Rainbow

Hmmm, question about goldenfaces....I may be totally off-base here, but..... Would you say the goldenface would have a deeper yellow on the face than elsewhere on the body? Or would it be the same intensity? For example, in this picture of Rainbow you can see the yellow on his head is a much deeper shade than the yellow everywhere else. Was he a goldenface type 2 or a regular yellowface type 2?

Holy moly, Daz..... I can't believe you typed all that in!!! :rip: I know for certain the hen is not split recessive pied or split clearwing, she just is visual clearwing. And no mutant 1 (do you mean yf on that daz?) I assume the cock is not split recessive either, is visual clearwing, and is visual type 2 yellowface, not split. Thanks to nerwen and daz. But, where did the green come from?

This has gotten very interesting. Thank you for all so far who have added their input. Everyone has very valid points. Now it's my turn to add a little. :rip: I agree wholeheartedly with what Gil has written, in that you have to start somewhere to improve your bird's diet. Vitamins in the water are not as good as vitamins sprinkled on food, which are not as good as vitamins from whole foods, but again, you have to start somewhere. It sounded like the question Gil originally got was about birds that weren't feeling well at all and what was something that could be done? He thought to begin with they were probably on a very poor diet. We all know how much what we eat affects the way we feel ourselves, so it makes sense to me to broaden that to include how our birds feel too. Once a bird becomes a seed junkie, they are not going to look at fresh veggies and say "OH these are much better for me, I'll feel great if I eat them, thank you so much". They are going to give you the equivalent of "What the.............???????" Why do you think conversion to pellets is so hard and needs to be done in stages? Why don't they just eat the nice broccoli stuck in their cage and be done with it? Budgies will starve themselves rather than immediately change their diet. I don't think Gil intended on this person keeping their birds on water vitamins and lettuce forever. He was just trying to get some type of nutrition into them to start with, some way. My thoughts, I may be wrong. Don't shoot the messenger in this case, I think he is only trying to help. For those of us with better access to veterinary care and good products the advice may have been a little different with respects to what products to try and how to administer them. Regarding seeds, in my opinion the shorter the ingredient list, the better quality the seeds. Things to think about: How good can they be if 10 lines of ingredients need to be added to make it "complete" or "high quality"? What was the quality of seed used to begin that is now requires all the additives? Granted, some are for longer shelf life and it's hard to get around that. Sometimes seeds are grown in iodine-depleted soil, or soil saturated with pesticides. (thanks daz) Organically grown seeds are best, seeds preserved with natural ingredients (vitamin E, orange oil, etc) are better than those preserved with stuff you can't pronounce. They will be more expensive, and will also have a shorter shelf life. Here shorter is better. You might have to look hard to find them, but they are out there. Do your research. But even with top of the line food, it still isn't as fresh and full of good things as seeds on the stalk in the wilds of Australia. I can't tell you how many times in the last 4 or 5 years I've changed my birds diets. The more you know, the better choices you can make. Thank goodness they love food. And if your birds won't try anything new, all I can say is no matter what, keep at it. You may have to try one new food every day, prepared in 10 different ways, for 6 months before your bird will try it. Then start on food number two. Every new food tasted is a small victory, and even if they eventually only accept a few additions to the diet, they are still a little better off than before. That's the goal. If you need to add vitamins, do it. Hopefully it is a temporary measure. I think it's easier if you have more than one bird, but if one is all you have don't be discouraged. It's normal for budgies to be suspect of new foods - it's a survival mechanism more than anything else I think. Luckily mine will eat most anything, or at least try it once. And I'll be willing to bet that even with all the stuff they eat, something could still be improved in their diet. It is a little sad that budgies have been kept as pets for as long as they have and something as basic as the proper diet hasn't been studied any more than it has. Protein requirements? huh? Mineral ratios? what? How much vitamin A? ummm..... Which form of calcium is most soluble? there's more than one form? How much of any of this is too much? It makes me angry and saddens me at the same time, because I love these little birds so much, but at least now information is out there, you just have to find it. Thankfully that is one reason we are all here. okay, I'm done. Thanks for listening. Next!

I'd leave them in unless they keep trying to return to the nest box. If they do, your hen will drive them out and it can get ugly if the babies don't get the hint. Otherwise, they should be fine. Congrats on the new egg! After this second clutch has fledged I'd remove the nest box and give her a rest.

michellec, what did you decide to do? I would definitely remove the budgies from the 'tiels. As far as the baby budgies not being fed much by momma bird, where is the male budgie? If you removed him he should be put back so he can take over the feeding duties.

Lin, do you think you will leave him where he is now, since he seems to be much happier?

Aw Lin, you're a peach. What COLORS do you think?

I don't have any spangles....

I think the babies will continue to be fed as long as the male is willing to feed them. LOL I had one hen that was still being fed at 16 weeks. Little piggy. I think usually they are pretty much done by 8 weeks, most babies are eating seed on their own by 6 weeks. They will still beg though, even after they are capable of feeding themselves.

If anyone would care to hazard a guess...what do you think one could expect by mating a clearwing opaline violet skyblue pied hen to a type 2 yellowface clearwing grey pied cock? There is a 50/50 possiblility the hen in question may be a doublefactor yellowface. Would a pairing to a normal (non-pied) hen be a better match? Thanks for the input.

Take the box out! Aren't they only a few months old??? She doesn't need time to get used to the box, and if you leave it in there is a good possiblilty they will use it before they are physically and emotionally ready. Once Sky is old enough you can add the box and nature will take it's course. She hasn't built up any stores of vitamins, minerals (esp. calcium) or strength yet. A few months in young birds isn't enough time for a true pair bond to form...if they are under 6 months when they feed each other it is not the feeding of pairs, it is babies still feeding babies. They all do that when they are young, it is a normal part of the maturation process. Babies will feed their siblings in the nest box before they can eat seed, and then turn around and beg food from their parents. If you breed them now in all likelihood they will ignore the eggs, ignore the babies, and/or ignore each other. In my opinion, they are pretending at parenthood at this age. It's just practice when they are young. Even though you may see signs of them feeding and trying to mate, it is like toddlers playing dress-up...it's practice. At 4 or 5 months of age, they are still growing up. Egg binding is a possibility too, as Sky's bones are not yet hardened all the way, and she may have more problems in the process of creating and laying an egg since her body is not ready for it. If I were you, I'd wait a year.

Oh my, Daz...have you seen this link? Something else to make your head spin.

You can pair these two: and get this motley crew: It's all fun! I would pair him to another blue bird, you will probably get a wide variety of shades. If you throw in opaline, pied, spangle, clearwing, or any other mutation or combination of mutations, your possiblilties are almost endless.

Nice pictures! Good find there, nerwen. The picture of the violet yellowface didn't show up for me, but if you click on the box where it is supposed to be the picture opens in a new window. What a gorgeous color!!! I agree about the grey - he looks like he has a bit of yellow bleedthrough in those grey feathers, doesn't he?

I believe goldenface is neither a type 1 or type 2 but a different variation of the yellow altogether. **edit** This is taken from the Yorke genetics site: GREEN, BLUE , YELLOWFACE & DARK FACTORS Normal Light Green is the natural state of the original wild budgerigar and any change in colour etc is due to a mutation. The Blue factor is a recessive mutation compared to the wild non-blue factor. The Dark factor is semi-dominant compared to the wild type non-dark factor. The Dark factor controls the shade of colour. Much controversy and confusion surround the Yellowface factor/s. Even now the true story may not be completely known. It is possible that two, three or even four different yellowface mutations exist, all of them with similar breeding rules and subtly different visual appearances. BUDGEN uses the theory that three different YellowFace mutations exist. 1) Australian Yellowface ( also believed to be called Goldenface) 2) Mutant 1 Yellowface (also called Type 1 or Creamface or Lemonface or English) 3) Mutant 2 Yellowface (also called Type 2 or English Type 2) In Australia, a common misconception is to use the terms Type 1&2 to describe the single and double factor Australian Yellowface. This is wrong. The use of the term "Mutant" should be encouraged to describe the Yellowface varieties and not the term "Type" as "Type" has another meaning when discussing genetics as will be explained below. All three Yellowface varieties are believed to be mutations of the same factor as that which causes green or blue colouring. Such cases of more than one mutation occurring at the same gene location are known as multiple allelomorphs (alleles). The Dark and Blue (therefore also Yellowface) factors are known to share the same chromosome. All factors which share common chromosomes should be looked at as linked groups of factors rather than as individual factors. Unfortunately Mother Nature isn't perfect and sometimes a pair of chromosomes can break in half and while they usually repair themselves it is common for them to swap places before rejoining. This process is known as genetic crossover. This crossover is known to occur between the Blue (and Yellowface) and Dark factors on average in 1 in every 7 cells. BUDGEN incorporates this 1 in 7 crossover value in its calculations. In most cases this crossover has no effect on results of any matings, however there are exceptions. This crossover causes two different genetics types of Dark Green/Blue known as Type I and Type II. and this is a link to a site regarding yellowface and goldenface rainbows. Both are very good explanations, I think.

Thank you for this information. I did not know that one reason for a budgie's beak to peel was calcium deficiency.

I'm very sorry. You really did everything you could, sometimes it just happens like this anyway. Thinking of you, I know it hurts.

nerwen, your link brought me back to this same thread. I'm confused now.

I think unless she ignores them or attacks them, I would leave them be. If they are that covered in feathers already the male should start paying more attention to them and start feeding more himself pretty soon. Can you tell any colors on the babies yet? I know what you mean about your hen looking pretty rough, but after a few days or so by herself she will start to look much better.

If they are that stickey, I wonder if she is not drinking enough and getting enough liquid?

The shell markings are the grey splotches on the wings. They are normally edged in the head/face color (in the case of my bird, yellow). Instead they are edged in the blue of her body.

Nicely done, Daz.

Skittles was going to lay her eggs in the back cushions of my sofa...

No, the head color is replaced by the body color. If she weren't opaline, not only would she have the bars across the back, but the shell markings would be edged in yellow, not the body color.

Lin, can you see the "V"?