clucking away at her best friends (at the time), the bells. They don't do it anymore. Squee sleeps with her head tucked away and Milly sleeps on the wire. My conure, Oz, sleeps like that in his box. He'll also do it in my jumper when he can't be bothered going to his 'bed'.

Bactrim is the trade name for Trimethoprim sulfa. Trim Sulfa or TMS is a broad spectrum antibiotic, it has effects against both gram negative and gram positive bacteria. The sulfa bit will also treat coccidiosis. It is pretty cool in that the sulfonamide portion blocks one pathway in bacterial cell wall synthesis. There is widespread resistance against sulfonamides. The Trim portion was added, because it blocks a second step in the same process. So if you give both of these together, blocking two steps in the pathway, they are less likely (but not impossible) to form resistance against it. I am not for giving antibiotics without knowing what caused the disease, because if you don't give enough for long enough, or the bacteria isn't there at all, you promote resistance in that bacteria and also other bacteria, so it becomes less effective when you actually need it. You can make a problem worse this way.

No one's given them banana? Mine like it, I only give it as a treat. It gets sticky and gross if I leave it too long. As a general rule, the best things for them nutrition wise is dark green leafy things (silverbeet, spinach, broccoli, bok choy) and orange/yellow veggies (carrot, capsicum and corn). Fruit should be fed but they are more like treats (high sugar and water content), veggies have more nutritious value. Some types of cabbage are toxic so I'd avoid them. I'd like to clarify that lettuce, celery and other high water content things do not cause true diarrhoea (the dark bit of the faeces is soft), instead it increases their urine content (more watery component to the faeces), and it is not a sign of sickness when that happens. So it's not causing them actual harm. BUT the real reason we don't like giving them is because of their high water content, it doesn't give them anything good either, so you're better off feeding them something that will be good for them at the same time. You can give beetroot and beetroot leaves, but be warned it's messy, oh and their poops might go brown or even red. Try not to give them stuff out of a can, it's usually full of additives. The main things to avoid are onion, rhubarb and avacado.

Just wanted to share some news in relation to my degree, my life, and of course birds. A month ago, I wrote a letter to the Dean of the veterinary faculty at my school, about my passion for birds and my disappointment in the scarcity of avian vets. I spoke of my desire to become an avian vet, and having visited all the bird clinics in Victoria, to visit more up in Brisbane. All of it to help further my education and make me a good vet. Today, I was granted a travel bursary to fund my endeavour north! I was one of ten students who got one out of the eighty or so that applied. I dance a happy dance. The even more special thing is that my best friend, who convinced me to go north with her in the first place, also got one. The clinics we are visiting are down the street from each other. We were sort of relying on each other to be able to go. After our three weeks' work, we wanted hit the beach. We've both been dying to get away from the pressure and expectations, even for just a weekend. I was feeling angsty and worried because I felt like that dream of going away seemed so far away. Today, I am smiling. I kept being told how fast it would go, but now as I plan the last months of my course, I still can't believe it - because it went faster than I thought it could. In eight months, it will be Dr Chryso!

Oh I love them all! Each time I saw a new picture I thought, OMG, so beautiful and cute! They are all precious

I'm really sorry about your budgie Wei. I hope you find out soon so he can get better. I'd like to take this further off topic, but as a nearly-vet I thought I'd share my experience on the matter and defend my profession a bit. That particular comment stung me too, but of course everyone is entitled to an opinion. That sort of view you get used to after a while, SW. My friend does a little math on her blog. On the whole, (Australian) vets make average money for working longer (and I daresay harder, as a generalisation) than the average person. As for not naming names and vets visiting this site, it is definitely interesting the amount of times I've been at a clinic to drop by (I don't post much but I still drop by!) and the address pops up because someone at the clinic has been here. The veterinary community is also very small. I worked out who it was without even being in that country. If a plumber could not fix my problem because it was complicated, but had to use equipment that was expensive to operate in order to figure out what it was, I would still give him money to pay for the stuff he used. Otherwise he has to pay for it himself despite doing everything he could. SW is right, vets often devalue themselves by offering discounts, and then they have to pay the boss for it out of their own wages. I am not that particular vet so I cannot justify their acts personally. In my experience, returning phone calls is something I see regularly and most clinics even have a set time for making phone calls since it interferes with consults, treatment, surgery and emergencies. It is a service that should definitely be provided, as long as it is a reasonable time. One can't throw every test at a patient without being led by signs, because that costs the client more money (I personally would offer though). I would look at the bird, do a crop wash and faecal smear as a basic exam (it looks like they did that? I'm not sure from reading). One sign does not give you one answer. Sitting here reading I wish I could give you a straight answer, but all I can see is one sign that can be caused by many diseases. Those other diseases usually have other signs to guide you (Example: Vitamin A defcy you usually see lesions in the mouth and happens with seed only diets. Goitre is extremely rare but you can feel it. Canker you see on a crop wash etc). If your basic tests don't tell you anything, you could try the panel of tests (costing more money) or you treat the most common thing and if that doesn't work you treat the next most common thing. Something that is only respiratory, having done a full exam, I suspect first psittacosis and then bacteria. The test for psittacosis is about $70 from memory (would you pay for it and what would you say if it came back negative?) - but again I would still offer. I can't remember off the top of my head (clearly not a full vet yet!) but there is one broad spec antibiotic that has reasonable activity against chlamydophila but will get bacteria too. Still nothing, I'd do radiographs next to look at the air sacs and heart and see if it could give me any other clues ($50 per plate). These are just my views on the matter. Just to correct some things. Baytril is not the last antibiotic one would give, it's up with clav and as one of the most common broad spectrum options. About the other bird being fine - birds vary in their susceptibility to disease. Especially with chlamydophila, birds can carry it for a long time without showing anything, so one can't strictly rule out infectious causes. Possible aspergillus - this fungus tends to proliferate in damp, warm litter (linked to hygiene, possibly spoilt food), is there a source it could be in nearby? Is he sneezing, or is he coughing (or both?) The later is lower respiratory and is emitted from the mouth, the former is upper respiratory and is from the cere. I hope you get answers soon Wei. How are things going?

Thanks everyone. Dezdemona, be sure to post your captive foraging endeavours and ideas! I love seeing them and I'm sure others will too . I haven't got a photo of it yet, but I made the budgies a foraging tree. Here is Oz's tree, extremely undecorated. Photo was taken months ago. It looks so bare and messy there. Currently, it's filled with foraging toys, normal toys and drilled holes everywhere. I will take photos of the budgie one soon.

The picture shows red millet, but I think you might be referring to sorghum or milo. It's cheap filler material, makes the box heavier but it's too hard for them to crack.

Haha, I was going to say something like "hint hint, soon there will be another one to add to that list". I won't be what is colloquially called a "fully qualified" bird vet for another five or so years, but in the meantime it is my special interest so I am very happy for everyone to bring them to me (Any graduate with a vet degree can be very good at their special interest without having, or needing, another bunch of letters on the end of their name. They are still allowed to call themselves a bird or horse or cow vet, they choose to only see those types of animals and therefore get very experienced at it. It doesn't mean they are restricted from doing certain things, but they had be better sure they know what they are doing before they try it! So there are several more qualifications you can add to your basic degree to certify you have passed certain exams. In fact there aren't very many true bird "specialists" in Australia - only one in Victoria). Anyway, I hope to appearing on those lists in the next couple of years

Grr. I really hate this list because it's easily reached by searching, and lots of sites link and use information from it, but it's incredibly out of date! 1. As AV said, Dr Phil Sacks is a qualified bird vet, he works with Dr Pat MacWhirter at Highbury Vet Clinic, which is now called Burwood Vet Hospital. 2. Dr Colin Walker runs a bird-only clinic in Wantirna Sth, Knox Bird Clinic. 3. Dr Karl Harrigan has retired. There is no qualified bird vet at Melbourne Uni, Werribee (they will still take them, one of our vets is very keen on birds and exotics). 4. Dr Dave Madill has also retired. Dr Matthew Gosbell is now the bird vet at Springvale. 5. Dr Anne Fowler has moved to NSW, so she no longer works at Torquay. Not picking on you, just wanting to correct some information on that site.

Life has been very busy in Vetland. I've started my seventh semester, the last lot of theoretical and clinical practice before beng sent into the big wide world... and at the end of the year, to graduate with Dr in my name. It has gone insanely fast. We finally have our Birds subject! Yay! I've already got quite the reputation among my peers and future colleagues as Bird Girl, and I'm pleased to see it all falling into place. Oh and having visited all the bird vets in Victoria, I want visit some bird vets in Brisbane next semester. I've set things in motion and ache to be there, but have some obstacles to overcome like money, accom, flights and a place for my birds. Stressful. Thought I'd post a little teaser for an upcoming post. Here is my schedule for Semester 7: 09/02/09: Diagnostic imaging 16/02/09: Equine medicine and surgery 23/02/09: Paraclinical sciences 1 02/03/09: Paraclinical sciences 2 09/03/09: Special topics 1 16/03/09: Special topics 2 22/03/09: Intensive care and emergencies 1 30/03/09: Intensive care and emergencies 2 Easter break 20/04/09: Ruminants 1 27/04/09: Ruminants 2 04/05/09: Anaesthesiology 11/05/09: Small animal surgery 18/05/09: Small animal primary medicine 25/05/09: Small animal referral medicine

Totally with DrNat. Something else I can think of is to show her/the housemates what they could get out of the bird - a bonded, happy companion that they can all interact with. Try to educate subtly that it's not 'just a bird' - show her a tame, talking budgie that sits on your shoulder and preens your hair. Motivate her to want to change things. I'll bet it's eaten nothing but seed all its life too - maybe offer it some greens or fruit or gum leaves next time you visit. Personally, I would ask if you can rearrange the cage a little before actually doing anything - few people would say no if you offered help. Introduce yourself as a bird owner too and just comment that your own birds like certain things (rather than implying to her that she's mistreating the bird). Then offer to clean it while you're at it and that it's no trouble for you to do it. Take it slow and not forcefully. Some people resent it if you do things to their pet. Also, you might come off as a weird animal loving person (I know, it's totally not an insult to us at all, but your average person still thinks it's strange to be so devoted to an animal - particularly a bird). People are more likely to respond when they want to do something rather than having a person impose it on them. Otherwise things will keep going back to how they were. She probably loves her bird, but simply doesn't know she isn't treating it right. So show her what it could be instead of punishing her (taking it away or calling in authorities) for wanting to have a pet.

Immunisation is completely different to prophylactic medication, Daz. You don't create superbugs by boosting your own immune system. You do it by trying to kill something that probably isn't there.

Or he is too sick. Please, please perform strict quarantine with these guys. Sick, wild lorikeets often have circovirus. It causes 'french moult' in young budgies and hangs around for a long time in the environment unless disinfected properly. Also watch out for Chlamydia (psittacosis) which is endemic in our wild psittacine population. I'm not going into the registration debate but I urge that if you do decide to keep it, to see an avian vet, keep strict quarantine and watch for signs of sickness.

I must have missed something too. Was it an avian vet? What signs exactly are he showing? What were you doing in terms of trying to tame him?

It's no surprise, as UV light is required for the production of vitamin D3. Fifteen minutes each day in full sunlight (not through a window) should be enough. Your bird looks happy in the light

Hi ToffeeFluff, they sound so cute. Are they yours to keep or are you just looking after them for a little while? I'm a very huge fan of clicker training, but I guess it won't work too good if you're not keeping them. Still, if you teach them to fetch while you've got them I'm sure that'll be quite fun and most impressive Here is jwancia training her beloved McKenzie: Here is me training my girl Squee: http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a14/Chrys...current=133.flv Otherwise, anything involving food is good for gaining trust! Play with them, talk to them, and offer them new things to play with, explore or eat. I love playing hide-the-treat with them, just some millet or apple in my hand, they have to figure out where I've hidden it.