I am so irate right now because of the number of dangerous products that are allowed to be put out on the market for our pets. What's worse is that there are alternatives. There are ways to make these things safe but no one bothers. We really have to stop accepting this irresponsibility and we need to refuse to give our money to companies who aren't responsible enough to make safe products.

 

Anyway, the latest thing I've learned is that cement and calcium perches can kill your bird. It's not the perch itself, really. But the rod on the inside. Apparently, instead of using something safe like stainless steel, they use a rod that has zinc and lead inside (both very poisonous to birds).

 

 

You can see the rod in the middle, that's the part that is dangerous. I'm not risking it with my birds, I'm never using a cement or calcium perch unless I know for a fact that it is on a stainless steel rod. I've heard too many stories of people losing their birds to lead or other metal poisoning. (Here is one story from the person who brought this to our attention in another group. Thankfully, her birds survived.)

 

On top of that, I'm beginning to doubt that those perches even do much for manicuring a bird's nails. My budgies had one for a while and when I took it out, it made no difference in their nails at all. My cockatiels had one recently and it also made little difference in their nails. Some birds' nails grow faster than others it seems. Pixel and Pika need occasional trims with or without the cement perch. (Weird how they do everything together now, including grow out their nails. )

 

Even if it is helpful in that respect, I'd rather do the occasional nail trim than risk my birds dying of metal poisoning.

 

Unless you can confirm that nothing dangerous is included in your calcium or cement perches, I suggest you throw them out as well.

First thank you for this information, what is interesting is I was reading about a tiels story on a different site today, doing some research and I read how he had seizures every 20 minutes, took him to the avian vet and it was metal poisoning. This bird was in the hospital for 7 days. And he accidently got it from chewing on a piece of metal by her stereo system. Ending the story was the precaution about zinc and lead.

 

In fact lead is toxic to us, that is why our children are sometimes tested for lead poisoning and it was taken out of paints.

 

Terri, how can we confirm what the inside of the calcium perch is made of? Does it say it on the wrapping or calling the company?

 

by the way, the link works but brings up an error page to that particular website.

Edited January 10, 200619 yr by lovey

Terri, doesn't let you view the article.

I think contacting the company is usually the only option. On the cement perches I've seen, I've never seen any information about what the rod is made up of. It may be different depending on the manufacturer but unless it clearly states stainless steel on the package, I'd contact the company.

 

I know of a girl whose budgie died suddenly (seizures and everything as you mentioned). A necropsy revealed lead poisoning but I don't think she ever figured out what the budgie had ingested that contained lead. Thankfully, her grey and her other budgie tested negative for traces of lead.

 

Ah, they friendslocked the entry. I'll see what I can do.

 

**Edit**

Here's the text from her post:

 

My two birds with lead poisoning made it, but they are not the same. They both had Calcium and cuttlebone chew perches in their cages (and had for over a year) One is a Blue Fronted amazon hen, who was at the time sitting on a clutch of four fertile eggs. She went "down" Sunday when I looked into her box. The other was a Double yellow headed amazon and he went "down" Tuesday morning before I went for work. At this point I was panicking. I thought it was contagious. Two birds, still waiting on bloodwork back from the first, my first thought was "OMG, I'm going to loose them all!" but I looked for similiarites as well. They had three things in common-- the aforementioned perch, the boing toy from windycity parrot filled with wood, and their water bottles-- Lixit s/s.

 

 

2005-08-22 12:04:00

well... Ethel update.

 

 

shes home and the doc that I usually go with in in cali-- hes called in meds for me and syringes at the local sams club. I would perfer to keep her home for the following reason: I've worked in the back room of the other vets office. I would never trust a SICK animal there because they can't adequately monitor it.

 

If shes home we have people to watch her. Lets face it my mom does next ot nothing all day long.

 

Regular DVM thinks its one of two things (1) yolk stroke (which means she will NEVER be a breeder again and if she has it will have seriously complications if she thinks shes gonna have another clutch...) or (2) Lead Poisoning. Lead poisoning! WTF, there are no new toys (I've refilled the wood on them) or anything else thats been changed in that cage. If its lead posisoning... arg.

 

I'll say this: 4 hours of sleep + getting up early + being late for work due to an accident (that I passed not involved in)... +headache

 

I'm surprised I haven't snapped yet.

 

seriously.

 

If she makes it through the 24 hours after the first treatments of things shes looking better.... if she doesn't... we've tried.

 

ethylenediaminetetracetate (Ca EDTA) was administered (50 mg/kg, undiluted, IM q12h) for 2–23 consecutive days,

 

http://www.bioone.org/bioone/?request=get-...ue=01&page=0016

 

 

 

2005-08-23 12:01:00

 

 

 

 

 

Entry tags: pet bird

 

got up this morning to handfeed Ethel, and noticed that the Booger (sugar) is sitting in his cage corner very intenly watching whats going on. Sugar is a DYH that LOVES Ethel the BFA. I thought he was just actting cute and lovey to her, but no.

I noticed he wasn't sitting on his feet... they were balled up under him and he was only upright because his beak was on the cage side.

 

*sigh*

 

so for now I'm just trying to rule out similiarlities between them-- and why they are winding up this way.

 

Toys they both share in common (duplicates in both cages, bought at the same time) duplicate cups, anything. And now I'm worried it might be food with everything being in season we've been buying a lot more fresh produce for them.

 

And of course... I'm at work, waiting on updates and the like.

 

sometimes I wish life had a pause button.

 

Amy

 

 

 

2005-08-31 12:09:00

 

Updatey, because I've been a very lazy punk ***.

 

Both Amazons are steadily improving. Ethel is back to perching oh higher perches and climbing around the cage, still not eatting on her own, and still has a head tilt, but doesn't look like **** anymore.

 

Sugar on the other hand, still has grip problems (as in its non-existant at times) but is climbing and sitting on higher perches.

 

They both have gone down in weight from last week-- but since the first weigh in on Sunday They were weighed again this morning, and they haven't lost more weight since Sunday, they have both gained a good 5-10 grams EACH.

 

 

This weekend the journal was noticeably empty. This was for one reason, and no its not the amazons.

 

Dru came in from Kansas. (amongst other things that were happening this weekend)

 

 

---

 

And thats the end of the improvement. Ethel and Fred will NEVER be a pair again because he tries to kill her. So not only have I lost a pair, but their eggs from that clutch as a result of being at the vets office with her for about 6 hours on that sunday, and any potential further babies.

 

Sugar-- well hes limited mobility so he has a small cage to live in where he can't fall far, plenty of toys and plenty of time out. It hurts like *** too look at them and know they were once normal and because the pet industry is unregulated there is most likely nothing I can do.

 

oh and its the perch. I had it test, the perch calcium/cuttlebone itself had over 14 ppm lead in it.

Edited January 10, 200619 yr by eterri

I think this is a good tip for the tip section that is going to be pinned up too Terri. I didn't know about this until I was reading today.

I had no clue until recently, myself. I'm always paranoid about metal objects around the birds though. You have to be paranoid to own birds, it seems. Companies refuse to do the thinking for us!

Me neither and all my budgies have 2 perches each. I cant take them out tonight as Ive nothing to replace them with but I guess I'll go get some more natural wood perches for Miss Tobi to rip the bark off!

 

For Feathered Pets: I got the strawberry one from your store - do you know if this is one thats applicable?

well unfortuntely that is not just only in the bird world but all pets in general along with human products. It is all about making money and we need to educate ourselves to protect our families and pets.

Very eye-opening. I wonder if the heavy metals leach into the cement/calcium covering or if the problem occurs when the rod is exposed and then gets chewed on. I have both types of perches in my cages. But they are replaced before they are chewed down to the rod because you can only wash them so many times before they disintegrate. What do you think?

That's true. Funny it was never obvious to me until I got birds. I know more about general health and safety and nutrition now than I did a year ago, that's for sure.

Better than any highly expensive courses birds eh hehe!

Very eye-opening. I wonder if the heavy metals leach into the cement/calcium covering or if the problem occurs when the rod is exposed and then gets chewed on. I have both types of perches in my cages. But they are replaced before they are chewed down to the rod because you can only wash them so many times before they disintegrate. What do you think?

From this line of her post it sounds like the perch itself had traces of lead in it:

oh and its the perch. I had it test, the perch calcium/cuttlebone itself had over 14 ppm lead in it.

I would be most worried if it was chewed down to the rod but it seems unsafe to use at all if even the perch can have traces of the metals in it.

 

lovey has found two very good articles concerning heavy metal poisoning. Definitely must-reads for all bird owners!

http://www.multiscope.com/hotspot/metals.htm

http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww14eiii.htm

Edited January 10, 200619 yr by eterri

Oh thats scary I will have to get new perches tomorrow as Ive had my a while and they all chew on them.

How scary is that? I haven't bought any yet (thankfully), but had every intention of getting some for my birds. I wonder if we could find out how to make them ourselves? But, can I say, I find it difficult to believe that cement is healthy for them anyway, assuming that it really does contain cement

Yeah. I've honestly had my doubts about whether or not they even work for keeping nails trim. They seem to make no difference in my birds but others might have other experiences. Their only purpose really is to trim the nails. Cuttlebone can replace the calcium perches. It's not good to have more than one or to have them high up anyway as they're not very comfy for the birdie's feet.

My budgies dont eat the cuttlefish but they do the calcium perches. I only have one high up and Candy is the only one who really sits on it to sing (his singing perch) suppose he will be able to sing to me on wood though hehe.

My birds are scheduled in a few weeks for their annual exam with a new vet. I will definitely ask about this and see what information I can get. I use them for two reasons - one a different perching texture and two because they like to nibble them and the calcium is good for them. If I were to stop using them, I wonder what to use in their place? I don't want to add anything to their water, and since they eat pellets that could cause an overdose. And it is not only the cement perches - I just looked and all the wooden/manzanita/cholla perches I attach use that type of rod inside. What about the perches?

Arghh hope they dont because all my other perches are those wooden ones.

 

How do you get all your 10 birdies to the vets Anne to you take them altogether?

I use a cuttlebone in the cages for calcium. Sometimes they chew it, sometimes they don't. They seem to be doing well though and don't show any signs of a deficiency. I think if your birds get a varied diet, it should be fine. It seems like they know when they need the cuttlebone.

 

I was just thinking about the rods inside of wooden perches as well. I've got one in particular that has been chewed down quite a bit and I'm not sure what that rod is made of. Very frustrating.

 

How insane is it to take ten budgies to the vet? How much tylenol is required afterward??

 

You all make me giggle.

 

How insane is it to take ten budgies to the vet? How much tylenol is required afterward??

 

How insane is it to have 10 budgies to begin with??

 

Taking 10 birds to the vet is not as bad as you might think. I use Rainbow's old cage and add a few dowel perches. I put in some dry food, along with baby spinach leaves and carrots for them to use as a water source. Then I start with them all in their regular cages, and one by one catch them and move them to the travel cage. It makes them grumpy, but I bring millet to the vets too. It is a bit cramped (the cage is 14" x 22" at the base) but once they are all in and put in the car they are okay. They aren't in it all that long. I don't have much trouble at the vets, I guess because they are nervous about being in a new place so are very good. I am familiar, and I have millet. I will just need to be extra careful during the exams because they are flighted. My old vet's exam rooms were small with normal height ceilings and nowhere really to land but the cagetop, but I've visited the new one and the exam rooms are much larger, with certifications hung on the wall up high - perches for wayward birds I guess. I will let you all know how it goes.

Having ten birds isn't insane! (I'm saying this in case it happens to me someday...I'm only four behind you so far.)

 

That does sound a lot easier than you'd think. I imagine the harder part is getting them each out to examine and yeah...the higher ceilings might make this vet trip a little more interesting. :(Laughing out loud): I wish you the very best of luck!

Actually, getting them out isn't all that bad, because they don't have as much room to run. Since I have two "travel cages" I thought about taking both of them so as the birds are examined they can be put back into an empty cage so they aren't stressed as the other ones are caught. What do you think of that idea? Also, back to your original topic - I was just thinking about the wooden perches having those rods in them. You know how they also have the round metal things (mind block - I can't remember what they're called) with the wing nuts to attach them with? Do you think the metal things contain zinc or lead? The birds have access to those all the time, although I'm pretty sure they ignore them. What if they don't? Also, mine will sometimes hang on the outside of the cage and play with the wing nuts...

Edited January 10, 200619 yr by Rainbow

Yeah, I think taking a spare cage would be a really good idea! Seems like it would be much easier than putting the bird back in the original cage and then fishing out another.

 

I don't know why, but I've always assumed those little wing nut thingies were stainless steel. That's definitely something to look into. My birds seem to ignore them too but Pixel also ignored the guillotine doors until the night she managed to get one trapped on her neck.

Oh. I only just got Blinkie one too and he loves sitting on it and nibbling. Then i thought, well i'll go get him a screw on natural branch to replace it but what's the point if that's got the same thing?

It might not be the same thing. You'll have to do a little research I guess. Find out what companies use what and only buy the stuff that uses stainless steel or nickel plated. That's my plan for now, at least.