First of all, I am not a breeder so this may dismiss me in some of your minds as capable of giving breeding advice. On the other hand, what breeders do has affected my birds and myself deeply so I feel I have a point of view worth sharing. Furthermore, I learn all I can and am not speaking out of ignorance in regards to "the way things are." I'm going to tell you though, how things are supposed to be.

 

Whether you are breeding dogs, cats, budgies, rabbits, whatever, there is (or rather, should be) one goal. It is what good breeders are to strive for, even those that breed for show (especially those that breed for show). It is one that seems to get overlooked in most breeding programs but especially with budgies. The goal of breeding, first and foremost, is to produce a healthy, long-lived, specimen. Appearance is next, if you're breeding for show but health is number one. I know opinions differ, but the fact is that THIS is what professional, responsible breeding is all about no matter what animal you are breeding.

 

One well-known example is the German Shepherd Dog. Its most common defect is hip displaysia so a good breeder tests his/her dogs for this before even thinking of breeding them. In budgies, the number one defect is tumors. As a responsible breeder, your goal should be to breed hardier birds who are less prone to developing tumors. Most budgies develop tumors around age five or six, which is, as we all know, far younger than a budgie's lifespan is supposed to be. Some budgies develop them much younger, as is the case with my Pippin.

 

So, how can a breeder possibly know whether or not he's producing birds that develop tumors as they age? The first step would be to try and buy (and breed) only birds that come from another breeder who carefully monitors these things. That means a breeder who actually keeps in touch with the people who buy his birds and, through the years, can track what ailments befall the babies at what age. The next step is to do this for the babies you breed yourself.

 

It doesn't matter if your pet budgies came from a breeder or a pet store or just fell out of the sky one day. This will likely affect every one of us or already has. To be completely out of control of Pippin's tumor is something that haunts me every day. To know that this will likely happen to most or all of my other birds as they age is heartbreaking. To know that this is a result of human selfishness is infuriating.

 

It's not about the colors, the posture, the throat spots, or the markings. It's about how they're going to feel five years from now or if they'll even be around. How many of them are going to end up suffering and dying way before their time.

 

What good is a "champion" budgie that only lives five years and produces offspring that only life that long? Pip's one *** of a cute baby but cute won't save him from his cancer. It won't save any of the birds that are bred.

 

Good breeding is first and foremost about health and vitality. Not what mutation you're going to get. As fun as that is, it's also very selfish. It should be your second motivation to breed, not your first. Breeding birds from unknown backgrounds should stop. Better records should be kept. There are plenty of backyard breeders in this world but it's time for some others to step up to the plate and breed in a way that is respectable. What most breeders do with their budgies would be shocking if it were done with any other animal.

 

Now, I'm sure most of you are thinking "that will never happen." The point is that it CAN happen. It's a decision a breeder must make. It's one that is possible, but only if someone pursues it. It's definitely not impossible and shouldn't be treated as such.

 

I still can't believe I have a four month old budgie with a tumor. And it's completely out of my control. How much does the budgie gene pool have to deteriorate before people start trying to do something about it?

You make some good points there Terri. But I dont see it happening. Heck, we cant even control the people that breed, (Laughing out loud). Thats very sad about you little 4 mo. old. So young. My mum has had dalmations all my life, and she has another one with tumors all over her. Cancer is a horid thing, my father-in-law has battled it the last few years, and now we have found out that my mother-in-law probably has lung cancer.

There should be more thought put into proffesional breeding of any animal, but a lot of the time its all based on $$$ and nothing more.

Good points Terri. Breeding of animals has caused some horrible things to happen to them, and we all need to be that little bit more responsible. We can't control what other people do, but we can make a difference by doing the right thing ourselves. I have just bred my last clutch, and, as we all know I'm a softie, they will all be staying with me. That way I know what will happen to them, and there will not be any inbreeding happening if someone takes a couple of them.

:ausb: Nobody could feel more sorry about Pippin than I Terri (did you read my post on why people have the need to breed budgies?) but I am not sure we can lay the blame on all breeders exclusively plus things happen idiopathically without reason as they do with humans but I feel your pain.

Phoebe, it's not an opinion but a fact that inbreeding/careless breeding has led to this. It is something I'm sure of (as are most educated people including my avian vets).

 

It's easy to say "I can't see it happening" and then continue to breed the easy way. What's hard is not even being a breeder but dealing with the result of one. What's hard is applying ointment to a baby's tumor twice a day just so it won't get infected but knowing tomorrow the tumor will be bigger and the bird is going to die. What's hard was listening to that baby try his hardest NOT to scream while the vet was pulling away the scab. What's hard is trying to figure out how the *** to say goodbye to a bird that was supposed to live MUCH longer than this.

 

What's easy is throwing in a nest box, some food, and saying "I can't see it happening" to people who demand a higher standard.

 

If even a few of you started doing things a little different, it could make a HUGE impact on lives. Even if it's just the lives you touch locally. I can see that happening because I know very well it's possible. Everything has to have a start, I wish at least one breeder would be just that.

 

No animal deserves what Pippin and so many other budgies go through. And it's all for such selfish reasons.

I feel your grief Terri, it is so sad that your poor little Pippin should have to go through this so young in his life. However we can't assume that this is the breeders fault. Cancer is a strange ailment at is not always genetic. It is a mutation that can come through genetically or from the environment, although because Pippin is so young it is most likely genetic. However the parents may have been carriers of the gene so they were perfectly healthy and it did not appear in them at all and thus the breeder did not know when they bred those two birds together. We need to give them the benefit of the doubt sometimes.

I definately agree with you about the fact that people shouldn't breed just for the sake of it or for the money, it is just selfish.

However with Pippin's case and so many cases, it could be because of irresponsible breeding, or it could be due to outside factors.

All I can say is that I'm glad you have Pippin and that you are looking after him, because it will be your love that makes the difference, and I hope he does the best that he can, because I know you will.

Talk to your vet and do some reading about budgies. Their hugest health issue (though they have many) is tumors due to bad breeding. They have been heavily inbred from the beginning to produce all those mutations. Most of the time, they don't even live long enough for other factors to come into play. Five to six years really isn't very long.

 

There is no good excuse for a breeder to not try and reverse this. It's the very core of why breeding is supposed to happen in the first place. Sadly, with budgies, it's become more of a game of colors and posture than an effort to actually produce a healthier, hardier animal. Just look at what we've done with the english budgie. While I do like them, I have to admit that when I look at them I can't help but think "deformed" because that's exactly what they are. And all the weight on their breast and back only leads to even more issues with them than the other budgies.

 

I'm tired and I need to sleep. This is really pointless.

Eterri I agree with just about everything you have put up. But there is a problem in what you have said. Most Budgies develop the tumours in about 4 to 6 years of age. I breedig terms that is 4 to 6 generations. It is difficult to go back to the great grand father (4th Generation) to great great great grand father (6th generation) and try to reverse what has been done. One thing to remember is that with the breeding program that has been going on for over a century, the english have improved the health and life span of the budgerigar. We as humans where designed to live for no more than 40 years. in over 2000 years we have doubled that. Budgies are the same. But with longertivity there is a pay off.

 

Cancer is still a greatly unknow desease in humans. Some of it is known but a lot isn't. If we are that unsure of the desease in our selves, we will know less in the budgerigars.

 

As one that is starting to breed for show. I want a healthy bird first and the required look second.

 

In the subject of inbreeding....this always causes an up roar.... Does anyone besides Hath and I know what it really is?

Edited April 7, 200619 yr by daz

I agree with you Terri.

Edited April 7, 200619 yr by karen

So I understand and have better knowledge Daz (this is not to make this post off topic - we can start a new one).

 

I would like to know WHY and what it is. I have read on it and that in-breeding can be beneficial because if the budgie is carrying a genetic abnormality this genetic issue is found faster (yes by sacrificing a clutch of budgies) but because it was found so fast because of in-breeding, no more clutches are sacrificed because the birds that are carrying those genes are retired from breeding. This is what I have read - this is NOT an opinion of my own.

 

As for the actual topic at hand, Terri it is not pointless to state the facts at hand people need to know the realities of budgie breeding, the good bad and ugly. Sadly there is allot of bad and ugly, in breeding any type of animal. Although most tumors are genetic, the question is what has made these genes to mutate into bad genes? I do believe yes it is in breeding, I mean look at the German Shepherds, I feel sick when I see such low hip stance, but that is what the rings calls for. My cousin paid 7K for 2 knee replacements on her 2yr old St. Bernard (does she breed NO) was she a victim YES.

 

I do believe it is there are environmental factors involved. The fact is that 30 years ago cancer was unheard of in humans, now it is so prevalent in our most precious children. The industrial revolution started back in the 70's, and the problem is that we as humans, want convenience, the easiest and fastest way to get it done and we buy, and fuel the manufacturers. We ALL DO IT. These chemicals from factories, cars, etc.. we breathe in, along with our pets, wildlife etc...can and I believe mutate our gene pools. Erin Brockavich (sp??) was a great movie to show that manufactures do not want to take responsibility for their actions. I mean look at the Vioxx cases going out, my mom was on that - thank God I didn't loose her but I lost my dad last year to long term medicine that the MD SHOULD have know about, that damaged his kidneys. Did the MD take responsibility NO, will the manufactures of the drug NO? They are actually protected by the laws of the US government.

 

You know I can go on and one..why because this is my profession, I have learned much about the chemicals in our homes from cleaning products, to personal care, prescription drugs, to pressed woods that many of our products are made out of period. Our homes are more dangerous to live inside then sitting in our cars on a packed highway.

 

I suppose I am going off topic here, who knows now. We all need to be responsible, we all need to be aware of the genetic pool, outside factors, chemicals in our homes & our aviaries and more.

 

Terri, understand, that though out of say 10 breeders you may touch 1 today and that is okay, I work in an industry where people say Elly, I have used bleach in my home, my grandparents used it etc.. and I am still alive - I will continue to use these unsafe products in my home (this is the mentality of most of society). This is why advocated get so ticked, riot and then put in jail because they are frustrated that people don't listen to them.

 

Today people will read what you have to say, and I guarantee that you will enhance someone, not everyone, but someone and that is what is important, sure you are going to have people come here and say you your statements don't mean anything, they don't agree with them etc... You have to tell yourself, that though it is NOT okay, you can't change their thoughts but you will touch someone. Much of what you say and even others on these boards, have made me so much more award of these little birds, something 6 months ago I didn't even think about. There is much sorrow in our lives, and I wish we could avoid it all but we can't. Continue to make your statements, don't let anyone make you feel like you can't voice your opinion and never think that what you say is pointless because it is not. I remember the post Phoebe started about breeding, it got a little hot there for a couple posts but she stated how she felt, and that is GOOD!

 

We all have the right to view our opinions it is our born right.

Edited April 7, 200619 yr by lovey

Extremely well said, .....everyone really......especially Lovey's last statement. Not forgetting Terri's heartfelt imparting of her sound knowledge and opinions. All have a point to make and it is being received in the manner it was intended. It is thought provoking and makes us all think and search for more knowledge and meaning to the tumor debate. I myself have been learning more and more over the past few days not wanting to put my head in the sand either. I believe cancers and tumors are a result of many things. In fact, if we could pinpoint the exact way they come about we would have the cure. It is with great anguish that we have to watch helplessly the suffering of dear friends and their beloved feathered friends, in order to learn more. This forum is the place to learn, discuss and thirst for more knowledge .........and who knows maybe find the solution.

Good point Karen... if you have a "Bad bird" don't let it breed... But with genetics you can not see the genetic make up of the bird. So how do you know... DNA testing. I have a friend with over five hundred birds. at $80 per birds....thats...not a financial issue.

 

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Loveyly inbreeding or line breeding, what the breeders like to call it has a purpose...

Let me say that Adalf Hitler was right. We can strengthen the strain. We can perfect he breed. We can breed the ideal. Luck for us the alias won.

 

In breeding is where you take a speciment. (let me break it down to a basic form). You breed the specimine against two of the oppersite sex.

The offspring of the two opersite sex are breed together. Cousin against cousin. Then the offspring of those is breed back agains the specimen.

First generation has 50% of the specimen genes. second generation has 25% of the specimen genes.

The last generation has 75% of the specimen gene. You arestrengtheningg the strain.

 

In Eterri's case. If the specimen is resilient to cancer. his off spring is advantaged. Isn't this good...????? Maybe not.

 

Breeding is taking one individual and trying to improve the off spring. (genetic Engineering - naturally).

Is this good or bad.

 

We as humans take a morl stance... I do.

But in the wild the budgies do not relate mother and son, father and daughter... The issue is the survival of the species. I have seen a father try to mate with the female off spring as soon as she is fledged. To us ...that is not right, but to the budgies ...this is natural.

 

There is so many issues that we can just touch on.. saying it is the breeders fault is not alway correct. The breeders of the past have produced what we see today and the life expectancy. Is it not good that we have so many different verieties and that the birds live longer? This was done by inbreeding and line breeding... I may not be in favour of it but I can not deny that it has produce what we love.

Edited April 7, 200619 yr by daz

Cancers and tumors do come from many things, but in budgies the number one cause is bad breeding. I'm not sure why this has turned into a debate as it is common knowledge, not something we're unsure of.

 

With this knowledge, breeders should start trying to repair the damage earlier breeders have done. I know it wouldn't be easy but it has to start somewhere or else it doesn't improve. No, not all tumors are related to bad breeding but MANY of them are when it comes to budgies. We really need to start keeping track of the birds being bred and what ailments befall them at what age. What diet were they on (as diet does link to fatty tumors; not cancerous ones but fatty ones) and what mutation were they and who were the parent birds.

 

If there are no breeders who do this already, it should start. And if there are, those are the ones we should seek when we want budgies, especially for breeding. I know finding someone who goes through that effort is nearly (or maybe completely) impossible at this point, but it would be nice if more and more people started taking these things into consideration.

 

I've lost many people in my life to cancer. Not birds, but people. I'm not going to say people who have cancer shouldn't "breed" as it's apples and oranges. People have free will to do whatever they please. WE choose what birds to breed from the very beginning. They are selectively bred whether a breeder is doing it for color, size, health, or all of the above. This is not something that can be easily compared as this problem is a result of our need to change an animal that was perfectly fine to begin with.

 

And Daz, in response to what you just posted, that's fine and well. That's line breeding but that's different to inbreeding. Inbreeding is careless and has happened for a LONG time purely to create striking mutations. And even with line breeding, if you haven't researched your birds and their offspring and their parents well, how do you know you're not just passing down more bad genes? How will you know you're even breeding a bird that is resilient to tumors?

Edited April 7, 200619 yr by eterri

Eterri I do not agree with Inbreeding. Line breedig I amunsure of. What what excactly is "Bad Breeding" that you speakof. Please explain to me and others as I am curious? You say that you can not know that you have a bird resiliant to turmers, how do you know that you have one that is suseptible to tumours and shouldent breed with them?

 

And as you know I am living with my wife who has Cancer, so I know the pain you have felt.

Edited April 7, 200619 yr by daz

"I'm not sure why this has turned into a debate as it is common knowledge, not something we're unsure of."

 

I don't think this post is debating the issue that tumors are very common in budgies - everyone is agreeing.

 

I believe what is being debated or discussed is how breeders can be more reponsible on breeding their budgies, what can also cause tumors in budgies, and how they can be prevented.

 

And that is good

By bad breeding I mean breeding with birds whose background you're unsure of and/or breeding with appearance in mind before health and longevity. By knowing a bird's history you can get a very good idea of whether or not it is susceptible to genetic tumors. It would still come down to the breeder you buy from and what type of records they keep, but it would be nice if there were more people who attempted to keep track of these things. I know it's not always possible as life gets in the way and sometimes you just CAN'T keep in touch with where all your babies go. But most breeders keep their better birds to continue breeding with and these should be carefully observed over the years.

 

I know it's not something that can happen overnight or something that is easy to do. But it would certainly help budgies in the long run if it happened more often.

 

And Daz, this is off topic but I do want to say that I really am sorry for what you and your wife are having to go through. I can't imagine how difficult it must be and it's just not fair. I really can't wait for the day when someone finally discovers something that will make a huge impact on those living with cancer or family members (friends, loved ones...) who have it.

Edited April 7, 200619 yr by eterri

As with anything, more awareness on the issue at hand is what will continue to ensure a good line of healthy budgies. Years ago, people didn't care about how they breed their dogs as much as they do now. There were a small group of people that cared, and started to ask for standards.

 

There is more awareness right now in the dog & cat industry because they are the #1 pet - and there are so many in shelters. Purebreed are not immune to shelter life.

 

Thank goodness spaying/neutering is finally starting to become more the norm. Before you could purchase a purebreed, and on their registration it said nothing about if they allowed this animal to breed, now a responsible breeder can check off that the animal is not to be breed and makes sure that they are spayed or neutered. There is still so much that needs to be tackled on the area of pets, still way too many abuse cases, and it will never be perfect but with people like you, and others on these boards, and others all over the world, the statement will be heard. This is why you should never let anyone silence you or make you give up on what you believe.

 

Now more and more dogs are being sold with certification of good eyes, hips and a responsible breeder will guarantee it for life. We hope that these responsible breeders, will push out the backyard breeders (is it possible, probably not because the price is cheaper on dogs that are backyard breed - but awareness makes the different). Some people go the cheap route not realizing that if the pay the extra money for a pet with certification it could save them hundreds of dollars on vet bills during the duration of their life. If my cousin knew that her puppy would have bad knees in 2 years and it would cost her 7K, would she have reconsidered? She knew they were prone but she didn't ask the question if the parents or grandparents had knee problems, because she followed her heart, the cost of the puppy?? Who knows..I never asked her, she would be offended. But if you knew that the parents had knee problems, wouldn't that make you consider twice?

 

As the budgie & all birds, there is more and more awareness. I am coming across new rescue sites all the time, there is a new one that just opened up here in Ohio that I saw on the list. This is GOOD!!

 

As breeders, pet owners, pet show owners, even those who don't have pets we all have a responsibility in the piece of the pie. Breeder can be more responsible in breeding and make sure they don't breed a budgie once it has shown to breed a genetic defect. Either add them to the aviary, or find them a home where they know for a fact they will not breed. Responsible rescues, have that in their contract that they do not sell their birds to breed and if they are a rescue that sticks by their word they will follow-up with the new forever owner. There are good and bad among rescues too ,

 

We as pet owners can make sure we ask questions about the birds before we purchase them and make the decision to give the pet store owner the business. We as pet owners, can report good pet stores as well as bad pet stores, how will the ASCPA know about them if we don't make them aware. We can write a letter to the pet store, about their service, management etc...will it make a different who knows but you will never know if you don't try.

 

As a pet store owner, we can ensure that though yes we sell birds for a profit, that this profit is in the best interest of the birds. By ensuring the birds they purchase to sell are from good breeders, and ensuring that the time at the pet store be healthy, well feed, and in a good enviroment.

 

1 person can't do it all but as a team we can make the difference slowly but surely. Look at the progress that has already been made with more rescue groups out there then ever for birds, in 20 years I believe it can only get better. Because of good people like us.

Edited April 7, 200619 yr by lovey

I don't think the reasons for tumors in budgies is as cut and dried as being primarily a breeding problem. That's not from a breeding standpoint but pure and simple common sense. Let's go back to basics. You take a wild budgie, assume it is a healthy one with no history of tumors ( and how would you know that ? ) and make it a pet ( you've taken it's freedom )....and that's change number one. You start feeding it what you either assume is correct or are advised is the correct diet for this type of bird ( you have just changed it's natural diet ). That's change number two. You put it either in a large flight aviary or an indoors cage ( you are changing it's basic habits, reducing it's exercise regime by probably many hundreds of kilometers per week, restricting it's migratory nature, and placing it in your environment good or bad )...There's change number three and four. You put the bird in contact with substances it has not encountered in the wild....plastics, metals, chemicals, health additives, and dietary supplements.....There's a whole lot more changes to the initial life of a wild budgerigar. Just another part would be breeding it with perhaps not the best specimen you could hope for.

How do you know that the original budgie was surviving without pre exisiting health issues before you take that wild budgie and make it a pet ? How do you know in actual fact how long that budgie would have lived in it's wild existance ? Surely the life of a wild budgie would be hazardous in the extreme.

I truly believe that it's all too easy to find answers by looking in one direction when many things come into play in order to arrive at the budgie we all have and most of us buy at a pet shop or local breeder. We all have these pets....number one ....because they are so cute and loveable. Number two....because they are affordable mostly. Number three because they are readily available to us from our existing sources. If anyone truly believes that the current predisposition towards tumors in budgies is primarily breeding......then stop buying budgies from anywhere but your own 10th generation budgie bred by yourself in your own backyard. Admittedly this "super" budgie you have finally bred would owe you a great deal of money after the huge battery of tests you have run ( if these test would exist ) , vet fees you have accumulated, and trials in natural budgie diets as compared to store bought products. This budgie would have cost you great amounts of money just housing it without using modern fabricated substances. How do you allow that budgie it's natural exercise and migratory pattern whilst trying to breed from it ? Homing budgie ? If you haven't had to sell all you own to pay for and arrive at this "super" budgie......what then would you have ?? Still an unknown quantity, just as some mutations take us completely by surprise........so would we still be surprised by what we would end up with......healthwise. We live in an uncertain world, where horrible things happen for no good reason. We try to learn. to educate and to move on in life with better understanding, new knowledge. And hopefully answers for the things which bring us to tears and tear us up inside when faced with a lack of solutions.

I breed some of my budgies and I make no apologies to anyone for that. I don't breed continuously, interbreed, or commercially breed for sale. My birds give me great pleasure and I hope I give them a good life. I try to choose budgies for robust health and good size when choosing my birds. It's not all about pretty colours....although even the most avid "budgie rights" fighters would OOH and AHH over colours. Indeed many have chosen their pet first and foremost due to it's colour. How many have said......" I went to a pet store just for a look and WHOOPS came home with the most adorable budgie or two or three ?" And are we pleased when everyone else says how pretty and cute our new baby is ? Of course we are. It's hard to fight an instinct where when we see that appealing face in the pet store or breeders aviary.....we just melt and add to our "family" . If we were looking at a 10th generation "super budgie" carefully bred with the breeders solemn word that their bird was bred with a tumor resistance ( but NO they couldn't guarantee that ) and then.....we were told the bird actually cost us a million dollars....would we buy that bird???!! Of course we wouldn't !

So we pay the price we do, from the supplier we either choose, or the one with the prettiest budgies, and we go home and take our chances. We give this budgie an unnatural place to live, and unnatural diet, a restrictive amount of space, intervention and health care from mostly non specialists........what do we have then? A budgie that we love to bits as it has wormed it's way into our hearts in all of 5 seconds from that first wistful glance in the window or aviary. And all we do is love it, care for it and do the best we can.

I agree Karen, it would be interesting to read studies on animals in the zoos vs the wild, and their health. You see they live longer in capitivy because we have medince to treat practically every problem out there. Human brains are amazing, aren't they.

 

I watch this documentary on living on the fronteer, 3 families had to live just like they did back in the 1800, and boy was it interesting. One thing I asked my husband is that these people were so physically fit compared to us now but their average life expectency was 40 now it is 75 on average why? I mean we eat more ****, we don't exercise, cancer is more prevelant etc... It is because of human intervention, we learned "evolved" over hundreds of years. We learned how to build better homes, built sewer systems or wells, store our food better, better medicine, and so much more... I know this is off topic kind of but back then, they had to walk a mile in a blizzard for water, milk the cows for milk, had spaces and holes all over their homes and more.

 

This post Terri has brought up a lot of interesting information, opinions and is very educational to say the least.

 

We really are weak being, but we have a tendency to control even the strongest beast.

I don't even know what to say to all this other than I should've known. I don't regret this conversation though, it has truly solidified one thing I've flip-flopped about in mind: Budgies shouldn't be bred, period. I don't want to start another debate, it's a personal opinion and purely that. I know most will disagree but if these are the attitudes of breeders, this is my opinion.

 

As hard as it will be, no more of my birds will be coming from pet stores OR breeders.

I've lost many people in my life to cancer. Not birds, but people. I'm not going to say people who have cancer shouldn't "breed" as it's apples and oranges. People have free will to do whatever they please.

 

If you were referring to what I said, I didn't mean it like that. I meant that anyone can have a baby "breed" no matter what. Kids get starved, abused, etc. I wasn't saying anyting about people with cancer etc.

I can go to the humaine society to adopt a kitten, but if my child it too young, they will deny me (it happened) But anyone can bring home a baby.

They will never come out with a cure for cancer, there is too much $$$ to be made in pharmesudicals (sp?)

Look at all the advaces UK has made, but Bush wont let any of it here.

I just dont see a lot of breeders doing anything to help, they are in it for the $$$ only. No I am not saying all breeders are like this, but I have a feeling more are than are not.

 

good points all are making

Edited April 7, 200619 yr by Thirtyfive Black

I don't even know what to say to all this other than I should've known. I don't regret this conversation though, it has truly solidified one thing I've flip-flopped about in mind: Budgies shouldn't be bred, period. I don't want to start another debate, it's a personal opinion and purely that. I know most will disagree but if these are the attitudes of breeders, this is my opinion.

 

As hard as it will be, no more of my birds will be coming from pet stores OR breeders.

 

Quote....Budgies shouldn't be bred, period.

Well, if that were to happen, there's another species wiped out in one foul swoop.

Terri, I understand what you were proposing in your original post. There's nothing wrong with wanting an open communication between the breeder and the people who end up with their babies. I am very sorry about what you are going through with Pippin and I think that it is unfortunate that you can't let his breeder know what is happening. I'm sure that it would be difficult to impossible to get in touch with them through the store where bought him, but it may be worth inquiring (or at to let someone at the store know what's going on with him) Would his breeder want to stop his parents from breeding again if they knew what he was suffering at such a young age? I really don't know. It would be great it they would (or even knew who his parents were)

They wouldn't be wiped out, they do very well in the wild on their own. And this is just my opinion, I really don't expect anyone to agree. I guess I'm just thinking out loud.

(Laughing out loud) @ terri

 

you always get everyone up on their toes, (Laughing out loud)

***huggs***

 

I think its good to think outloud

Edited April 7, 200619 yr by Thirtyfive Black