Rainbow

Looks hormonal to me. Several of my birds have done that to me during hormonal stages. You don't want to encourage it. If you look at the video again, in the beginning as she starts to nip you can see her bob her head like she is going to regurgitate on you, she just doesn't. She places her feet on your fingers and wiggles around. Not aggressive behavior to me. She does not look like she is being cage aggressive. That would entail screaming and bloodletting. She also wouldn't leave and fly to the other side of the cage if she truly wanted to get rid of your presence. Also, parrots really don't have dominance issues. Their agenda is to get what they want when they think they want it, LOL. You don't need to push her back to show her you are boss. She wouldn't get that out of it. She knows you are bigger and stronger. Either it would be a game to her, or would chip away at the trust you have gained and be confusing to her. Biting is a learned behavior in response to living with humans. Parrots in the wild don't usually bite each other, even if they are angry. They will scream, fluff their feathers to look larger, and hack at the air with their beaks, but don't bite. In this case, I think she is using the biting as a displacement activity. She is frustrated. You cannot return her affections in 'that' way. Her hormones are starting to rise. I don't remember how old she is, but her behavior is indicitive of being around 6-9 months old. If I were you, I would not keep wiggling my fingers in her cage. I also would not be surprised if she begins to do this same behavior outside of the cage. When that occurs, thank her for her affections, tell you you love her too, set her down, and move away until she calms down. If it is hormonal, the behavior will pass soon.

Hello Tony, and welcome! We are glad to have you here. You have gotten some great responses so far, but I would like to go a little more in depth to some of your questions. We are keeping two Budgies (a green male and blue female) in a cage that is 2 feet from left to right, 14 inches front to back, and 22 inches tall. It has four perches, toys, dishes, ladder, & cuttlebone. I will be adding a mineral block soon. That size is fine for two birds as long as they have lots of out-of-cage time. An 18" x 18" base is the minimum recommended for one budgie, but I'm sure you have discovered, not many cages are sold that have the appropriate bar spacing for budgies are really large enough. As far as perches, I have a rope perch, a sisal boing perch, wooden perches, grape branches, tree branches, cholla wood branches, a cement perch and a calcium perch in my budgies cage. You want to vary the size and texture. Put the perch that most closely allows the bird to fit their foot 1/2 - 3/4 of the way around nearest the top, as that is where they will spend the most time and probably sleep. I use a wooden dowel, although you will read not to use those. My birds chew them up, so I don't mind using them. If you can keep at least three different types of toys in the cage, and rotate them out weekly, try to. It may take awhile before you find toys your birds will like. They are all different. Some budgies like the little plastic budgie toys with bells, others would rather something they can chew up. You will soon figure out what they like. If they really beat up a toy, you have found a winner! So, here come the questions: 1. I've read that you can use sand on the bottom of the cage. I understand it helps catch the waste and can be beneficial to the bird's claws and digestive system. Is it okay if I use any type of sand (specifically pool filter sand or play sand)? Or does it have to be "bird sand"? Just use newspaper. It is easy to change, and makes monitoring your birds droppings a breeze. If you are worried about the inks in the paper (in the US I think it is mandatory for newspapers to use a non-toxic, soy-based ink in case of ingestion by children) you can use paper towels. Sand, cob beddings, shredded pet beddings all tend to make owners not change the bedding so often. Molds and bacterium will grow quickly in those mediums, plus you cannot easily tell if there are changes in your birds droppings. You can also look into buying the newsprint end rolls from your newspaper, you just have to cut them to fit the tray of your cage. 2. How often should I give the birds treats like millet spray? The day I added the millet spray, they devoured it and didn't touch their regular seed food. What about the fruits and veggies? Millet is a favorite treat for most budgies. Some will eat it to the exclusion of other seeds, which is not good. But I'll bet if you look at the list of ingredients in your birdseed you will see millet near the top. Too much of any one item is not a good thing. If you give two birds a 2" spray from your hands once or twice a week it should be fine. Millet is a nice taming tool. 3. Wing clipping. Is it cruel? The birds came from the pet store with clipped wings. We have not decided on whether to keep them that way or not. We have children under the age of 5. It seems it would be safer for the birds if their wings were clipped because then if they got loose they would not be able to fly out of a window or door. We are willing to do whatever is best for the birds. This is a touchy subject. In the US wing clipping is the norm, whereas in other parts of the world it is not. Everyone looks at it differently. My opinion is that you must determine whether your birds are safer in the environment you have placed them in with clipped wings or without. It does make taming much easier if they are clipped, but that should not be the determining factor. I have found that it doesn't take long for a properly fledged bird to learn to navigate your house and avoid windows and mirrors. Many birds are not allowed to properly fledge before their wings are trimmed, and here lies some of the problem. Will your birds need to be able to get away from rambunctious children or other pets? Do you have ceiling fans that you keep in use? Can you close the doors to keep flighted birds out of the kitchen or bathroom? What kind of plants do you keep in the house? You don't want your birds to eat poisonous plants. 4. Should I be misting the birds every few days with warm water from a spray bottle? If they like it, you can. If they hate it, don't force it. Budgies are from Australia where rain is not always a reliable commodity. Some birds like to take a bath in wet lettuce leaves, parsley, or carrot tops. If they really want a good splash, most will figure out they can bathe in their water dishes. One reason to change the water several times a day. 5. How often should the Budgies go to the vet and is there any specific reason to take them if they are not acting sick? A well-birdie check up shortly after you bring them home is a good idea. Your vet will determine their general state of health, and also have a baseline to go by if your bird does happen to get sick later. It is also much easier to get worked in at the vet's in an emergency if you already have a doctor/patient relationship with one. When your bird needs emergency care is not the time to try to find a doctor. It is stressful enough knowing they don't feel well. If they are in good health, once a year will suffice for a checkup. Iceberg lettuce is not bad for them, but like celery, should be fed only occassionally, if at all, as it contains a lot of water, which can give the birds diahhorea. Giving veggies with a high water content will not give your bird diarrhea. It will show up as increased urine output, or polyuria. There is a difference. Diarrhea is when there is no formed stool at all. Veggies will not cause this condition unless they are bad. Polyuria looks like a very watery stool, but the feces part is still formed. This is normal, and makes sense if you think of it as extra water in, extra water out. I will also look into pellets (any specific brand I should be looking at?). Also, should I take the birds out for exercise even before they are trained to sit on my finger? Thanks again for all the help and, yes, I will get some picture soon! I use Harrison's pellets, which you can get from their website or through a veterinarian. You cannot buy them at the pet store. They are a completely organic pellet. My birds prefer the Mash size. Roudybush is another good one. Just look at the ingredients before you buy. If they contain questionable additives like ethoxyquin, BHA or BHT, excessive amounts of sugar or salt, then my advice would be to pass on that brand. It may take awhile to get them to eat pellets. Be prepared to try a few different brands before your birds find one they actually like. In addition to pellets and seed, add fresh or cooked (no salt or butter added) vegetables, cooked diets (Beak Appetit, Gardenfresh, Crazy Corn, etc), cooked rice, couscous,etc., sprouted seed (a real favorite), wheatgrass, eggfood, and maybe some fruits. Many budgies aren't too keen on more than a little bit of apple, but if they will eat them a little bit is fine. They do have a high water content. If you ever need to medicate your birds and the vet decides that meds in the water are the way to go, do not give any fruits or veggies to your birds while they are on the medication. The reason for this is that they will get their water from the food and won't drink as much of their medicated water, which will do no good. As far as taming them first, it will make things a lot easier, like Sailorwolf said. If you keep them in the cage for a month or so (however long it takes them to not freak when your hand is around, and maybe they will reliably step up when prompted) it will not hurt them. If you think you can get them back in the cage with a minimum of trauma (to you or them) you can try letting them out before they are tame. If they can fly, be prepared for the possibility of a few hours time before you get them back in (don't let them out when you have to be somewhere at a certain time, LOL, as you may be late!) If they have clipped wings, it is easy to retrieve them, so not as much of a worry. If they are clipped and you go to grab them, just be prepared to be bitten. They do it out of fear, not malice, as they cannot get away via flight. To fly away is instinctual as they don't trust you yet, and if their wings are clipped that option is not available to them. Biting is all they have left. If you get bitten, try not to show any reaction. They may draw blood, but you won't be going to the hospital to be stitched up. It hurts, but not unbearably so. I believe the birds are a little older already as they have no lines on the top of their head, the spots on their necks are well defined, beaks are light colored, and I can see a little white in their eyes. Hopefully this will not make taming and training them more difficult. If they are not used to being handled, they will be more skittish the older they are. If you can post pictures that might help determine their age (yes, I'm plugging for pictures, LOL). If the female already has a brown cere, she is at least 5 or 6 months old. But that is not necessarily bad, after all you have many years ahead of you (hopefully) to gain their trust. Taming could take many. many months. With parrots, instant results are not usually in the picture. I have a hen that was older when I got her (7 months + ) that still will not step up onto my finger (she is almost 5 now). But she is so tame in so many other respects that I don't mind she doesn't sit on my finger when I want her to. Please keep updating us on your progress with your new little feathered friends, and again, welcome!

I have frequently had two or more cages set up for my budgies before. I have always had good experiences with 'open house', and think it has lessened any cage territoriality issues they might have had. When I had 11 budgies, I pretty much let them pick which cage they would sleep in for the night, or if I had to leave let them pick who they wanted their cagemates to be until I came back to let them out again. Sometimes all 11 would end up in the same cage, LOL, and sometimes 3 would be in one and the rest in the other. In those cases I just randomly picked birds to move so to even out the cages. I knew their personalities, and during extremely hormonal periods there were certain birds that could not be kept together. But none of them were ever always kept in the same cage. If all three of yours keep getting along you could try the same thing to see if it works. I would let them have the run of cages for a few weeks before you decide to permanently move Baby. Sometimes they seem okay with each other as long as it is their choice to visit another cage. If they are forced to move before they are ready, there might be some tension between the girls. Giving it plenty of time will also let you know how frequently squabbles start to break out if they are all in the same cage while you are around to keep an eye on things. You will know whether it is a good idea or not. If more times than not they don't all choose to stay in the same cage with each other, you will know to keep them in seperate cages when you are not there. Don't you just love to watch them interact?

How about just going from George to Georgie?

Thanks for posting them Nathan - they look so happy and pretty! Hope you have a very Merry Christmas too, and I know you are enjoying your break from school. How could you not, with all those little bundles of feathers in your house! :budgiedance:

I loved them!! Thanks a million! I LOVE that little recessive pied boy...what a looker that one is...If I lived in Australia he would be gone! :budgiedance: And the pictures of them enjoying their greens were precious as well. What a merry Christmas all those little bundle of feathers must give you. I'm so jealous, LOL...it looks warm there!

It doesn't work with all birds. You did nothing wrong, your bird was just stressed. You had no way of knowing how she would react to cupping her in your hands until you did it. She came out of it fine, so now you know. If your bird is used to you holding her that way, no problem. Until that happens you know she could stress out. I have always held my birds very loosely, so that the least little struggle on their part would effect an escape. It took some time, but now they know I will not hurt them, and I can pick three of the 4 up at will and hold them with them not reacting at all. It took some doing, because usually when I would pick them up it would mean they were getting medications. Needless to say, they do not like being restrained and having icky liquids forced down them. It is a delicate balance, holding your budgie, because even though they are gregarious by nature and pretty friendly, they do not as a rule like to be held and stroked like some of the larger parrots do. It is just their nature - some will tolerate it, some will enjoy it, but most will dislike it intensely. I think it is because as Lovey said, it is too much like a precursor to something bad, like getting eaten. But after a dose of meds my work is cut out for me, luckily I have had all my birds for several years now and they take it all in stride. A vet visit with a competent vet should not be overly stressful for your bird, even if they are not used to being held. The vet knows how to hold your bird securely, and can do an exam very quickly to minimize stress. But if you can get your bird used to being held with nothing bad happening (in their minds anyway) it also makes the vet's job easier. :budgiedance:

Nathan1, are the bird's wings clipped or are they fully flighted? You will need to be more patient if they can fly away. That is not to say that if they still have their primaries that you need to clip them. Not at all. But taming will go a little slower if they can fly away, so you need to be prepared to have a bit more patience. :budgiedance: As Nerwen said, millet is a great motivator, but only if they know what it is. Also, if they are clipped, Nerwen's method will work pretty quickly. If they can still fly, I think it is better to start finger taming while they are still in the cage. It may take several weeks, even months, but do not lose heart. The big thing you are trying to achieve right now is gaining their trust, not necessarily getting them to sit on your hand. If you can get them to the point where they ignore your hand when you put it in the cage to change food and water, even toys, you are in a good place. If you can stroke their breast, lightly touch their feet or beaks and they do not move away...you are in a very good place. You cannot force trust from a parrot, and unfortunately you must go at their pace in the beginning. It is normal for us to want to move too fast, too soon, and to expect immediate results. I would start by talking to them - often! Sound like a broken record, and get used to talking to yourself, LOL. Tell them everything you are doing. If you are still in school, read your assignments to them. Tell them about your day. Get them used to hearing your voice, and associating it with calmness, attention, and eventually good food or treats. Whenever you need to change food or water, tell them what you are doing before you do it. Don't look them in the eye while your hands are in the cage in the beginning. Predators look directly at their prey. Just keep talking, and keep your movements slow and deliberate. Imagine how you would go about trying to befriend a wild animal, as basically your parakeet is just that - wild. Parrots are not domesticated in the sense cats or dogs are. It takes thousands of years to domesticate an animal. Do this whether they are trimmed or not. The end result will be the same. Good luck, and keep us posted about your progress.

She is a very pretty little girl. :budgiedance:

KaLi, How close is the backside of your bird this one? Not necessarily the same colors but are the markings and intensity similar?

Hello flyer, welcome. Your birds are too young to responsibly breed, in my opinion. Yes they can physically breed, but they are not finished developing either physically or emotionally. If your hen still has a white/blue cere, she has not entered breeding condition yet. Breeding condition entails more than just having a brown cere, even though the brown cere denotes the proper hormones are being produced. Budgies will "play" at being parents long before they are ready to become one. They will feed each other, and practice mating as young as 4 or 5 months of age. It is normal for an inexperienced male to fall off. Sometimes they just dance on the female's back and don't even try to mate. They don't know what to do. An extra female in the breeding cage will be a huge problem. I think your best course of action now would be to remove any nest box(es) you may have set up, and remove anything that could be remotely construed as a nesting site from the cage. If you are correct about their ages and they are about 10 months old, I would make sure you get them converted to a varied diet in the next few months. Next fall if you are still interested in breeding, then you can try to add a nest box. They will then be over a year and a half of age, and be in better shape nutritionally to withstand the rigors of raising a family. I don't remember seeing any pictures of your birds, but I will look. Would you mind posting some recent photos of your birds? Not only do we really just love to look at everyone's budgies, , but I would be able to better give you an indication of their ages since there seems to be some confusion. We could also give you some ideas about what to expect to appear in the nestbox when they do breed. That is exciting too - the guessing! :budgiedance: What happened before that your birds flew away after laying eggs? That is highly unusual...

Me too Phoebe.

UV light is essential if your birds don't have access to the real outdoors. I use full-spectrum lighting, and do notice a difference in their behavior and activity levels. I have read that the lighting must be within 2-3 feet of the birds, but right now I have bulbs in the ceiling fan (regular 8' ceilings) and can tell a difference from when I had regular bulbs there. I would say the birds are about 5' from the lights. Look for one that has a 5000 K (kelvin) temperature rating. At one time I also used a full-spectrum bulb in a regular lamp, and the birds used to love to sit on the lampshade. Of course, they loved to chew the lampshade up...but I prefer to think they were just occupying themselves while getting some artificial sun instead of just being destructive....:hap: Here is a nice article taken from the Amazona Society that explains in detail about full-spectrum lighting. It should help you make up your mind and also tells you what to look for and why. http://amazonaonline.com/TAS/modules/artic...rticle.php?c9/6

Welcome to the forums! From the avatar and your description I think you have a single factor dominant pied which is also type 2 yellowface. I also think dilute, as you state the pastel-watercolor effect of coloring. The green on his chest in your avatar reminds me of a bird I had a few years ago...he was a seafoam greenish color on his chest and across the back of his wings, with a pretty slate-blue patch on the rump. The light grey coloring you describe of the cheek spots and head barring also tells me this bird is dilute. Does the barring continue with the same intensity down the back and across the wings, or is the color on the back the same color as on the chest with no barring? If there is a "V" of color where normally there is barring, he is also opaline. In most pet shops, anything other than a normal green or normal blue is classified as a "rare". Some shops will even charge more for "rares" whether they are really rare or not. And I'll bet not too many of them know much of anything about budgerigar genetics... I'm looking forward to pics! He sounds lovely.

What a cutie! She looks like she really likes hamming it up for the camera! I'll bet she has LOADS of personality! More pictures pleease.... How old is she now?

LOL, they even have carrot FEET.....ROFL. Too cute!

I really don't notice it. My birds seem to have favorite perching places, one of which thankfully is the top of the cage, LOL, so cleanup is not too much of an issue. I have a layer of newspaper under and around the cage, so much of that cleanup involves moving the cage to get the paper, and putting clean newspaper down. One thing to remember, is that your birds will "go" right before or right as they take off. You should find that once they let you in on their favorite sitting spots, cleanup will be more 'predictable'. If you are stepping in it, that means it is not on your furniture. Be thankful for small favors! :hap:

I didn't realize you had the log hung up already! They have a very nice little corner going on there. I also didn't realize you wanted them to breed. I think I would be a little nervous about taking out the eggs and putting them back in too...it looks like it would be very easy to have one fall out. As Nerwen said, eggs are laid on an every-other-day schedule. The first one usually hatches around day # 18, and they will hatch every other day in the order they were laid. Don't worry if they don't all hatch. There is a learning curve with budgie parents too, and they may not get everything right the first time around. I would mark on a calendar the dates the eggs were laid, so it is easy for you to see when they should hatch. Any that don't hatch by a week after the last egg should have hatched are safe to dispose of. It is not necessary to candle the eggs if you are not comfortable with it. You will know soon enough whether they mated (successfully) or not. If they do hatch, I would suggest finding some way to deeply cushion the area below the log. In a breeding box, there is room for the babies to move around some. It is also an enclosed space. In that little log, I think as the babies are begging for food and pushing each other out of the way it would be very easy for one to be pushed out. A fall from that height would not be good for a baby a few days old. It doesn't take long before the babies are the same size (usually larger) than the parents are. I hope all goes the way you want it to. :hap: Keep us posted!

He should be fine in a cage with another male. Most males are very accepting of company, no matter what the sex of the bird. Just make sure they have enough room. There may be a few squabbles if the older males are very territorial of their cage, so keep a close watch on them at first. It will be easier if they are all used to being in each others cages anyway. Do you let them all out at the same time? If not, maybe start to for a week or so before beginning to move them around. Keep the cages open so they can all explore. It might help ease any territorial issues you may be unaware of. If you are worried about it and have a suitable extra cage, by all means put him by himself. Whatever will be safest for your birds - you know them best.

If you want to ease system stress and help keep the gut populated with the right type of flora, use a probiotic made for birds or give them a small amount of plain yogurt for a few days. It is a proactive treatment. Probiotics can be sprinkled on seeds or pellets. I know that budgies hull their seeds, but small amounts of the supplement should be ingested as they roll the seed around in their mouths to get the hull off. You just won't know how much. If you must wait a few days for a vet visit if your bird is ill, I would keep the bird warm and in a hospital cage instead of dosing OTC meds from a pet store. I wouldn't give any meds I bought from a pet store. Many vets will work birds in same day, as they know by the time the bird is showing symptoms of illness, it is already very sick and probably needs immediate treatment. If you think you got a healthy bird to begin with, try probiotics first. It is similar to you eating yogurt while you are on antibiotics, as an imbalance of the gut flora can wreak havoc on our systems too.

I would introduce them outside the cage. If you have the cages and room, I would take her brother out, leave her in the cage alone for a week or so, then add her to the other male's cage. Only to get her used to not sharing a cage with what has been her "mate" all this time. She may be more accepting of another male that way. If they are not really bonded and more buddies, the transition will be easier for them both. I assume all the cages are in the same room so all your birds have eye and ear contact with each other. If not, don't leave her in solitary confinement. I wouldn't add the male to her cage. The male will probably be eager for company, whereas females may not take kindly to having "their" territory invaded.

Budgies are so gregarious that it is unusual for them to take an intense dislike to another budgie. Most fighting and bickering takes place in the home due to perceived competition...competition for food, a good sleeping spot, your attention, enough "space" or "breathing room", etc. A lot of people think there is a hierarchy or pecking order with birds, but in my experience I haven't really seen that. Some days one of my budgies will seem like "top bird", other days another bird is. It is a dynamic relationship that changes sometimes hourly. Parrots can be likened to toddlers. If someone else has something then they want it. NOW. Whether they really want it or not is a moot point. They don't even have to know what something is. If another bird looks like it is having fun with it, enjoying it, getting attention from it, eating it, etc. then the rest "all of a sudden" want it too. The next time you have free time, really watch your birds interact and think of toddlers while you watch them. I think you will see what I mean. This is one area where normal budgie jealousy can work in your favor. I read in one of your other posts about introducing them all to eating from a plate...so you have experienced it a little yourself. If a real fight breaks out, try a diversion first. Turn up the TV really loud real quick with the remote. Toss a book or magazine on the floor, clap your hands, something to create a sudden loud diversion. That is usually enough to make them stop. I would break them up with your hands as a last resort, only because if they associate all that anger with you grabbing them, there is a good chance any taming you have accomplished will go right out the window. Obviously if there is blood and they are ignoring everything else but their intent on gutting the other, then you need to break them up however you can with your hands. But I've never seen budgies that intent on each other. I suppose it could happen in a breeding situation, but that isn't the case with you. Be aware that hens need more "personal space" than the boys do. Most squabbles will probably be between your hens. Even if they dislike each other, given enough space and little or no competition for toys, food, attention, or perching spots they should tolerate each other. Keep us updated!

As long as there are fully formed feathers on the side of that first one, they should cushion any knocks. Blood feathers are more resilient than they look, but as long as you can see the sheath covering the feather, it can bleed if broken. As long as he can fly well, you probably don't have anything to worry about. I don't know exactly how long they take to grow in, as I don't pay any attention to that with my birds. I have never had one break a blood feather. I would guess about 10 days to 2 weeks?

Sounds like some budgies might be a little bored...just like people, I think they eat when they are bored. After all, most of our birds have 24/7 access to food of some type. I have budgies that are battling the bulge also, and have had to somewhat restrict their access to food. More calories in minus fewer calories expended equals weight gain. Even if they are still flying around, if they are eating more calories they will gain weight. That is a huge weight gain for a month though. I think I would re-weigh them first of all. If you are truly getting the same weights, then for whatever reason, they are eating more than usual. I think you should add some seed to their diet, as they will get some vitamins, minerals, and oils from the seeds. Decrease the amount of pellets. Many birds that eat pellets start to eat the same amount of pellet as they used to eat of seed. Since pellets are a more concentrated food, not as much is needed to maintain weight. What I have done is to try to have only the amount of pelleted food that they would all eat as a full meal (if they were to eat one consisting only of pellets) in one sitting, and that is what I leave in the cage during the day. I don't have it down to a science yet. From reading and research, I have come to the conclusion that they do not need access to food all the time. Wild birds don't have food sitting in front of them all the time. If they go a few hours without it, what will happen? They will be hungry, they will be more likely to eat what you feed them then, and (at least my hope is) that they will get on a more normal eating schedule. Most birds forage in the morning and again at night, with the occassional opportunistic snack during the day. Most parrots sleep in the mid-afternoon. I think a few of mine were eating when they should have been resting those beaks, LOL. I feed them in the mornings, and again in the evening. During the day they can eat pellets, but I'm finding they are more excited about whatever I bring for dinner than they have been in the past. And are more likely to eat it instead of play around with it, step in it, fling it on the walls, flip it on the floor....well they still do those things but not as quickly. They eat first, then play. Before it was the other way around. Definitely keep us posted about what you do, and your successes and failures. For something as basic as food, it sure is a complex issue. I am very interested in what works and what doesn't. I'm finding it very tough to get the weight off my birds.

Nice pics. But I can't access your other pictures through the links. I think you need to make your album public to do that.