I hope your right because a just went on in my head when I read your post... If you're wrong I guess I just have to find a way to switch it off :party0011:

 

 

Well, in that case, I will just have to go back to the drawing board until I get it right. Maybe after Sunday I will learn more!

It sounds right, but honestly up until this point I haven't understood Alleles or anything like that so you are right :party0011:

Finnie you are an ABSOLUTE STAR!

 

Yes, the way you have described does make a LOT more sense. I am going to read and re-read your post so I can commit it to memory - then maybe I will have a couple more questions.

 

THANK YOU! :party0011:

Thinking of it as removing the yellow helps a lot actually. Well done RIP for your posts explaining it, and Finnie, for your synopsis.

Finnie you have done a marvelous job on that little post of yours. I think you are grasping the YF genetics quite well. I will just comment where is is needed.

 

okay, everybody, I did my genetics homework and I think I have figured it out (kind of, I hope)

And if I can copy my notes without making too many typos, this might make sense.

(Of course, if I get something wrong, point it out so I don't spread misinformation.) Here goes.

 

 

All these alleles are on the same gene: Normal (which is green), Goldenface, Yellowface Mutant II, Yellowface Mutant I and Blue. (In order of dominance) Correct.

 

Genes come in pairs, so here are all the possibilities we can come up with: Actually there are other combinations but what you have listed is the simplest form.

 

Normal/Normal

Normal/Goldenface

Normal/YFll

Normal/YFl

Normal/Blue (Normal is complete dominance, so all normal green birds)

 

Goldenface/Goldenface

Goldenface/YFll

Goldenface/YFl

Goldenface/Blue (Goldenface is incomplete dominance, so these are distinguishable from each other.) Correct although Goldenface/Goldenface by which I am sure you mean double factor will be completely different to Goldenface/Blue which is the single factor.

 

YFll/YFll

YFll/YFl

YFll/Blue (YFll is complete dominance, so these all look the same -I think) Again the YFII/YFII is double factor and will look different to the YFII/Blue.

YFl/YFl (Double factor = blue bird, white face)

YFl/Blue (Single factor = blue bird, yellow face) (Again, incomplete dominance, because the /blue factor affects the appearance.)

 

Blue/Blue (least dominant, can't be split to anything. Blue, of course)

 

 

The tricky part is that because of the incomplete dominance, all four combinations of Goldenface look slightly different from each other. (RIP amazed us all earlier with her ability to detect the differences, I can't even begin to describe them properly!) I can tell you it is hard to pick on some colours, especially Violet. Violet is the lest affected of the Blue series colours.

 

She did mention that we are supposed to think of these mutations as "yellow removing" factors. After studying how she described Kaz's (and my one) photos, I think I can list what each of them "does". This is the head spinning question part: Did I get it right? You did very well Finnie. I think your a bit of a dark horse.

 

 

Normal allele - removes NO yellow at all

 

Goldenface allele - removes NO yellow from the face, removes SOME yellow from the body and wings

 

Yellowface mutant ll - removes SOME yellow from the face, removes SOME yellow from the body and wings

 

Yellowface mutant l - removes SOME yellow from the face (when doubled up, removes ALL), removes ALL yellow from the body and wings

 

Blue allele - removes ALL yellow from the face, romoves ALL yellow from the body and wings

 

When yellow pigment is removed it is removed equally from all parts of the bird. It appears to be removed differently due to the different quanties in the different parts of the body. One of the best ways to see the quantity and spread of the yellow pigment is to look at an Albino or better yet a Dark Eyed Clear (DEC). Put each type of YF on a Blue series DEC and you will see exactly where the spread and quantity of yellow is.

 

 

I found it interesting that the order they are dominant to each other is also the order in which more and more yellow is removed. (Note the NOs, the SOMEs and the ALLs.)

 

 

And I THINK, but am not sure, that it fits that when you combine the Goldenface with the lesser dominant alleles, you get lighter and lighter shades of yellow in the face, because more and more yellow is "being removed". I'm guessing that the double factor Goldenface doesn't make the yellow "extra dark", it just leaves it as dark as it normally is in a green bird. What is happening here is the two alleles are trying to express themselvesat the same time. As neither can express itself to the full of its genetic function is basically has to compromise with the other allele.

 

So, what do you think? Does it make sense, or does it just make it more confusing? (Or did I just butcher it all?)

 

Well, it's after 11:00 here, and I'm no night owl, so I can go happily off to bed and dream of the frustrated Australians that I have helped drive to drink! :party0011:

 

Have fun guys! Let me know how your Symposium goes on Sunday!

Alright I have a question now.

 

I thought that each allele could carry 3 genes, in this case in order of dominance Green, YF and Blue.

 

Seeing as the YF gene removes yellow pigmentation, Has the YF gene actually mutated or is the denomination of GF, Mutant YFI and Mutant YFII just terminology that has been coined to described the diminishing yellowness?

Alright I have a question now.

 

I thought that each allele could carry 3 genes, in this case in order of dominance Green, YF and Blue.

 

An allele is an alternative form of a gene (one member of a pair) that is located at a specific point on a specific chromosome. There can only be two genes (or alleles) for a trait.

 

Seeing as the YF gene removes yellow pigmentation, Has the YF gene actually mutated or is the denomination of GF, Mutant YFI and Mutant YFII just terminology that has been coined to described the diminishing yellowness?

 

The Yellowface gene has not mutated. The gene that codes for the production of Psittacine Yellow has mutated. Each mutation has been designated a name in order to identify which change has occured.

this is turnning into the most educational thread on yf ever

 

its great even my memory efected brain can deal with this explaiations alot clearer :party0011:

its helping me tie off the lose ends

thanks guys

Only one day to the big YF convention. I wonder if this is how it's events will be recorded....................

 

 

Minutes Of The WA BBC Forum – The Great Yellowface Convention

The WA members' BBS Forum convention kicked off at midday on Sunday 22nd Nov 2009 and was attended by Kaz, Nubbly, Rip, Renee, Jack Daniels, Johnny Walker and The Bundy Bear.

 

The first point of order before commencing the formalities was ensuring the fridge was well stocked. It was at this point that Rip announced she’d brought along a stocked 500 litre fridge on the back of a ute which she’d backed up beside the outdoor meeting area. Nubbly thanked Rip for this generous gesture and proposed a toast to show her gratitude which all present responded to and the first drink was downed.

 

Next agenda item was the Great Yellowface Debate. Rip showed her knowledge of the Yellowface variety by comparing the yellow of the Bundy label to that of a Goldenface and then pouring drinks of Bundy and Dry at different dilutions to represent the Yellow Face Mutants 1 and 2. Rip then asked the bartender for the day, Nubbly, to quickly prepare a bucket of Kahlua and milk and this was used to represent the YF Mutant 1 DF. All agreed this was an excellent analogy and, after drinking the Mutants 1 and 2 and the YF Mutant 1 DF, Rip was thrown into the pool for being a smarty pants.

 

The next item was one which has frustrated BBC forum members for quite some time: the inability of Renee’s camera to even take one in focus photograph. Kaz and Nubbly took about half an hour and 3 drinks showing Renee how to use the camera at which point Renee was asked to show what she’d learned. She responded by taking an out of focus shot of the ute. At this point the other forum members had had enough and threw her into the pool, camera and all. After Renee exited the pool, all members had another drink and it was found that the focus on Renee’s camera had remarkably improved.

 

The next item for discussion was to determine how many drinks all members had now had. Nobody was quite sure so they all had 2 more and called it an even dozen.

 

Kaz then presented the Yellowface she’d brought along for discussion. After much discussion all agreed that the bird was a Yellowface Greywing Spangle Opaline Tripled Breasted Mattress Thrasher. As punishment for mixing so many varieties Kaz was then thrown into the pool and rescued by the on-duty lifeguard who was wearing, of course, red budgie smugglers.

 

After a few more drinks and some wild "back of the ute" dancing it was now 3PM. Nubbly showed that her well earned drinking reputation from the Nats a few years back was fair dinkum as she was now the only one still awake. As she was also the only one still dry she thought it only fitting that she should throw herself into the pool. Three times. Each time to be rescued by a muscly Mr Red Budgie Smugglers.

 

The meeting closed at 4 PM and, upon awakening the next day, all agreed that it had been a very informative meeting and that many issues had been resolved and the next meeting was scheduled for 2010 to be held at GB’s House Of Smirnoff.

Alright I have a question now.

 

I thought that each allele could carry 3 genes, in this case in order of dominance Green, YF and Blue.

 

An allele is an alternative form of a gene (one member of a pair) that is located at a specific point on a specific chromosome. There can only be two genes (or alleles) for a trait.

 

Seeing as the YF gene removes yellow pigmentation, Has the YF gene actually mutated or is the denomination of GF, Mutant YFI and Mutant YFII just terminology that has been coined to described the diminishing yellowness?

 

The Yellowface gene has not mutated. The gene that codes for the production of Psittacine Yellow has mutated. Each mutation has been designated a name in order to identify which change has occured.

Hmmmmmm. okay I see I am going to have to remain sober tomorrow :question:

 

So, let me get this straight. When a chick is formed it inherits its features and Variation from its parents in the form of genes, specifically one allele per characteristic from each parent?

 

When we talk about the sequence of dominance . ie. Green, YF, Blue, What is that group of genes called?

Only one day to the big YF convention. I wonder if this is how it's events will be recorded....................

 

 

Minutes Of The WA BBC Forum – The Great Yellowface Convention

The WA members' BBS Forum convention kicked off at midday on Sunday 22nd Nov 2009 and was attended by Kaz, Nubbly, Rip, Renee, Jack Daniels, Johnny Walker and The Bundy Bear.

 

The first point of order before commencing the formalities was ensuring the fridge was well stocked. It was at this point that Rip announced she'd brought along a stocked 500 litre fridge on the back of a ute which she'd backed up beside the outdoor meeting area. Nubbly thanked Rip for this generous gesture and proposed a toast to show her gratitude which all present responded to and the first drink was downed.

 

Next agenda item was the Great Yellowface Debate. Rip showed her knowledge of the Yellowface variety by comparing the yellow of the Bundy label to that of a Goldenface and then pouring drinks of Bundy and Dry at different dilutions to represent the Yellow Face Mutants 1 and 2. Rip then asked the bartender for the day, Nubbly, to quickly prepare a bucket of Kahlua and milk and this was used to represent the YF Mutant 1 DF. All agreed this was an excellent analogy and, after drinking the Mutants 1 and 2 and the YF Mutant 1 DF, Rip was thrown into the pool for being a smarty pants.

 

The next item was one which has frustrated BBC forum members for quite some time: the inability of Renee's camera to even take one in focus photograph. Kaz and Nubbly took about half an hour and 3 drinks showing Renee how to use the camera at which point Renee was asked to show what she'd learned. She responded by taking an out of focus shot of the ute. At this point the other forum members had had enough and threw her into the pool, camera and all. After Renee exited the pool, all members had another drink and it was found that the focus on Renee's camera had remarkably improved. :bump:

 

The next item for discussion was to determine how many drinks all members had now had. Nobody was quite sure so they all had 2 more and called it an even dozen.

 

Kaz then presented the Yellowface she'd brought along for discussion. After much discussion all agreed that the bird was a Yellowface Greywing Spangle Opaline Tripled Breasted Mattress Thrasher. As punishment for mixing so many varieties Kaz was then thrown into the pool and rescued by the on-duty lifeguard who was wearing, of course, red budgie smugglers.

 

After a few more drinks and some wild "back of the ute" dancing it was now 3PM. Nubbly showed that her well earned drinking reputation from the Nats a few years back was fair dinkum as she was now the only one still awake. As she was also the only one still dry she thought it only fitting that she should throw herself into the pool. Three times. Each time to be rescued by a muscly Mr Red Budgie Smugglers.

 

The meeting closed at 4 PM and, upon awakening the next day, all agreed that it had been a very informative meeting and that many issues had been resolved and the next meeting was scheduled for 2010 to be held at GB's House Of Smirnoff.

:fear

 

thats so funny lol

i loved it

 

 

:question:

Only one day to the big YF convention. I wonder if this is how it's events will be recorded....................

 

 

Minutes Of The WA BBC Forum – The Great Yellowface Convention

The WA members' BBS Forum convention kicked off at midday on Sunday 22nd Nov 2009 and was attended by Kaz, Nubbly, Rip, Renee, Jack Daniels, Johnny Walker and The Bundy Bear.

 

The first point of order before commencing the formalities was ensuring the fridge was well stocked. It was at this point that Rip announced she’d brought along a stocked 500 litre fridge on the back of a ute which she’d backed up beside the outdoor meeting area. Nubbly thanked Rip for this generous gesture and proposed a toast to show her gratitude which all present responded to and the first drink was downed.

 

Next agenda item was the Great Yellowface Debate. Rip showed her knowledge of the Yellowface variety by comparing the yellow of the Bundy label to that of a Goldenface and then pouring drinks of Bundy and Dry at different dilutions to represent the Yellow Face Mutants 1 and 2. Rip then asked the bartender for the day, Nubbly, to quickly prepare a bucket of Kahlua and milk and this was used to represent the YF Mutant 1 DF. All agreed this was an excellent analogy and, after drinking the Mutants 1 and 2 and the YF Mutant 1 DF, Rip was thrown into the pool for being a smarty pants.

 

The next item was one which has frustrated BBC forum members for quite some time: the inability of Renee’s camera to even take one in focus photograph. Kaz and Nubbly took about half an hour and 3 drinks showing Renee how to use the camera at which point Renee was asked to show what she’d learned. She responded by taking an out of focus shot of the ute. At this point the other forum members had had enough and threw her into the pool, camera and all. After Renee exited the pool, all members had another drink and it was found that the focus on Renee’s camera had remarkably improved.

 

The next item for discussion was to determine how many drinks all members had now had. Nobody was quite sure so they all had 2 more and called it an even dozen.

 

Kaz then presented the Yellowface she’d brought along for discussion. After much discussion all agreed that the bird was a Yellowface Greywing Spangle Opaline Tripled Breasted Mattress Thrasher. As punishment for mixing so many varieties Kaz was then thrown into the pool and rescued by the on-duty lifeguard who was wearing, of course, red budgie smugglers.

 

After a few more drinks and some wild "back of the ute" dancing it was now 3PM. Nubbly showed that her well earned drinking reputation from the Nats a few years back was fair dinkum as she was now the only one still awake. As she was also the only one still dry she thought it only fitting that she should throw herself into the pool. Three times. Each time to be rescued by a muscly Mr Red Budgie Smugglers.

 

The meeting closed at 4 PM and, upon awakening the next day, all agreed that it had been a very informative meeting and that many issues had been resolved and the next meeting was scheduled for 2010 to be held at GB’s House Of Smirnoff.

 

:question::rofl::bump::rofl::rofl::fear:rofl::rofl:

Only one day to the big YF convention. I wonder if this is how it's events will be recorded.................... Minutes Of The WA BBC Forum – The Great Yellowface ConventionThe WA members' BBS Forum convention kicked off at midday on Sunday 22nd Nov 2009 and was attended by Kaz, Nubbly, Rip, Renee, Jack Daniels, Johnny Walker and The Bundy Bear.The first point of order before commencing the formalities was ensuring the fridge was well stocked. It was at this point that Rip announced she’d brought along a stocked 500 litre fridge on the back of a ute which she’d backed up beside the outdoor meeting area. Nubbly thanked Rip for this generous gesture and proposed a toast to show her gratitude which all present responded to and the first drink was downed. Next agenda item was the Great Yellowface Debate. Rip showed her knowledge of the Yellowface variety by comparing the yellow of the Bundy label to that of a Goldenface and then pouring drinks of Bundy and Dry at different dilutions to represent the Yellow Face Mutants 1 and 2. Rip then asked the bartender for the day, Nubbly, to quickly prepare a bucket of Kahlua and milk and this was used to represent the YF Mutant 1 DF. All agreed this was an excellent analogy and, after drinking the Mutants 1 and 2 and the YF Mutant 1 DF, Rip was thrown into the pool for being a smarty pants.The next item was one which has frustrated BBC forum members for quite some time: the inability of Renee’s camera to even take one in focus photograph. Kaz and Nubbly took about half an hour and 3 drinks showing Renee how to use the camera at which point Renee was asked to show what she’d learned. She responded by taking an out of focus shot of the ute. At this point the other forum members had had enough and threw her into the pool, camera and all. After Renee exited the pool, all members had another drink and it was found that the focus on Renee’s camera had remarkably improved.The next item for discussion was to determine how many drinks all members had now had. Nobody was quite sure so they all had 2 more and called it an even dozen. Kaz then presented the Yellowface she’d brought along for discussion. After much discussion all agreed that the bird was a Yellowface Greywing Spangle Opaline Tripled Breasted Mattress Thrasher. As punishment for mixing so many varieties Kaz was then thrown into the pool and rescued by the on-duty lifeguard who was wearing, of course, red budgie smugglers. After a few more drinks and some wild "back of the ute" dancing it was now 3PM. Nubbly showed that her well earned drinking reputation from the Nats a few years back was fair dinkum as she was now the only one still awake. As she was also the only one still dry she thought it only fitting that she should throw herself into the pool. Three times. Each time to be rescued by a muscly Mr Red Budgie Smugglers. The meeting closed at 4 PM and, upon awakening the next day, all agreed that it had been a very informative meeting and that many issues had been resolved and the next meeting was scheduled for 2010 to be held at GB’s House Of Smirnoff.

:question: :bump: :fear That is the funniest thing I have read for ages. You certainly did your homework. Only question I have is how did you pick the Kahlua? I have that on my list to take down. It is home made 40%.

Alright I have a question now. I thought that each allele could carry 3 genes, in this case in order of dominance Green, YF and Blue.An allele is an alternative form of a gene (one member of a pair) that is located at a specific point on a specific chromosome. There can only be two genes (or alleles) for a trait. Seeing as the YF gene removes yellow pigmentation, Has the YF gene actually mutated or is the denomination of GF, Mutant YFI and Mutant YFII just terminology that has been coined to described the diminishing yellowness?The Yellowface gene has not mutated. The gene that codes for the production of Psittacine Yellow has mutated. Each mutation has been designated a name in order to identify which change has occured.

Hmmmmmm. okay I see I am going to have to remain sober tomorrow So, let me get this straight. When a chick is formed it inherits its features and Variation from its parents in the form of genes, specifically one allele per characteristic from each parent?When we talk about the sequence of dominance . ie. Green, YF, Blue, What is that group of genes called? Multiple alleles

I hope Renee has Tony digging the new swimming pool by torchlight :question::rofl::bump::rofl:

:question: :bump: :fear That is the funniest thing I have read for ages. You certainly did your homework. Only question I have is how did you pick the Kahlua? I have that on my list to take down. It is home made 40%.

 

 

Just me spending a little too much time on this forum

 

The Kahlua reference was just a lucky guess that fitted in with the story. 40% eh, may have to fit that into the minutes somehow!

That was classic Daryl, almost deserves for this topic to be Pinned :question:

:question: :bump: :fear That is the funniest thing I have read for ages. You certainly did your homework. Only question I have is how did you pick the Kahlua? I have that on my list to take down. It is home made 40%.

 

 

Just me spending a little too much time on this forum

 

The Kahlua reference was just a lucky guess that fitted in with the story. 40% eh, may have to fit that into the minutes somehow!

you're a genius Daryl. Very Funny!

Hmmmmmm. okay I see I am going to have to remain sober tomorrow :question: So, let me get this straight. When a chick is formed it inherits its features and Variation from its parents in the form of genes, specifically one allele per characteristic from each parent?When we talk about the sequence of dominance . ie. Green, YF, Blue, What is that group of genes called? Multiple alleles

 

 

The Multiple alleles for the gene we are talking about here are: 1. normal, 2. GF, 3. YFll, 4. YFl, andf 5. blue. Until more variations mutate, these are the only possibilities that can go in this spot.

 

It might help to think of it like names in a hat. No other names are possible in this hat. But, your chick doesn't get to pick from all 5, it only gets to pick from the ones it's parents have to put into the hat. Each parent has 2 to put in, so there are 4 in there, total. The chick only gets to pick 2. (Obviously, chicks don't pick their own genes, but then again, the hat is imaginary anyway )

 

Incidentally, since the chick picks 2 and there are 2 left, the one you were hoping the father would pass down to the offspring is almost guaranteed to be one of the ones left behind! :bump:

 

Does this help at all, Renee?

Hmmmmmm. okay I see I am going to have to remain sober tomorrow :rofl: So, let me get this straight. When a chick is formed it inherits its features and Variation from its parents in the form of genes, specifically one allele per characteristic from each parent?When we talk about the sequence of dominance . ie. Green, YF, Blue, What is that group of genes called? Multiple alleles

 

 

The Multiple alleles for the gene we are talking about here are: 1. normal, 2. GF, 3. YFll, 4. YFl, andf 5. blue. Until more variations mutate, these are the only possibilities that can go in this spot.

 

It might help to think of it like names in a hat. No other names are possible in this hat. But, your chick doesn't get to pick from all 5, it only gets to pick from the ones it's parents have to put into the hat. Each parent has 2 to put in, so there are 4 in there, total. The chick only gets to pick 2. (Obviously, chicks don't pick their own genes, but then again, the hat is imaginary anyway )

 

Incidentally, since the chick picks 2 and there are 2 left, the one you were hoping the father would pass down to the offspring is almost guaranteed to be one of the ones left behind!

 

Does this help at all, Renee?

 

Yes it does Finnie, Thank You!

 

So when we talk about the gene being on the same allele, we mean that in that specific point of the gene sequence one allele from each parent will be inherited?

 

And in this particular case the options are one allele being Green, GF, YFI, YFII or Blue!

Yes it does Finnie, Thank You!

 

So when we talk about the gene being on the same allele, we mean that in that specific point of the gene sequence one allele from each parent will be inherited?

 

And in this particular case the options are one allele being Green, GF, YFI, YFII or Blue!

 

 

By Jove, I think she's got it! :rofl:

Yes it does Finnie, Thank You!

 

So when we talk about the gene being on the same allele, we mean that in that specific point of the gene sequence one allele from each parent will be inherited?

 

And in this particular case the options are one allele being Green, GF, YFI, YFII or Blue!

By Jove, I think she's got it! :celebrate:

 

Well .... I think I have reached the stage where it is as good as it is going to get!

Yes it does Finnie, Thank You! :rofl:

 

So when we talk about the gene being on the same allele, we mean that in that specific point of the gene sequence one allele from each parent will be inherited?

 

And in this particular case the options are one allele being Green, GF, YFI, YFII or Blue!

By Jove, I think she's got it!

 

Well .... I think I have reached the stage where it is as good as it is going to get!

 

lol

still doing better than me mate

i can only do things with live visuals lol

other wize im **** :celebrate:

How did the Sunday Synupsis go???

How did the Sunday Synupsis go???

It was great! I discovered that I knew more about calculating genetic outcomes than I previously thought And also discovered that I have already bred some Olives, cinnie Olives to boot! Now I was hoping to be able to do that in a couple of years time to complement my Lute line so am really happy about that!

 

I think Nubbly took photos of the amazing display of Golden Faces and Yellow Faces that Kaz (courtesy of Libby) and RIP brought along. And RIP did a ripper of an explanation of genes with strands of pearls and sting!!!! Then an indepth description on a whiteboard she brought along especially for the genetically challenged!

 

Nubbly's busy with away work this week so we will have to be patient till she returns online.

Sunday was fantastic. I got photos of YF mutant 2's sf & df and GF, sf & df. This coming sunday I take charge of a DF YF mutant 1 (white face) and get to photograph her chicks (known sf mutant 1's presumably) so if you guys can be a bit patient and wait until after Sunday I will post a picture and word coverage of pretty much what we covered on Sunday.

 

Oh and I'm online intermittently but am in NSW and can't download photos until I get home Friday or after.

 

AND I JUST read Daryl's smart **** post and almost weed myself. Hmmmm Mr Red Budgie Smugglers sounds very interesting (oops sorry Grant ).

Edited November 24, 200915 yr by nubbly5