Chrysocome

Looks like you've gotten heaps of good advice about your new budgies. I'll join in and say enjoy them Oh and make sure you post pictures and keep us updated when you get them!

I have a white one and a blue one. For the sole reason that it fits in with my house colours. My guess would be that birds will initially be more comfortable with greens and blues because they associate them with natural things. Whereas they are not wired to understand black or red so much. I know my birds take to green toys straight away but tend to shy away from pink/purple. But I think in the end all birds will get used to it, I agree it's the new environment that is the key factor.

A change in poop is worrying. There are many other things besides food that can cause runny poos, some of which are very harmful. In addition to Elly's questions - What colour are his poos? Has anything changed in his environment? I have a related question to ask the board - is having it airtight a worry? I have read somewhere, I can't remember, that anaerobic conditions will promote the seeds to ferment. Is that right?

Relating to your last few comments - It's less the pathogens in the air, more that the body is busy trying to warm itself and might put things like its immune system aside just to stay alive. Cold won't put more virus in the air - in fact I think it decreases it - but your body might be too tired to fight it. Making heat is a very energy consuming. Birds need their internal temperature even higher than ours, so I would not chance at leaving a bird that was not used to it out in the cold if I could help it. I totally agree that they can be fine if they are used to somewhat constant conditions - I'm thinking of all those English budgies. But I believe it is the sudden changes in temperature, not a constant extreme that does it. Turning on and off those heat/cooling mechanisms suddenly must be hard on the body. So I think all drafts - warm or cold - should be avoided if possible. In the wild it is rare to have a cold ambient temperature with a really hot wind causing very quick sudden fluctuations in local temperature, or vice versa.

I had to train Milly to keep off my head - as others have said, dominant birds tend to sit higher up in the tree, so when they are above your face they feel they are in control of situations over you. In their minds they are the ones that initiate play/contact, and they are the ones that stop it - not you. It can be very nice to have a budgie kissing you and obsessing with your face, but sometimes it can be very annoying. Milly never played with my face but I intensely disliked having her on top of my head. A trick I had while I was trying to keep Milly off my head was to put her on one of my hands every single time, no matter what, at about shoulder level. When it looked like she was going to go for the head again, or the face, I would put the other hand up and force her to step up onto that one, and bring it back to shoulder level. I did this again and again until she realised that the head was not a fun place to go. She settled for walking up my arms to the shoulder. Milly and Squee both have a fascination with necks now, they must get onto shoulders no matter what and like to sit close to my neck as possible, I don't mind this, it makes a nice snuggly budgie scarf

Chrissie, thanks for updates. I'm sorry to hear about the liver disease and associated problems, and the possible tumour. I wish I could see what the bloods actually said. Did you get results from the biopsy too? On diet - you may have read somewhere that my budgies got pretty overweight. I don't feed my birds pellets either, not that I am against them, I just think there is a better way. Have you tried feeding them a good variety of different dark green and orange vegetables? Maybe a supplement in the water? Then also more exercise time (I assume this is a fatty liver problem since you mentioned lipomas and fatty lumps). I personally don't like the sound of an all-pellet diet, I would advise to continue with seed and lots of veggies as well as pellets. But perhaps somebody who advocates switching to pellets can tell you more about that. I just found a nice list of vitamins and the different foods that have a lot of it - I wonder if I can look this up and post it somewhere without plagiarising. Staph and Strep being secondary makes much more sense to me than the previous vet saying it was a main cause. She is right to be worried about testicular tumour, which occurs rather frequently in budgies. An X-ray is the way to go there. But there are a few other causes of leg problems as well. I believe in Occam's razor though, that one cause is more likely than two, and two more likely than three. I wonder if the leg problem is related to the bacteria. That is just my musing, don't take my word for it. I'm not certain either about padding perches, but I'm sure another member here can tell you about it. Diet is definitely a major factor in liver disease, so even if that wasn't the original cause it should help a lot. It is possible that Percy had a poor diet before you got him and his liver had already been pretty impaired already. Staph and Strep are also associated with hepatitis, and you are treating him for this too. All of it is helping. Lastly I must applaud you for being so devoted and caring to your budgie, it is always a pleasure to meet a person like you. We are all here because we are mad about budgies and are more than willing to help you in this time of need. The others are right - please keep posting and talk to us whenever you need to, as we all understand what you are going through. Big hugs. Again I wish you and Percy the best.

That is so sweet Glad to hear he's doing okay and your MIL is taking good care of him. To answer your question - when I went over there, I was a little jealous to see that Milly was responding to the friend looking after her (I didn't have Squee at this point). Then she saw me. I knew she had been pampered and cuddled, but she raced up to me, pushing on the bars and fluffing her head for scritchies. She was fine though, she just missed me! I also had some trouble convincing this friend to give her back! So it was all fine, just be sure to make constant check-ups and make certain the sitter knows the essential do's and don'ts :hap:

Well, that's what I meant, really- about writing it down, I meant posting here! I'll have you know that this is the only place I post in such detail about my pooey/smelly/vetty life. :hap: I have been watching A River Somewhere, my brother bought it. Now I'm itching to go travelling and to bring a video camera with me. It's my plan for now on when I go on my work placements. Speaking of, I just arranged some more weeks for work experience! *does a happy dance* Finally filling out the weeks, don't have to worry about them. Here is the plan: Winter (July): -Colac x2 (bovine practice, will be getting lots of calvings! Yay!) -Bacchus Marsh (mixed practice, mostly small animals in winter) Spring: -Bacchus Marsh (again, but more large animals- calving and lambing) Summer (January): -South Africa x3 (woo hoo! I keep telling everyone about this, so I think I will stop raving about it now ) -Hospital rotations x4 (SA medicine, SA surgery, equine rotation, emergencies) <- this is over Christmas/New year, so should be exciting Winter 2009: -Maffra (lots and lots of dairy!) [i just realised that the seasons might be misleading to some people here and put months in to help] I have two compulsory weeks to sort and at least five weeks I can put stuff in if I want. I am itching for another bird practice, the one I really really want is a bit too far for me, and the second bird place is rather doubtful about its existence apparently. I am really determined to fill out those remaining weeks with birds though. And finally, the most exciting news: My brother has a prospective job in Singapore. He isn't too sure about it, they are going through the interview process at the moment. But I am twitching with excitement at the sheer possibility. You see, in the second half of final year you can do your three months basically anywhere in the world. And what is in Singapore but this place: Jurong Bird Park! Can you imagine working there?? I have visited once before and I was blown away, especially by the birds of prey show. Oh my. *bounces* I have already started writing up an enquiry to them and prettifying my resume, just in case the waiting list is a year long like some zoos in Australia. :hap:

Thanks for the updates Chrissie, I have been worried about Percy. The new vet sounds like she knows what she's doing, I am glad she is being thorough with the tests. Please keep us posted. I can still give you a brief rundown of what I found, but I'm not sure how it helps right now. Staphylococcus It is commonly isolated from skin or mucosa of respiratory/digestive tract of birds that do not show signs. Clinical signs associated with Staph: arthritis, osteomyelitis, osteitis. Septicaemia often causes nonspecific signs such as lethargy, anorexia, flexed spine, ruffled feathers. Digits may be swollen, congested an painful, many affected birds show lameness. Streptococcus Considered to part of the normal flora of the skin and mucosa of digestive, respiratory and reproductive tracts. Often become disease-inducing agents when host defenses are down. The chronic form of disease typically causes inflammation of the joints. Birds can develop cardiac problems, which are difficult to diagnose and often causes breathing difficulty. Again, that bacterial isolation confuses me because it can be normal, and usually only overgrows when something else shows up. Your vet has done the right thing with the tests. Good luck! Fingers crossed the tests tell you straight up what's going on.

My very first reaction to how you described the signs was a kidney or testicular tumour. These can grow very fast, to a point where it presses on one leg nerve or both (that's when they stop trying to stand and maybe that's when you heard the crash) and then it stops the normal functioning of the organs in there like the gut, blood and kidneys. These kinds of tumours occur most commonly in budgies. The vet should have felt the legs and taken an X-ray - yes, they can take X-rays of budgies. The X-ray should show a mass if it was a tumour or any breaks if that happened. A stroke is possible but you wouldn't see that on X-ray. A really hard knock to the head or spine could have also caused the same signs. I am so very sorry for your loss *hugs* to you. You did the very best you could for your little one. Fly free little budgie.

Hmm. I can see there is a lot more urine and it seems discoloured. I would have suspected eucalyptus (green, lots of water), but you did say that you stopped for a week and nothing changed. The photo you posted looks like polyuria (not true diarrhoea). Here is what my text book says: (Avian Medicine: Principles and Application, by Ritchie, Harrison and Harrison (1994 Wingers Publishing, Florida; p149-50) Bright-green, loose feces and yellow, green or brown urates may indicate hemolysis or hepatitis and are common with malnutritional, toxic, chlamydial, bacterial or viral hepatitis. Urine may be excreted without urates when birds are nervous, polydipsic or consuming fruits and vegetables with a high-water content. Pathologic causes of polyuria include diabetes, renal disease, wasting disease, certain medications and exposure to various toxins. Finding bubbles (gas) in the feces is common in birds with true diarrhea. Diarrhea can occur with various parasitic, fungal, chlamydial, viral and bacterial infections, systemic diseases and following the administration of some medications. Unfortunately that is a very large range of possibilities, and I wish I could do a physical exam or some tests for you. I must really recommend you see a different vet if you don't have any confidence in this one. Have you tried this link? http://www.vetafarm.com.au/avian_vets.asp?state=nsw And here is a good site about polyuria: http://www.petplace.com/birds/polyuria-in-birds/page2.aspx One more question - how long has George had loose stools?

Hehe, yeah, I feel like I should be writing all this down so I can read back at my student days later and laugh (a lot). I said I would start writing it all here, way back in first year, but it's just been so hectic. This year is a little looser, as there are much more pracs, I hope I can keep this up though! The wedding was amazing, I had such a great time. I was bridesmaid, so I had to follow them everywhere, even though I was so exhausted, just had to keep smiling! But it was beautiful, everyone was so happy. And the food, omg, nine course meal. Photos maybe later. Unfortunately after being tired and already feeling a bit crappy in the nasopharynx (haha, vet school teaches me big words), when I got home I fell to pieces, my immune system finally gave in. I got really sick. Sunday I woke up at 3pm, had breakfast at 6pm and lunch at 10pm. That was strange. Today I'm just lazing around because my head hurts too much for me to try and study. I am a tad worried as this first showed when I came into contact with the horsey... stuff... if this hangs around I will go to the doctor. So.. sleeps for a few days, so the Vet show is on hiatus until I go back :hap: I think I will keep updating this thread instead of making new ones.

Sometimes when they give a broad spec antibiotic (Baytril), they throw an anti-fungal in there because some fungi thrive with antibiotics. I'm afraid I won't be much use tonight, I am exhausted and about to fall asleep at the keyboard. Some questions- is George the only one with the runny poos? What type of runny is it - is there more liquid urine in general or is the solid dark part more squishy (without more urine)? What colour are the poos? Do you notice tha George drinks more than the others? Does George have any other signs, like he has poor moults or isn't very chirpy? Has anything changed in his environment lately? Runny poos are a very general sign and can be due to lots of things. Some differentials I can think of off the top of my head- -Stress -Sudden change in diet -Food with high water content -Infection -Some medication -Kidney, intestine, liver disease -Diabetes As you can see, these are very broad, it depends on other signs and the results of tests. What other tests have they tried? $400 a month is pretty steep. Do you have another avian vet you can go to?

Jeez Elly, me too, I waited for the page to load thinking "nononononopleaseno!" Thank goodness. I totally understand how you feel - I had to leave Milly with a friend when I went overseas for a month. I was worried sick. I wrote up daily checklists and very clear dos and don'ts. I also checked in by email every few days, which was probably annoying, but I was too worried. They had never had birds before. Obviously they did okay, and Milly showed such spunk that they wanted a budgie of their own Hugs Elly, I'm sure he'll be fine. It's not so long and you can pop in to give him cuddles from all of us

Well after a cycle through the wash, my bag and clothes still stink, so it's going in again and I'll do what you suggested FGM, it's getting a big dose of deoderant, so is all my other stuff. Thanks guys, I really needed that yesterday, and yes I had a damn good cry after that big vent. ((((((Hugs)))))) back to you all! I'm feeling a bit better today, still tired and feeling rather frazzled, desperate for sleep, but happier (see below). My sincerest thanks to all of you. I let the batteries in my mp3 player run down, my notes and diary and stuff have been sitting outside in the sun, hopefully the smell will fade, if not I will try to get new ones. Kaz - Extra (hugs) to you, I really hope your week improves. Bea - It was indeed a dentistry prac. We had to examine all the teeth to see which ones need rasping. I was terrified sliding my fingers between those back molars, with my arm in to the elbow and the horse able snap my arm if he moved. In the stall next to us, someone accidentally jiggled their gag and it slammed shut. Luckily no one had their hands in there! Then we had to rasp those teeth. Sailor, luckily no textbooks, I think I might have died if any of my >$100 books were in there. I am so LUCKY my camera wasn't in there! ------- Today was a rather nice way to end the term (we are now going into two weeks 'holidays'. Most people are continuing their work experiences). After that worst prac ever, today I had the best one ever, followed by a pretty good one. No lectures, so I didn't need any of that stuff that got soaked yesterday. First was bovine obstetrics, with my favourite lecturer (that man is hilarious). Here is the 'cow'. It looks silly but it is surprisingly accurate. We got calves from the abbatoir and pretended they were live calves (yuck, I know). Each round, one person in the team was chosen to be 'vet'. The vet was in charge and everyone else had to listen to the vet. I loved that - none of this arguing over things. So first the vet was sent out of the room and the rest got the calf into position. There are very many ways a calf can be presented in the cow. It's often strange presentations causing the cow distress where the vet gets called out to get his/her hands in there and work out how to get it out. Sometimes we were mean and put the calf in upside down and backwards. The vet gets called back in, goes in blind and tries to figure out what's going on. I am always amazed by this - words can tell you a bit, but so much of it is by feel. Then the vet alone has to work out how the calf has to come out, and directs the others in the team. We learnt how to use obstetric chains (these can be wrapped around legs). And you may not believe this - eyehooks, which are very common for cow obstetrics. These are metal hooks that go into the eyesocket close to the nose, hook on and help position the head. It looks gross but doesn't hurt them at all. Eyehooks and chains in action. Don't you love my 'concentration face'? We came out of that prac smiling and thanking each other for the tough but interesting presentations. After bovine obstetrics, we had an orthopaedics prac. We practiced surgical approaches and placing pins in cadavers. Here is one of the nicer photos with the light conveniently placed so that the gross bit can't be seen. I'm placing a pin into the femur. http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a14/Chrys...et/IMG_2088.jpg All in all, a rather nice day. Although nobody actually apologised for yesterday, some of us admitted our flaws to each other, and I think that is a step to bringing us even closer together. There was no dramas and we had a lot of fun. Now I'd love to have a big sleep to start off the holidays, but my brother is getting married tomorrow! I am very happy, but wish I weren't so tired!

I am rather surprised about what he said about crop needles. The vets I have seen prefer to give oral meds given by crop tube (maybe it is different in your country?). I know I was terrified the first time and kept asking the vet to make sure I was in. But it is easy. It is pretty hard to get it in the trachea and you can tell by feeling it. I will try to explain Culture and Sensitivity. They take the sample from the infective area and grow it on a nutrient plate that bacteria thrive on. They then look at a bit of it under the microscope to see what type of bacteria it is. They can classify them using stains and the appearance of the bacteria. Campylobacter is associated with the intestine as well as the liver. Salmonella is associated with general signs of illness, and sometimes liver problems. So I guess they were looking at something that might link infection and the liver, but they didn't find those particular bacteria. They also take the culture plate and stick different circles of antibiotic around it and give it time to incubate. When they look at it later, circles can be clear or unchanged. The clear ones are where the antibiotic has killed the bacteria. The unchanged ones means that that antibiotic has no effect - they are resistant to it. They do this to make sure they don't use an antibiotic that is absolutely useless. So they figured out that the bacteria are resistant to amoxycillin (a penicillin), marbofloxacin, and sulphametoxazole/trimethroprim, but not clindamycin which is different to all those. Giving birds medicine registered for other animals is common practice. There are few that are specifically registered for birds. Staphylococcus and Streptococcus seem rather complicated at a first glance in my textbook. It seems like Percy has a chronic form of it - as others have mentioned, he carries it and seems okay, and it only shows up when he's particularly stressed. I must apologise, I am exhausted after a long day and now have to study for pracs tomorrow. I will sit down with the books on the weekend and tell you what I can find about Staph and Strep. I hope what I've written here helps somehow. At least with the full names you can have a look at it too. But please remember, I'm not an avian vet with the bird in front of me - I can only give my opinion from what you have told us. I hope it goes well on Friday and good luck. *hugs*

Not happy right now. Had the horse teeth prac today, which should have been interesting and fun. But it seems that when the uni decided to increase the intake of students for our year, they forgot that they needed to increase their facilities too. So basically there were not enough horse stalls, and too many students to each group. In the 38*C heat, and having lived together for five weeks solid, everyone just turned against each other, fighting over who got to do what while we had the horse in the stall and then with people who hadn't even got a stall yet. It was awful, and what's more, we had a stubborn horse. After he got fed up and was tossing his head around nearly breaking arms, we got another horse. And she was stubborn too! It was just not our day. We were the last group to leave, a good half hour behind everyone else. Then, at the end of that, I went to get my bag which was a metre from the sink. Well, apparently the sink broke. All the water drained away. Straight to my bag. So all my stuff is soaked. And what's more, it's soaked with the insides of about ten different horses' mouths. I am so upset. All my notes reek with a bad horsey smell, like bad as in imagine bad breath and teeth that haven't been cleaned... ever. My phone was wet and my rather expensive touch-screen mp3 player says 'fatal error' and refuses to turn off. I didn't realise how bad it was til I put the bag on so it got all over my clothes too. I was looking forward to going for a good drive with my mum today (I haven't been driving in about six months and need some practice). She made me go straight home, stripped me down in the backyard and sent me straight to the shower. My bag, wallet and pencil case went straight in the washer. My diary and my surgery book, the two things I use the most, just stink and there's nothing I can do about that at all. Also there's a faint trace of colour that tells me that there were also a bit of blood in that drain water. So I'm mad at me for putting it so near the sink and mad at everyone who proceeded to use the sink failing to notice that my stuff was wet and maybe kindly moving it out of the way. Someone else got her stuff wet too, not as bad as mine though. It also hurt because we were so irritated at each other, and no one gave me a second glance even though I was obviously upset. I mean I don't really need attention or sympathy or whatever to survive, but that little bit of unkindness just made me kind of break. These are my best friends, and that really hurt. SIGH. Very unhappy Have a bovine pregnancy prac tomorrow, followed by orthopaedic prac, with the same group members, I hope that goes okay. Here are some pics that were taken before all that unpleasantness. My friends call it the gallery of "Chryso elbow deep in...."

Chrissie, thank goodness he was all right. I was thinking of you and Percy all night and getting rather angry myself. I can explain the results and tests to you and then hit the textbooks/interwebs to see what else I can find out. I can also guide you on crop feeding. But I'm between classes right this moment and need to rush off. I just wanted to say *hugs* and thanks for the update.

They are beautiful the colours are so lovely. Great names too, I love them <3

Great shots! I love the first two, the colours and textures are just lovely. Try having the flash on - this usually reduces the shutter speed and decreases blur. You might wash out colours or it may be too dark if you're far away, but experiment with it, it works for me.

They are so cute! I love the first picture.

Chrissie, I'm sorry and hope your Percy is okay. *HUGS* You weren't to know what might happen. I am also questioning why he didn't give you a crop needle, or do it himself. It is so much safer. Giving birds liquid by syringe is something my lecturers say to avoid if we can - too easy to get it down the lungs. Whereas the chance of getting the crop needle down the trachea instead of oesophagus is small. Observation and hospital cage is the best thing right now, there is little you can do yourself to help a bird with aspiration pneumonia. Even a little bit of liquid in the lungs will make them cough a lot. It sounds like he is still able to breathe okay. If he can cough it all up he can get better. That is one scenario. Their respiratory systems are quite delicate and he is apparently battling infection at the same time. What do you know of his other illnesses? I ask because Strep tends to be a secondary invader when something else goes wrong, and you mentioned something about the liver. Strep itself can occasionally cause respiratory problems. As for meds... I would insist on a crop needle, or you could go buy one yourself. Alternatively they may keep him hospitalised for a while and do that for you. Otherwise, you might be able to switch to a different formulation that goes in the water or on the seed. At the moment they should be giving him antibiotic injections to help him against infection. *HUGS* I hope all goes well for you.

Bea, I squee'd. Here are Royston and Thena when they were babes, falling asleep on my hand. This counts as 'feathered'. right? :sad: Royston grew into a massive, gorgeous rooster. He was given back to the stud breeder because we're not allowed to have roosters in suburban areas. Thena still lives with me and is my favourite hen

Feathers, :(Laughing out loud):. Actually, my friend poked around a little too brusquely in there, pressed on the bladder, and well... you can guess what happened! Zebra: That's so exciting, growing up in South Africa with those animals in his backyard. (Although the same can probably be said for Australia, or any country I guess!) And it's the weirdest thing, before the prac I had no idea what the inside of a horse's bum felt like (er... there's something wrong with that statement) but now I have a vivid spatial memory of it. It's rather bizarre. They say: You know you're a vet student when you're covered in poop and still smiling. Birdluv: Well, at least you were given ample warning :(Laughing out loud):. Bea: Eh? But horses can freak out and kill you with one kick! Cows are generally too lazy for that Haha. I happen to love cows, though. I guess it all comes down to experience - knowing how to read the animal and I suppose knowing how much they can hurt you. I've been around lots of dairy and beef cattle and I feel pretty confident around them - even after getting my hand pummeled and mashed by a big tongue, had one step on my toes, and that time a cow in the crush slammed her head backwards onto my fingers.. ouch. I think I'm better around horses now, though I still give the back legs a wide berth if I can help it. FGM: Thank you. It's never too late to try, though! There are plenty of postgrad and mature entry students these days. One of my classmates posted this video of the horse anaesthesia prac, or half of it anyway. The purpose of the prac was to see the effect of different drug combinations they use in the field. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URVmpnhn7OY Case 3 was ours - she went down hard, poor girl! She was okay though, got up and was walking around fine afterwards. I think they broke most of her fall. The waking up wasn't shown here. Case 4 had one of the rather dangerous drug combinations. Basically, he staggered to his feet and just started charging at anything that moved! Eep.

I'm so sorry for your loss My heart sank when you said you cut the 'membrane' - I fear you cut the prolapsed reproductive tract, which was probably stretched over the egg (I see now some others came to the same conclusion). It is a classical situation that an animal appears in distress when an organ is stretched, feels fine when it ruptures (because it's no longer causing pressure discomfort), and then die shortly after from peritonitis (basically stuff that shouldn't be in the body cavity will cause irritation and infection). I strongly suggest you now find the number of an avian vet, even if there isn't one physically near you, being able to call them will help immensely. Regular vets are usually not experienced enough to know about birds. However, it is ultimately your responsibility to have medical help available when your bird is in need of it. An avian vet is best. But failing that, even a regular vet will have the drugs and equipment available to them and at the very least they can also contact an avian vet and then do what is needed. Again, I am sorry to be negative and deeply sorry for your loss.