Hi all

I was just wondering all of your opinions on the new 6 classes that will be coming into the nationals if the movement is passed at the next ANBC meeting (April 7th)

 

At our club meetin last night we had a very.....heated discussion, with a few people getting quite angered. This was the first that we have heard about it.

I think we have been kept in the dark a bit, as it took them 6 months to create a group to decide what to do, a further 3 months to come up with it, and then they give us 3 weeks to make our decision if we would like our delegates to vote in what way. I personally am STRONGLY against it, (not that it affects me much) but I was just wondering all your opinions on it.

Edited March 23, 201114 yr by **KAZ**

What 6 classes, i know the violet class is meant to be coming in soon as we here in Victoria have been trialling it for 3 or 4 years now at our shields, It has been a scoring class for 2 years now us still not at the Nationals. I believe that we Victoria try and test things before other states. this is what I have heard and I could be wrong. BUT i have now heard of 6 NEW classes.

I know this year and next year they are trialling the the 3 birds that go to the Nationals to been shown as normally the 3 bird stays behind the scene and not seen.

In 2013 they will be dividing numerous classes up. ie. green will be divided into light green and dark factor green (same with skyblue and dark factor blue) , cinnamon will be divided into cinnamon blue and cinnamon green, spangle will be divided into normal spangle and spangle AOSV (same with opaline), a violet class added, and a "suffused" class will be added. This will be trialled over 2013 and 2014. There will only be two birds a class with no 3rd bird (I think)

My opinion.

I think it would be great for our hobby.

Especially the rarer varietys as more breeders are incline to breed them for show in return we pick up numbers for these rarer colours in our hobby and more people can enjoy them.

what will be gained with dividing the colours and dark factors into groups?

I can see the point of the two spangle groups .

i thought they were adding golden face as a trial also in df i think

i personally hope they do

im not sure about what your saying but i know suffused is meant to be added if no one complains

and the violet which heaps wanted

as far as devising colours up

well it will give more people a chance i guess as some specialize in the one factor only

i know quiet a few whom breed light green only and are known for their deep good all over colour

 

all i can say is

as splat said they are going to do the three bird thing so i have heard the correct information was in the last budgie news we all got it had a questionnaire in it that they asked you to respond to or forever hold your peace

i just tossed it out as i could not understand it but im happy to hold my peace

I thought suffused or dilute is already a National class or maybe it is a class of our shield and is to go into the Nationals soon.

My opinion:

 

Dark Factor: A separate class for Dark Factor Greens and Blues is WELL overdue. The Dark Factor was one of the earliest varieties recognised and yet no separate class exists for it. Exhibition progress of a variety is often directly linked to the offering of a National class and I think we really need the Dark factor classes for these beautiful birds.

 

Violet: One of the most striking of varieties, it also deserves it's own class. The main problem I forsee here is the debate on whether a bird is carrying the Violet factor or is simply a well marked Dark Factor. The introduction of this class is sure to create "debate" at State and national level.

 

Cinnamon Green and Blue classes: Along with the Opaline variety, the Cinnamon is one of the most popular. Given this, I'm not sure why if class separation is required that there is no separation of the Opaline class into Green and Blue.

 

Spangle normal and AOV: Being the next most common variety I can see why class separation is sought here. But could this be a reason to have a shift in markings emphasis between the 2 classes given the difficulty in breeding well marked Spangle Opalines/Cinnamons etc?

 

Suffused: Prefer to leave this one to RIP for comment ;-)

Edited March 23, 201114 yr by **KAZ**
typo

The proposal is for 7 new classes

• Split Normal Green into Normal Light Green and Normal Dark & Olive Green
• Split Normal Blue into Normal Sky, Normal Violet and Normal Blue AOC
• Divide Cinnamonwing into green series and blue series
• Divide Yellow Faced Blue into English Yellow Faced Blue and Australian Yellow Faced Blue
• Divide Spangle into Spangle Normal and Spangle AOSV
• Create a new class for Suffused Yellow and White

This was discussed at our club committee meeting last, generally agreed as a good idea.

The biggest concern was regarding the Australian Yellow Faced Blue, given it is not mentioned in The Standard

Edited March 23, 201114 yr by Carlisle

Lets just say,that,this excise with the classes,is causing a lot of problems,

in the show ranks & it is not all good.There is a lot of not happy breeders/showers.The vote could be very interesting.

My opinion.

 

Suffused class (dilutes) - long overdue.

Violets - also long overdue.

Splitting yellowfaces a good idea to support the beautiful goldenface varitiey but standard will need revision (have fun those involved with THAT!!!!)

The other stuff might be a good idea in relative terms but seems a little over the top as an all in one move considering the pressures already on smaller zones to hold an event such as the Nats.

 

As far a being involved in organising a National event in the past - bags not doing it when all these new classes are brought into play. As it was we really struggled to find a venue that was a) big enough and was happy to have livestock. Also the larger outlay for show cage and holding cage production is really going to hurt smaller zones.

 

Edit: Stupid emoticons.... thats supposed to be a b!

Edited March 23, 201114 yr by nubbly5

I am truly against most of the classes. I mean, Suffused is just ridiculous. How many people actually breed "Suffused" birds. There is no set standard for it, and no one breeds them as a mutation. It may also further bring the standard of the BES down if unexperienced new members breed the two birds together. MHO anyway.

Why divide cinnamons only....What about all the other varieties...

Suffused is just ridiculous. How many people actually breed "Suffused" birds. There is no set standard for it, and no one breeds them as a mutation.

 

this opinion about suffused shows very little actual insight into the mutation and the fact that there are breeders of suffused.

I breed them and welcome this addition

 

]

 

http://www.bcv.asn.au/Confusion.htm

 

I do not see, however a real need to further divide the cinnamon class into two colours. There is a real appeal to the eye in the difference between a cinnamon blue and a cinnamon green however, but this also applies to the same look of a greywing blue and a greywing green. Where will it end ?

 

There will be a lot of arguing back and forth as would come with the one eyed budgie breeding fraternity. We all have strong opinions. So many people dont like seeing opaline in spangles etc so many are against diffused etc

TOO MANY just dont like CHANGE.

Edited March 23, 201114 yr by **KAZ**

i say bring it on

if anything is stupid it was the changing of the cage fronts and perches to 16m

as if the costs of maintaining our studs isn't enough

now everyone needs to re do all their cages as well

that to me is way more anoying and un needed

as to be honest they will only chip and the birds will chew it of (the powder coating i mean) and people will be paying sh it loads to get them resprayed

thats more a subject that needs revising and should of been put out their for all members of all clubs over Australia to vote on

 

and as far as golden face is concerned i say here here its about time but yes i agree with nubbly 5 hee hee have fun with that standard

 

I am truly against most of the classes. I mean, Suffused is just ridiculous. How many people actually breed "Suffused" birds. There is no set standard for it, and no one breeds them as a mutation. It may also further bring the standard of the BES down if unexperienced new members breed the two birds together. MHO anyway.

also can i ask you please squeak what gives you such a bad opinion on a variety thats for starters in the rare association and what makes you think that it will affect the black eyed

people are breeding rec pied to dom makeing doms very hard to get with perfict marks

also fellow to cinnamon grrrrrrrr

as with tex clears and cin and spangle a real head ach

and i dont see the diffrents

if a beginner does it or a champion breeder does ??? as dont tell me it doesnt happen

a good example is a lacewing split clear-body cock you know what ahead ach that is grrrrrrrrrrrrr

Well I bought my lutino cock for my clearbodies to find that he is split greywing, how annoying is that.

Hey squeak I think suffused are a lovely breed.

As for violets we already have them at our shield and the classes are getting bigger every year.

I have to admit that I would welcome AOSV Spangle because I tend to get opaline spangles a lot and the judges do not like them. They should add cinnamon spangles too as another class. lol

 

also can i ask you please squeak what gives you such a bad opinion on a variety thats for starters in the rare association and what makes you think that it will affect the black eyed

people are breeding rec pied to dom makeing doms very hard to get with perfict marks

also fellow to cinnamon grrrrrrrr

as with tex clears and cin and spangle a real head ach

and i dont see the diffrents

if a beginner does it or a champion breeder does ??? as dont tell me it doesnt happen

a good example is a lacewing split clear-body cock you know what ahead ach that is grrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

From my understanding during our discussion, A suffused bird is a poorly marked BES. Out fo our club of 50+ people, plus the toher club in Adelaide, not one person bred suffused. They do have suffused birds, but they don't purposley breed them. There is not set standard for a suffused bird. How can you breed a birds colour to perfection, if there is no explanation of what colour the bird is ment to be? How can they judge a bird on markings? My veiw is that two people could see a suffused and a BES, and breed the two together, thinking they are breeding the same mutation. I agree with you completley GB on the fallow to cinnamon, and TCB's to cinnamon's etc. It is bringing the birds down. This will just add another headache to the other headache's! Also, I think the 16mm perch is going to be changing back? As with the new powder coated cage fronts....OFF TOPIC though

 

Well I bought my lutino cock for my clearbodies to find that he is split greywing, how annoying is that.

Hey squeak I think suffused are a lovely breed.

As for violets we already have them at our shield and the classes are getting bigger every year.

I have to admit that I would welcome AOSV Spangle because I tend to get opaline spangles a lot and the judges do not like them. They should add cinnamon spangles too as another class. lol

 

Hey, I think suffused are gorgeous Just not for the show bench. The odd one that pops up I sometimes keep for my pet types.

I have them here Squeak and am having a go at breeding them, most breeders use them for their greywings. This year I am putting suffused to suffused and see what happens. I have bred a few splits last year.

. This year I am putting suffused to suffused and see what happens.

Me too

 

also can i ask you please squeak what gives you such a bad opinion on a variety thats for starters in the rare association and what makes you think that it will affect the black eyed

people are breeding rec pied to dom makeing doms very hard to get with perfict marks

also fellow to cinnamon grrrrrrrr

as with tex clears and cin and spangle a real head ach

and i dont see the diffrents

if a beginner does it or a champion breeder does ??? as dont tell me it doesnt happen

a good example is a lacewing split clear-body cock you know what ahead ach that is grrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

From my understanding during our discussion, A suffused bird is a poorly marked BES. Out fo our club of 50+ people, plus the toher club in Adelaide, not one person bred suffused. They do have suffused birds, but they don't purposley breed them. There is not set standard for a suffused bird. How can you breed a birds colour to perfection, if there is no explanation of what colour the bird is ment to be? How can they judge a bird on markings? My veiw is that two people could see a suffused and a BES, and breed the two together, thinking they are breeding the same mutation. I agree with you completley GB on the fallow to cinnamon, and TCB's to cinnamon's etc. It is bringing the birds down. This will just add another headache to the other headache's! Also, I think the 16mm perch is going to be changing back? As with the new powder coated cage fronts....OFF TOPIC though

 

Well I bought my lutino cock for my clearbodies to find that he is split greywing, how annoying is that.

Hey squeak I think suffused are a lovely breed.

As for violets we already have them at our shield and the classes are getting bigger every year.

I have to admit that I would welcome AOSV Spangle because I tend to get opaline spangles a lot and the judges do not like them. They should add cinnamon spangles too as another class. lol

 

Hey, I think suffused are gorgeous Just not for the show bench. The odd one that pops up I sometimes keep for my pet types.

 

 

A suffused bird is a poorly marked BES.

this is incorrect or they would not be called suffused and it wouldn't matter if they were breed to a bes if this was true except you would only chance breeding more badly marked bes's

same as with any variety

you do not call a badly marked albino with suffusion a suffuse

or do you call a badly marked df spangle with suffusion a suffuse (although the turm suffused df spangle does get tossed around alot it is simply a term not a variety)

 

 

Out fo our club of 50+ people, plus the toher club in Adelaide, not one person bred suffused. They do have suffused birds, but they don't purposley breed them. There is not set standard for a suffused bird.

 

well this may be so from what they say but i bet you you cant be sure thats true as they are useful birds to have and their for a lot breed them deliberately even if not for showing they breed them for enhancing certain lines they are working on

 

How can you breed a birds colour to perfection, if there is no explanation of what colour the bird is ment to be?

how much more explanatory does the word suffused need to be ???

 

How can they judge a bird on markings?

they would be judging on the amount of suffusion the bird has allover

kaz bird is a good example of a suffused

 

 

My veiw is that two people could see a suffused and a BES, and breed the two together, thinking they are breeding the same mutation.

 

their is no way you can mix a bes and a suffused if you know what the two variety are and if you dont know anything about the varierty you choose to breed for showing

then honestly you have no hope

so i am sorry but i feel you just got lost in everyone's words listened and thought its easier to agree than decide yourself

if you look into the suffused you will find a beautiful variety that i feel is almost lost in its true essence due to exactly what you have just done

you are but how old (this is not a dig ) and if others your age just sat back listened and agreed

any age for that matter but what i guess im truing to express is find out for yourself dont just be another follower in the fancy

explore this beautiful bird before youscrap it as many have

after all if it was not a verierty

then it wouldn't exist

Suffused or dilutes are regularly show at BRASEA shows http://www.budgerigarrare.com/index.html and at any rare budgerigar shows or club meeting. If they cant be judged then how do all judges who attend these show judge them ? and they do judge them.

Just because someone may not have full knowledge of this variety, or maybe not be all that interested in them or understand how it all works does not make it a variety that noone breeds, noone cares about or noone wants to learn about.

 

When its all said and done, rare varieties need to be encouraged, bred and promoted or they will fade away.

 

http://bestofbreeds.net/al-nasser/article11.htm

Edited March 23, 201114 yr by **KAZ**

As exhibition Budgerigar breeders, we should be encouraging the breeding and exhibition of ALL the recognised colours and varieties. I was personally disapointed when we changed our show classes in Victoria to match the national as we had seperate classes for light greens and dark greens, sky blues and dark factor blues and each variety was seperated into green and blue classes. It was a good system and served us well for a long time. I guess I'm getting old , but I'm getting sick of changes being made all the time, particularly without proper consultation with the fancy. Cheers Clearwing

As exhibition Budgerigar breeders, we should be encouraging the breeding and exhibition of ALL the recognised colours and varieties. I was personally disapointed when we changed our show classes in Victoria to match the national as we had seperate classes for light greens and dark greens, sky blues and dark factor blues and each variety was seperated into green and blue classes. It was a good system and served us well for a long time. I guess I'm getting old , but I'm getting sick of changes being made all the time, particularly without proper consultation with the fancy. Cheers Clearwing

 

 

I agree with the Amount of changes that we are making not necessarily being a good thing,

In 3 Years we have - Changed the ring issued date, Changed the perch sizes from 12 to 16mm, changed the National show date, 3 birds benched and now they want to add extra classes. Now i dont disagree with some of these changes individually, but collectively its significant. and too much.

 

As for bringing extra classes to the National - i think its being pushed by a small minority of the fancy and isnt something that has just come up in the last 6 months, its being on the radar for a lot longer. As for the consultation part, the BCV conducted a survey into what members wanted with respect to the proposed new classes- and i think i heard that a very small number were recieved back - less that 20.

 

I dont agree with the splitting of the mainstream varieties. And i am happy to leave the Suffused class out at the moment that way i can claim to be unbeaten at the National level with my suffused winning in 2007 and squeak people do try to breed suffused and they are being developed to a reasonably good standard.

 

All this discussion doesnt take away from the difficulty in breeding exhibition budgerigars to a level to be competive at the Nationals.

 

 

I agree with the Amount of changes that we are making not necessarily being a good thing,

In 3 Years we have - Changed the ring issued date, Changed the perch sizes from 12 to 16mm, changed the National show date, 3 birds benched and now they want to add extra classes. Now i dont disagree with some of these changes individually, but collectively its significant. and too much.

 

As for bringing extra classes to the National - i think its being pushed by a small minority of the fancy and isnt something that has just come up in the last 6 months, its being on the radar for a lot longer. As for the consultation part, the BCV conducted a survey into what members wanted with respect to the proposed new classes- and i think i heard that a very small number were recieved back - less that 20.

 

I dont agree with the splitting of the mainstream varieties. And i am happy to leave the Suffused class out at the moment that way i can claim to be unbeaten at the National level with my suffused winning in 2007 and squeak people do try to breed suffused and they are being developed to a reasonably good standard.

 

All this discussion doesnt take away from the difficulty in breeding exhibition budgerigars to a level to be competive at the Nationals.

There may of been only 20 replys back,in alot of cases,the letters were sent as a club.I believe, to show unity.All these changes, has caused alot of problems & caused, disconnection with the National Body.As they are trying to push things through,without trialing them.To most members on here,they would be wondering, what all the fuss is about.But in the show world,it avery hot topic.

Edited March 24, 201114 yr by **KAZ**

i don't show my birds - but i still find this all interesting.