Rainbow

It looks to be at least twice the size of your old one, and definitely an accomplishment to be proud of! I see an aviary that anyone of us would love to have in our backyards. I'd be showing that off to anyone that would look at it. Well done, Daz, Well done!!!!

How long did it take you to notice this was happening???? This condition does not happen overnight. You need to take Bubbles advice, and if you are not able to devote the time right now to do it and take care of those poor babies, you need to take them to the vet ASAP and do what they tell you to. It is not right to allow the condition to continue without going above and beyond to try to correct it. A bit more attention on your part would have either prevented this from happening altogether or at least correction would have begun. Judging from the responses to this thread already, several people have tried to give you advice that was not heeded. For the sake of those babies and any babies that may follow, please listen now. How old were the parents of this clutch? The hen I'll bet was too young to breed and this probably contributed to how tightly she sat on the babies. Unfortunately, if this is the first clutch, the second one will not be far behind...and I would recommend you not allow it to happen until next breeding season, if at all.

I agree. You have a female.

Do you know who the manufacturer is? What about dimensions? It looks like it would fit on the same wall my current budgie cage is on, but looks deeper and a little taller. I like it. It looks like 4 budgies with "personal space issues" would fit in it okay... To look at it in person, what do you think?

Any white or tan denotes female. Not all female's ceres will turn tan/brown during their first molt. Some will wait until closer to a year before they are brown, and that is normal. They are just later developers. One of my dominant pied hens cere was whitish until she was around a year old. It does not mean there is anything wrong. Can you clarify though, in your original post you said the cere was dark pink with a little white, and the last thing you said was that it was whitish-tan, going brown. Is it dark pink or whitish-tan?

Bea, what kind of cage is your 'tiel cage? I need a new one for my girls...they grump too much at night, LOL.

Well then here's hoping no news is good news!!! I'm sorry you have felt so poorly...awful stuff. I hope you are feeling better now. Oh, and GREAT pics on your aviary! Wonderful!

Hmmmm....that's how I got my babies....!! For first-time parents I thought they did really well.

Some good advice all around, but I would like to really stress not to use gloves!!! How traumatic is that? Budgies do not bite so hard that you require a trip for stitches, and they do find gloves to be terrifying. Plus when you have gloves on, you cannot really tell how much pressure you are putting on them, or if you have managed to push a wing, some feathers, or a leg too far in a direction it is not supposed to go... :ausb: Birds breathe differently than mammals do, and if you compress their chest you can suffocate them. If you are bitten it is due to fear. In which case you need to find a new alternative to whatever you were trying to accomplish, as if they are that afraid, it is time to step back anyway.

LOL, No I don't! But there are no little boy budgies to really get things going either. Although 2 of my hens have begun to feed each other *sigh* and that is a bit unusual for them...but this is the first time I have been without any male budgies for years. It could be a normal outlet for them now. That makes quite a bit of sense, hath. If you pair them up when the cere is tan changing to chocolate brown, by the time they mate and eggs are laid, estrogen levels will be pretty high. I had not really factored in the constants of 'indoor temps' and light cycles. All those things contribute, don't they? LOL the only thing I had factored in before was the constant water running from the washer right outside their room! (Although without the males around they are not nearly as broody, thank goodness, as I can't change where the washer is located!)

I don't know about that not being the norm, LOL. Skittles is 5 and has always been in "breeding condition" with the exception of a few weeks. The babies are 3 now, and the hens have always been "in condition" since puberty. I think it is normal.

Daz, doesn't that mean brown is breeding condition if tan is coming into breeding condition? The cere color is a result of the levels of estrogen in the hens body. As the color changes, estrogen levels are either rising or falling depending upon which way the color is going. At a constant level the color remains the same. Past breeding condition would mean the color of the cere is fading due to falling levels of estrogen.

Thank You. I'm not surprised Stan is acting a little clingy, and you are wonderful for giving him the extra attention. I'm glad most of his behavior is normal instead of otherwise. I am sure that is a relief for you also. I'm glad you are leaning toward getting another bird. Another budgie can provide many things that we as caretakers cannot, no matter how much we wish we could. Even if it is just that another bird speaks budgie fluently!

Females of breeding age won't have pinkish ceres, so it shouldn't be that color again. Mine are always in breeding condition, so I don't think there is a set time for it to last. I only have 4 hens now, and all of them always have brown crusty ceres. They've not been around a male budgie for 9 months. Skittles is 5 years old, and she has only not been in breeding condition once and that was shortly after her second clutch of babies had hatched. Her cere turned a light tannish white color for about 4 or 5 weeks, then went back to crusty brown once they had fledged and she wasn't feeding them anymore. It won't hurt them to be in breeding mode, it just means estrogen levels are high.

Hello Karl, and welcome to the forum. I am sorry for your loss, it is so hard to lose a budgie. Everyone here knows how you probably feel, and we feel with you. It is very difficult to answer some of the questions you have posed. I can tell you unequivocally that budgies do grieve. There is no doubt in my mind that after 11 years with Sadie, Stan is feeling depressed and anxious. He will probably call for her and might become visibly upset when she does not answer. You will need to give him extra attention, because I think he is probably also feeling a bit lost without her. 11 years is a long time, it is probably forever as far as Stan is concerned. I am unsure how to answer your question about getting another budgie, though. Since they were companions for so long, he may see a strange budgie as a nuisance, especially a young one that will probably be after him to fly and play quite a bit, and will also subject him to the "terrible two's" and "terrible teen's" phases that a budgie goes through in its first year of life. He may or may not be up to that, you will have to determine that as best you can judging by what you know of his personality and how he copes in the next week or so. He may also look upon a new budgie as an intruder initially and show some aggression (be it out of character or not). On the other hand, budgies are usually gregarious and love being around others of their own kind as well as their humans. If you decide to get another bird, be prepared for the possibility at least at first, that Stan may not want anything to do with him or her. Quarantine will be one way to tell, since they will not have contact with each other except via hearing, if Stan seems eager to talk to the other budgie, you may not have problems. If not, he could just not be ready to socialize. There are a lot of variables here, and most all of them hinge on the unknown, unfortunately. I can't tell you if he will die of grief without another bird, because each bird is different, and I know it happens. All I can advise is for you to really think about his personality, and your heart will tell you yes or no. Just make sure you are giving him extra attention now. As far as letting him view Sadie, I honestly don't know what to tell you. When Rainbow died, he was in the cage with his family. (Long story, but he had a kidney tumor and towards the end had to be caged seperately for his safety much of the time. This particular night everyone was getting along and he really wanted to be with the rest of the birds.) When I found him the other birds had not bothered him at all, but with hindsight, I know they were in the beginning stages of grief. It took them about 2 months before they acted what I would term 'normal', and we are talking 10 birds. Even with each other's company plus my own, it took awhile before they created a new routine they were comfortable with. They really seemed lost for awhile, as their routine was definitely disrupted. Stan's routine has taken 11 years to establish. Rainbow's presence was missed by more than just me, believe me. Mine saw him die, they also saw me prepare him for burial, and place him in a box. I told them what happened and what I was doing. A big part of that was for me too, as hearing it out loud helped me with closure. I don't know how Stan would take seeing Sadie right now, as it has been a few days and he may be getting used to the idea that she is missing. I think right now I wouldn't, when it first occurred, I probably would have. Like Daz said, if he stops eating for more than a day, I would be concerned. He may be lethargic because he is grieving. My birds didn't do much for awhile. Again, you have to listen to your instincts with what you know of living with Stan for over 12 years. I truly wish you the best, and hope that Stan is able to cope with the loss of his partner as well as possible. And again, I am very sorry for your loss. Oh, and quarantine should be followed in case the new bird is hiding illness. Most illnesses will show up within the 30-45 day timetable, and you will be able to treat the new bird without exposing Stan to possible illness. This is also why quarantine should be observed in different rooms. Take care of Stan first, then the new bird. After any cage cleaning, taming, etc. of the new bird make sure to wash your hands (maybe even change clothes) before you interact with Stan again. It may seem like a pain, but one bird is easier to treat than multiple birds, and since Stan's immune sytem will probably be a little down due to the stress of Sadie's passing, he may not be able to fight off any germs as well as if things were like they used to be. A vet check of the new bird within a few days of bringing him/her home is a good idea. This also gives your vet a baseline to go by as the bird grows. **edit** If it hadn't taken me so long to write up my novella, I would have realized that armchairangel said a good deal of what I did while I was typing!

Hello and welcome! I love your screen name. If you've only had Harry a week, he hasn't had much time to get used to you or his new surroundings. He is probably frightened. But if he freaks out when you get near him I would hazzard a guess that he has not been handled much. At that age curiosity usually outweighs fear and they are pretty easy to tame. I'm guessing he still has all his flights, which is very good! 8 weeks is much too young to trim. When he is out, how is his navigation? Does he crash much, or is he able to hover, do insame acrobatics, and turn on a dime in the air? You want him to be able to do the latter before you think about trimming his wings, if that becomes an option for you to keep him safe. I would back off just a little for the next few days. Using gloves around a bird is usually pretty traumatic for them, and since you can't feel as well how tightly you are holding them, you run the risk of suffocating them (budgies breathe differently than we do) if you compress the chest. I don't know what kind of schedule you have, but if you are able to just be in and out of the room he is in several times, and just talk to him, whistle, and eat in front of him. Maybe a time or two get close to the cage and talk to him with your hands behind your back. Right now he is scared of your hands, so if he doesn't see them all the time at this stage that would be good. When you change his food, water, and cage paper, do so in slow motion, and explain to him what you are doing while you are doing it. It won't matter exactly what you say, the idea is to get him used to your voice, and you being near him with absolutely nothing scary happening. Since he is so young, he should soon start to pay much attention to the cadence of your voice instead of what your hands are doing, although he will keep an eye on them. This is when you can introduce him to millet spray, if you haven't already. Cut a short piece, maybe 2" long, and hold it near him. If you can do it in the cage, great, if he is still flighty, poke it through the cage bars next to him. Hold your fingers between the bars so that he has to be near your fingers to eat the millet. Pretend to eat it yourself, and tell him how yummy it is and how much he wants it. When he looks forward to the millet, give it to him with your hand inside the cage. This may take several days, or several weeks. It all depends upon his personality. In the beginning he will be the one calling the shots, but your goal is to create a trust bond between you. The finger taming and handling of him will come later. You will know when you both are ready for that. At first when you hold him, let him 'tunnel' through your hands. I don't know if you've ever had a hamster or not, but you will know what I mean if you have. As long as you don't squeeze or hurt him, he won't get that stressed out about tunnelling, as he can still move. It's when they can't that real panic sets in, unless they are used to being held. It's something you will do gradually. I wouldn't worry too much about holding him right now, as probably most budgies do not like to be held. He may eventually like it, but more likely he will just tolerate it. Head scritches will likely be a different matter though, and if you are holding him for short periods a few scritchies to get him used to the idea would be good. You'll know if he likes it soon enough. I'd work on getting to the point where you can feed him from your hand and put your hands inside his cage without him getting spastic. Then you can start having him learn to step on your finger. You will probably find that he likes the millet so much that he will jump on your hand without thinking about it to get at it. Just find a pace that works for both of you. It may seem like it takes a long time in the beginning, but if you have him for the next 10 years or so, the time spent building a good foundation between you really isn't much time at all. I'm sure others will be on to give some more and different tips. Keep us posted!

Hello and Welcome! I have a violet hen named Blueberry too, but she is pied. She got her name because the area between her wings is the color of a blueberry. You can see her a bit in my signature. Your birds are absolutely gorgeous. Jack and Blueberry look very stately together. And of course the baby pictures are adorable. I agree with your thinking that hen is mauve. Her cheek flashes are very dark. I can't wait to see the rest of your flock!

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You don't have to have anything in the nest box, they will manage quite well with just the wood flooring. The babies will not be deformed, but I think you have heard this because if the hen sits too tightly the babies can have splayed legs. This can happen with bedding also. Just watch for it, because if it does happen if caught early enough can be corrected. Actually Bubbles has posted her remedy elsewhere, which I would recommend looking into if you have a problem. But odds are, you won't. I haven't much experience with breeding, but what little I do have does not indicate problems if you don't put bedding in the nest box. I tried it with my hen, but she kept throwing it out so I kept the box bare. 9 babies hatched and were perfectly fine with just the bare box and no concave. After about the three week mark, the droppings from the babies get a little wetter so you will need to be diligent about cleaning out the box daily. Before then, they are not messy and dry quickly with a tendency to powder easily, and the hen and cock will remove them from the box on their own. It seemed at about three weeks the poops from the babies were larger and the consistency of the crop milk had changed enough that the parents had a more difficult time removing all the poo by themselves. I'm sorry you are having trouble with your pair. It sounds like your hen is not really happy about breeding at this point in time. My guess is that the male is new at this, and does not feed her as quickly or as often as she would like. It seems like most problems with my pair were a result of this. As long as the hen is kept happy, she has no reason to turn on her mate. I'm not sure what to advise to help him "get it" any faster. For his safety, if things are as violent as you say, I think I would remove him for his safety.

Surely you must be mistaken! How on earth could bubs that cute and adorable and innnocent-looking....ever be accused of "bad behavior"..... Surely not THEMMMMMMM.............

I don't see any white on the chest...it looks to me like grey down with the beginnings of yellow feathers in the band area. Right below the chin it almost looks like you can see skin. I see the grey area under the tail too, and this also looks like down growing back in. If you look at where the leg meets the body, the feathers are not long there like usual...they look gone with fuzzy grey down in their place. It could be my eyes and monitor, but that is what it looks like to me. Those feathers do not look like fully formed feathers.

My birds like anything they can destroy.

I think maybe if you give it another week or so, they may outgrow it. It sounds like they are just not ready to be seperated. I went through something similar when I seperated the first clutch of babies by themselves while mom and dad were busy with the second. After two days of screaming I put them back in with Dad (as he was the one doing all the screaming!) and they stopped. I bought a second identical cage I think within the week, placed it next to the first one, and then put the babies in it by themselves and all was well. I wouldn't force them apart, after all if it takes another week or two for them to gain a bit more confidence with being more independent, then so what? A few weeks really isn't a big deal to us, but could make all the world of difference to your babies.

You know, Sailorwolf, that is an excellent way to describe it!

Actually the easiest way if you are going to towel him is to use a washcloth. It is the perfect size for budgies. :fear But unless Jim sits exceptionally still while you clip, it really is safest as a two-person job. If your wife won't hold Jim maybe she will do the clipping? If not, I really recommend you have a friend with you (with good eyesight, LOL) to do the trimming while you hold him. It can be done by yourself, but is very tricky if Jim moves at all. The hard part is that you need two hands to clip feet - one to keep them straight and unsnagged from the washcloth (and keep them that way as you go through each toe), and the other to trim them.