Posted July 22, 201014 yr Well the birds have started on their 45 day Doxy treatment this last weekend. Did a BIG cull and started thinking about pairs for this breeding season. Haven't thought about the big scrub and disinfect yet though........ (not looking forward to that!). So I still have WAY too many varieties and keep thinking about quitting one and came awfully close to getting rid of the fallows but looked at the stock I have left and thought I'd have a concerted go at them again..... sigh. Their future depends on SOME breeding results this year compared with nothing at all last year I'm making an effort to establish (still) a line of normal/normals after the large set back of finding out that the family I had been nurturing for 3 years was indeed split for both cinnamon and opaline (nubbly has a quiet vomit). I'm also planning to put one o my strongest families back into my lacewing line and also pairing for numbers of visual lacewings and trying to keep opaline to a minimum. Luckily last years results gave me quite a lot of lacewings to work with so I'm in a happy place with them at the moment. So here are some of the pairs I have selected so far: NORMALS Normal Dark Green x Normal Light Green Well the cock has 50% chance of being split for cinnamon and opaline but that's as good as I've got now bar one cock, so this is in an effort to carry on breeding normals. The father of this cock was 10th at 2009 Nats. Mother bred a couple of super sized normals to an average dom pied so hoping it's in the mothers side. I'd like to add more feather (from dad) to chicks that this hen throws. If I can achieve that then the results should be nice. Normal Light Green x Normal Grey Green This is the father of the cock above and I have paired him to the sister of Holy Cr*p. She has great style but is a bit narrow. The cock is a terrific bird with good shoulder, great spots and feather. I'd like more length and size overall and I'm hoping those oversized genes that makes Holy Cr*p so big (and his sisters not small either) get some benefit from the cock's style and that the combo nicks together how I hope. Normal Skyblue x Normal Dark Green Now this cock bird is so far as I can tell actually a normal/normal. He was bred from my line of fallows that I am fairly sure does not have any cinnamon or opaline. Now I thought my original normal/normal cock wasn't split either so obviously things can go astray but heres hoping. For being bred from 2 split fallows he is quite a strong bird. He just needs a bit more feather so the hen I have chosen for him (the mother of the dark green above) should help there. She also has better shoulder and blow than him so seems a good match. Normal Dark Green x YF Skyblue Brother to the dark green cock above (so also a son of the dark green hen and the 10th place light green cock) and a nice but flecked yf hen. The cock has a lovely clean cap so not doubling up there and both are strong birds with good feather. Normal Light Green x Normal Light Green This boy is the brother to the 10th place Light Green boy above (and therefore uncle to the dark greens). The hen is one that I used with my 3rd place Nats Lacewing last year. She needs more feather on top but has super shoulder (needs to go on a bit of a diet though!). He just needs a bit more strength so hopefully she can add that. Normal Dark Green x Normal Skyblue Another one of those dark green brothers. A slightly lesser but still useful bird, I have paired him to a strong but untidy skyblue hen. He is a lovely neat bird but with still good feather so again fingers crossed. LACEWINGS Normal Grey x Opaline Yellow Lacewing At first I put this fellow with a normal marked lacewing hen but she just didn't do him the justice he deserved so in the spirit of pairing best to best I ignored the opaline and gave him this hen. She is the daughter of the boy that came 3rd at the 2009 Nats. What can I say... they are both lovely complete, well feathered birds and I'm hoping to get some strong splits from this pairing. Yellow Lacewing x Yellow Lacewing 3rd place lacewing with the best normal winged hen. She doesn't look super in the box here but she is very nice. She also has strong colour and good markings and is actually related to the grey cockbird above (cousins or second cousins I think). I will chase one round from this pair and then repair the cock to a strong normal hen for his next rounds (unless the chicks are immediately spectacular). Normal Light Green/Lacewing x Normal Lacewing These guys are half brother and sister from the cock above. The mother of the cock is the hen in the 5th pair of normals and the mother of the lacewing hen is her sister. Getting complicated isn't it. I think I can safely say that my birds are forming one big stud line. Yellow Lacewing x Yellow Lacewing Breeding for visuals here really just picked this '06 boy the best hen I could for him. Both normal wings and she is a respectable hen with a nice mask and a reasonable bit of feather. This bird bred nicely last year and hopefully will again this year which will most likely be his last year. Normal Skyblue/Lacewing x Normal Green Well I really like this boy but he is really really selective about his girlfriends (he like boyfriends much more) so for the last few months he has been in a flight with only the hens I liked enough to put in with him. Of course he chose the least inspiring of the whole lot but she is still one I was happy enough to put with him so. At least his extreme feather and blow will hopefully add to her width but lack of anything on top. Maybe if we are lucky we might score some lacewing hens from this pairing. Dammit missed one lacewing pair....... coming soon Opaline Yellow Lacewing x Yellow Lacewing. PAIRINGS FOR VISUAL QUALITIES (or some other crazy hairbrained ideas I get sometimes) Skyblue Spangle x Cinnamon Opaline Dilute Dominant Pied Strange combination you say....... well okay maybe I agree with you but Titan here (the skyblue spangle) is a lovely bird, just lacking in mask length (surprising considering his breeding) and the hen is a lovely girl that I thought i could use in my clearwings until I discovered that she was not only opaline but also cinnamon to boot >>:|. Still they are both beauties and should combine well knowing their backgrounds AND somewhere down the track I'd LOVE to see some blue dom pieds........ Dilute Dominant Pied x Normal Grey Again I bought this bird for use in my clearwings but alas he is opaline so I'm not going down the track of trying to weed opaline out of them but putting him in but he is a super cock and I have paired him with the mother of Holy Sh*t and Holy Cr*p so we'll just have to see what happens. Again I'd LOVE some blue dom pieds........ CLEARWINGS Normal Cobalt x Violet Clearwing A really nice cock, brother to Titan but who dropped his some flights and didn't regrow them . I've put him with a nice violet clearwing hen to breed some splits and maybe even add some violet factor into some other birds. Olive Clearwing x Dark Green Clearwing Trying to maintain and hopefully slightly improve my clear winged family. The cock is one that came 1tth in the 2008 Nat but he is small although has exceptional wing clarity. The hen has lovely style with still good wing clarity. Dark Green Clearwing x Violet Clearwing This fellow is massive but is long flighted. I've paired him to a very neat winged violet hen who again has good wing clarity. He is not bad but has come from a very dark winged father so I'm trying to achieve 2 things here - get rid of the long flights/tail and keep some wing clarity. Olive Clearwing x Olive Clearwing This gorgeous cockbird I bought from Linn Pitticks (RIP) clearance auction as a UBC. He bred magnificently for me last year and fulfilled the promise he showed when I bought him as a baby boy (his daughter is the dark green clearwing in the second clearwing pairing). This year I'm hoping to use him over 2 different hens. First this little girl with exceptional wing clarity to again try and bolster my clearwinged family. Althoug his wings are not the cleanest he has bred some really nice young stock with some good wing clarity in there amongst them. I'll change him over to a bigger but slightly more heavily marked hen later in the season. Dilute x Violet Clearwing I have no idea what this cock bird is split for or even if he is cinnamon himself (might be) but I'll find out after this pairing I hope. The hen is another daughter of Linn Pittick's cock above and is quite stylish and not too heavily marked. Fingers crossed. BLACKEYED SELFS This guy is awsome for a blackeyed self. He is huge and has reasonable feather. He is also a terrible flirt and couldn't help nut chat up his intended girl friend so he didn't really show himself off to the camera well (too busy showing off to the girl!!!!). I've paired him to a hen with great colour. Well that's all for now folks. 1 more lacewing pair to come. Plus some fallow pairings and maybe one more BES pairing. Stay tuned. Edited September 5, 201113 yr by **KAZ**
July 22, 201014 yr Awesome thread Nubbly5. I love how you've explained your reasons for pairings. Looking forward to seeing outcomes.
July 22, 201014 yr What's the ping pong balls for in the bottem never seen this before? Its a trick used for show cage training. The balls make it difficult to perch or find grounding so the birds learn to stay on the perches instead. Plenty of debate over its use and practicality from the show breeders i've talked - everyone likes to think their way is the best lol. Aside from that - some superb birds nubbly. Especially chuffed with some of your cocks. Seems like everytime I move up in quality I see someone with birds that I have a look I wish I had lol. Nevermind, im going to make do with the birds I've got now and have a superb breeding season, just you wait I think you will have a great season too going by those pairs. Fingers crossed for fertility How do you administer the doxy? Is it liquid/powder? Added to the water?
July 22, 201014 yr Wow, you sure have got some stunners there! I don't see how you can juggle so many varities I can't wait to see some fallows! I love the Normal Skyblue/Lacewing! He is lovely
July 22, 201014 yr This is going to an interesting thread Nubbly. It's great what you have explained. Lovely birds too. Will be keeping an eye on this thread to see how babies turn out Good luck.
July 23, 201014 yr Another good thread. If the Sky/LW cock disappears in the next week, don't bother looking for me; we'll be in a hideaway deep in the Amazon jungle!
July 23, 201014 yr Author What's the ping pong balls for in the bottem never seen this before? Its a trick used for show cage training. The balls make it difficult to perch or find grounding so the birds learn to stay on the perches instead. Plenty of debate over its use and practicality from the show breeders i've talked - everyone likes to think their way is the best lol. Aside from that - some superb birds nubbly. Especially chuffed with some of your cocks. Seems like everytime I move up in quality I see someone with birds that I have a look I wish I had lol. Nevermind, im going to make do with the birds I've got now and have a superb breeding season, just you wait I think you will have a great season too going by those pairs. Fingers crossed for fertility How do you administer the doxy? Is it liquid/powder? Added to the water? In the water! As a powder.... "Psittavet" from Vetafarm. But you need a vet script. Edited July 23, 201014 yr by nubbly5
July 23, 201014 yr Nice birds and I look forward to the outcome of these pairs As a novice it's great to have someone explain why they paired certain birds together. How many pairs will you put down this spring?
July 23, 201014 yr Author I have 24 cabinets and fill them all at the same time so that if eggs or chickies need swapping around then everyone is at about the same stage. okay got my final pairs sorted now as well. LACEWINGS That lacewing pair I forgot to get a picture of..... Yellow Opaline Lacewing x Yellow Lacewing This boy is a full brother to the bird that got 3rd at 2009 Nats. He has astonishingly beautiful deep yellow colour. I have chose a normal winged hen for him to try and steer away from opaline as he has that 'orrible thumb print that opaline lacewings often get. This is one of my last tier lacewing pairs but they are both still strong birds so should be reasonable for producing more visuals. FALLOWS Green Normal Fallow x Opaline Dark Green/Fallow The best pairing I could find...... sigh. This is a brother to sister pairing with the boy that can 6th at 2009 Nats to his dark green opaline split sister. This cock didn't breed for me last year but his condition this year is lovely so here's hoping the extra year maturity has helped him. Normal Grey/Cinnamon/Fallow (urk) x Normal Green Fallow Why oh why do people insist on putting cinnamon into Fallows. The I have to spend generations trying to get the damn thing out again sigh. Due to very limited numbers I has chosen to use this boy but with an '06 hen. She is in great condition and worth trying so if things don't work out at least it was with the /cinnamon..... If they do breed well here's hoping that there are not too many cinnamon fallows (which look just about identical to lacewings just to make things really confusing!). DAMMIT forgot to snap a picture of my last fallow pair. A light green/fallow brother to the Opaline Dark Green hen above to an unrelated green fallow hen. Will get last picture soon. LAST BUT NOT LEAST - VISUAL PAIRING Last but not least I'm going to try Holy Cr*p this year to a young hen and see how they go. They are both in really nice condition and Holy Cr*p is chatting up everyone in the flight so it's worth a try in my opinion. I LOOOOOOOVE both of these birds but for completely different reasons. Holy Cr*p is HUGE and has a really swanky stance but has a bit of a wobbly backline and when he pulls his face in is a bit narrow over the top of the cere. He has direction feather but I want it longer. The hen has that wonderful long directional feather is also a big bird but doesn't quite have the same swank as Holy Cr*p. I've actually been wanting to use these two together since they left the nest so I'm a bit excited that I might get the chance! I also have 2 other hens that I'll try and use over this season but not sure whom with at this stage. The grey green bred some beautiful babies last year including the normal grey that I'm putting back into my lacewing line. The grey I purchased from our local written auction (a Carl Alder bird) she is heavily flecked (the reason Carl quit her I assume) but is just too nice not to use only just a slightly shortish mask and that flecking of course will make me a bit careful on who I choose for her. Edited July 23, 201014 yr by nubbly5
July 23, 201014 yr again a wonderful full description of your birds and their features and uses thank you nubbly also nice to see your breeding me some good culls lol :rofl: :rofl: cant wait for my new either lacewings or split lacewings lol mabe a grey or two m what else no really on a serious note you have some great pairs inarticulately the sister of holy **** and the dark green i like that pairing and the grey / lacewing and lacewing hen good luck with your breeding hun all the best
August 21, 201014 yr Author All cabinets scrubbed, disinfected and surface sprayed today. Just need to finish cleaning and disinfecting seed and water containers and my breeding room is just about ready to go again for another year. Picked up 2 fallows and a split plus a cobalt opaline spangle from the latest BRASEA auction. Thankyou Daryl! Also picked up a couple of lovely grey green cocks from Mark Chidel that I'll use as out crosses for my lacewing and normals. Thank you Mark! But it'll mean a bit of rejigging of my pairings. Thinking of putting the cobalt opaline spangle with one of the Chidel cocks and putting the other Chidel cock with as nice a lacewing hen as I can find for him. I think that means I have to go backwards one standard of hen for all my other lace pairings. Will post pics of final pairings as they happen!
August 23, 201014 yr Author Comes in waves! Right at the moment I'm not raring to do anything but as I get more energetic yes
August 23, 201014 yr I really like the way you narrate your topics with extra info on the birds and your reasons for pairing them and what you hope to get from the pairings
August 29, 201014 yr Author Well all my pairs are now down. Not everything is the same as the pairs I had posted earlier for a few different reasons.... some of the cock birds were not in condition, I changed my mind on one of the lacewing pairings which meant a bit of a jig around for the others AND I bought a couple of birds at auction, one of which I popped into the breeding program as she was screaming to go down and she is too good not to use asap. So here are the final pairs! They are in order of the cabinets that they are in so i can more easily report the chickies according to the parents. Pair 1: Lacewing x Lacewing - My lovely 3rd place Nats lacewing boy but I changed the hen for this pairing. I was just not 100% happy with the width across the cere of the first hen, she was too narrow so he gets a nicer girlfriend. Pair 2: Normal Grey x Opaline Lacewing - This is the same as original pairing with a ripper opaline lacewing hen (the best lacewing hen I bred in 2009/2010) to a wonderful balanced normal grey from my very best normal family. Pair 3: Normal Skyblue/Lacewing x Normal Light Green - Same pairing as before. Split lacewing cock bird who I let choose from a selection of hens as he is so picky and prefers boys. Pair 4: Lacewing x Opaline Grey Green - I was initially going to use this lacewing boy over another lacewing girl but this opaline hen (the mother of the grey cock bird above) is soooo strong and I really wanted to make use of her in my lacewing breeding. Pity about the opaline but a strong bird is a strong bird opaline or not. I am thinking of swapping her over to the 3rd place boy for the later rounds as I think the combination would be super but i want a few visuals from him first. Pair 5: Normal Light Green x Lacewing - Borther of this cock came 10th light green at Nats and they are related to holy cr@p and holy sh*t so it was always my intention to use this family back into my lacewings so here goes. Pair 6: BES x BES - Super BES cock who is winning all his colour classes. He has great colour and is a big bird compared to the normal BES offerings. The hen I've chosen for him has magnificent colour and is not too tiny but needs more feather - a BES failing generally. Pair 7: Normal Light Green x Cobalt Opaline Spangle - well I'm a bit excited about this pairing. I purchased this hen at a recent BRASEA Auction (well Daryl chose it for me), her father came 6th at 2007 Nats in Spangle Class and her mother is half sister to 2010 Nats Opaline winner so she has some tremendous breeding behind her. The cock bird came 10th at 2008 Nats in Green class and is related to Holy Sh*t and Holy Cr@p so I'm hoping these birds nick well together and produce something special. Pair 8: Dark Green Opaline Spangle x Normal Dark Green - The cock bird is from C&B Gearings Nats winning grey line and has bred some solid chick for me in the past. He hen is the mother of all my nice 2009/2010 dark green chicks. Both good solid birds and dark factored - maybe some nice olives?????? Here's hoping. Pair 9: Normal Dark Green x Normal Light Green - Cock is the son of the above dark green hen. The hen although looking a bit dumpy here bred some fabulous normal greens and pieds to a Jan McMahon Dommie last season so I'm giving her a bash in the normal x normal program. She is actually a half sister of the hen above. Pair 10: Grey Green Cinnamon Spangle x Opaline Grey - Couldn't not use this hen. I bought her from our written auction last year and she has been catching my eye ever since. The cock I've chosen for her is a Gary Gazzard line bird from a pure GG SW syndicate bird I got in 2006. He bred my many really nice feathered birds over the last couple of years and this is one of his best grandsons. Pair 11: Normal Dark Green x YF Skyblue - Cock is the son of the above dark green hen and brother to the dark green cock above. This is a pair of young birds but I'm hoping they fire to produce some dark factor green/yf or dark factor yf birds. Again both are good solid birds with nice feather. Pair 12: Skyblue Spangle x Cinnamon Opaline Dilute Dominant Pied - Titan and a really nice dilute dommie pied of Jan McMahons. I really would like some blue dommies....... yep okay breeding for colour but they are also both great birds and the hen produced some really nice chicks last season. Edited August 29, 201014 yr by nubbly5
August 29, 201014 yr The pairs look great Nubbly should get some nice babies, good luck with your breeding
August 29, 201014 yr Author Oh what a sh*t fight trying to get this post formatted properly....... (BIG sigh)...... Pair 13: Normal Dilute x Violet Clearwing - Lets see what this dilute is split for. My guess is cinnamon AND opaline so I guess I'm only going to be able to use the normal hens in my clearwing program but we'll wait and see. Is it obvious that this is an effort to improve feather and type in my clearwings? Pair 14: Olive Clearwing x Olive Clearwing - Don't laugh at the small clearwing hen she is being used for her almost spotlessly clear wings to a cock that has bred some real beauties of clearwings for me last season. I just want to impart his style on some birds with cleaner wings. Pair 15: Dark Green Clearwing x Violet Clearwing - A HUGE cock bird with sloppy longflighted wings and a long tail. His markings are not horrible though and the hen is a nice neat girl with good wing clarity and a nice style. She is a daughter of the cock bird above. Pair 16: Olive Clearwing x Dark Green Clearwing - believe it or not this cock bird came 11th at 2008 nats. I'm using him for his super clean wings again to a more stylish hen that still has reasonable wing clarity. Pair 17: Violet Clearwing x Normal Skyblue - I had wanted to pair Titan's cobalt brother to a violet hen to produce some normal violets/clearwing but he is not in condition so I've gone for a vibrantly coloured violet clearwing cock to a nice skyblue hen. Some violet skys please! Pair 18: BES x BES - A very vibrantly coloured BES cock paired to a bigger more typey grey yellow hen. Hoping to improve size and feather here. Pair 19: Green Fallow x Blue Fallow - Cock came 6th Nats 2009. The hen was recently purchased with Darryl's aid at the recent Brasea auction. I just hope to get SOME fallows.........!!!!!! Pair 20: Normal Light Green/Fallow x Opaline Dark Green/Fallow - A brother sister pairing trying to aviod cinnamon. This pair are brother and sister to the fallow cock above. Pair 21: Normal Grey Green/Fallow/Cinnamon x Green Fallow - okay, what's the bet that I end up with cinnamon fallows (which look identical to lacewings) from this split cinnamon split fallow cock bird, but it's worth a chance I suppose. I'll probably only run this pair for one round and replace them with some fallows coming from the east soon. Pair 22: Normal Grey x Grey Green Opaline Spangle - Holy Cr@p and my most favourite hen. His blow and size with her directional feather would be what I'm after here. Pair 23: Grey Green Opaline Spangle x Normal Grey Green - Holy Cr@p's sister to a cock that comes from C&B Gearings Nats grey winning line (a brother to the dark green opaline spangle from earlier). If she has the potential to pass on some genetics like Holy Cr@p's with the added benefit of a strong cock line, that'd be great. I had put this hen with the green boy that came 10th at 2009 Nats but he's now with the hen recently bought at the Brasea show so this is a bit of a punt. Pair 24: Normal Light Green x Grey Spangle - A pairing that I promised to share! The hen is a DF M1 YF and I want to breed some green/yf from this very strong young green cock bird whose mother is the green hen in pair 9. I've been told the spangle hen breeds better than herself....... I just hope so. But a little tinker never hurt anyone. So now it's just the waiting game but already some hens have been happily exploring their nest boxes and digging in the nesting material - a good sign hopefully. Sheesh, just had a major hickup and huge amount of re-formatting to do. Sorry for those trying to read prior to me fixing it up! Edited August 29, 201014 yr by nubbly5
August 29, 201014 yr Once again, I enjoy the narrative and you explaining why you are pairing what you have. Love those dark green cocks form the dark green hen. The grye looks great....... Heck they all look great Best of luck. PS One of my best young hens just broke her leg at the hip joint
August 29, 201014 yr Absolutely stunningly gorgeous birds. I would die to have some of them in my aviary The BES hen is heaps bigger then the cock! She looks like a stunning hen. The clearwings Pair 14 hen and pair 16 cock have VERY clear wings, looks very nice Pair 19 Cock Fallow is stunningly gorgeous! Just wondering, but if I was in your position I would have put him with the fallow hen in pair 21. Have you considered this, and if so why did you choose not to do it? (I am not meaning to sound like I know more, just wondering what you would think of the pairing??) Gorgeous birds Edited August 29, 201014 yr by KAZ
August 29, 201014 yr Author Absolutely stunningly gorgeous birds. I would die to have some of them in my aviary The BES hen is heaps bigger then the cock! She looks like a stunning hen. The clearwings Pair 14 hen and pair 16 cock have VERY clear wings, looks very nice Pair 19 Cock Fallow is stunningly gorgeous! Just wondering, but if I was in your position I would have put him with the fallow hen in pair 21. Have you considered this, and if so why did you choose not to do it? (I am not meaning to sound like I know more, just wondering what you would think of the pairing??) Gorgeous birds Thanks S_C! Yes I have thought of my fallow pairings quite closely. You'll see that both the cock and the hen are heavy bodied "dumpy" kind of birds. I really don't want to double up on that plus I've had a lot of trouble with my fallows breeding dwarfs and spastic (kind describe it any other way) birds and I really want to outcross into another line altogether for some visuals. The hen in pair 19 is bred from some very strong Jean Horrobin fallows so hopefully that's far enough removed from the cock bird to give me some fresh genetics as well as the possibility of popping out something nice. The hen in pair 19 is also much stronger in the facial features than the hen in 21 who is more an example of an older style of bird. It's just bit hard to see that distinction with my slap dash photography Edited August 29, 201014 yr by KAZ
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