Kaz, Gina are you up for Renee's place.

As long as Renee doesnt cook :rofl:

 

Oh I don't know, some people prefer scorched snags and torched steaks combined with limp lettuce and squishy tomatoes - at least you know you'll be getting good grog!

 

okay, back on topic.I will forget the term Aussie YF Mutant II and from now on in my mind refer to them as SF Golden Faces.

 

I am sure it has been said elsewhere, but what is the Visual difference between a SF and DF Yellow Face (is it the suffusion?) and WHAT happens if you breed YF to GF, visually and genetically?

 

gb is ing ing :bliss: ing but feels discussion will be over

fine with burnt scortched lol as i am usto this salad squashed or not grog will make anything look good lol

 

as for yf and gf ren dont even do this as its just a mess to work out what you have in end but birds are pretty

Yar..... single factor golden face is heavily suffused. Double factor golden face is a gorgeous bird with little yellow suffusion through the body but a strong golden yellow face.

 

I didn't read far enough. The big confusion about YF's is when you get the different versions combined and then you can have combination yf's I believe. I'm hoping RIP can clarify some of this on Sunday as I find this aspect of YF breeding the most confusing.

 

With all 3 yf varieties, the DF version has less yellow pigment than the single factor version.

Edited November 18, 200915 yr by nubbly5

I have had golden faced budgies and I have had yellowfaced budgies in the past when I didnt know what they were unless someone told me what they were....GF or YF. Not much has changed but I hope to figure it out soon.

Here are some of my past budgies...before show budgies. Maybe someone who knows can comment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 200915 yr by KAZ

they are nice lol

I have had golden faced budgies and I have had yellowfaced budgies in the past when I didnt know what they were unless someone told me what they were....GF or YF. Not much has changed but I hope to figure it out soon.Here are some of my past budgies...before show budgies. Maybe someone who knows can comment.

my guesses only guesses yf1 above bellow yf 2

 

 

above yf2

above yf1

 

aboveyf2

 

 

 

hope you put right tags to what i say as the thing when hay wire when i posted sorry

above yf1

this is the first violet i said was yf2 could be a df gf

above type2

 

 

above df gf

 

 

 

df gf im sure it is now with the varied pics

 

type 1

 

 

so anyone how bad did i go

 

Edited November 18, 200915 yr by GenericBlue

Kaz, Gina are you up for Renee's place.

As long as Renee doesnt cook :rofl:

 

Oh I don't know, some people prefer scorched snags and torched steaks combined with limp lettuce and squishy tomatoes - at least you know you'll be getting good grog!

 

okay, back on topic.I will forget the term Aussie YF Mutant II and from now on in my mind refer to them as SF Golden Faces.

 

I am sure it has been said elsewhere, but what is the Visual difference between a SF and DF Yellow Face (is it the suffusion?) and WHAT happens if you breed YF to GF, visually and genetically?

 

gb is :bliss: ing :bliss: ing :bliss: ing but feels discussion will be over

fine with burnt scortched lol as i am usto this salad squashed or not grog will make :celebrate: anything look good lol

 

as for yf and gf ren dont even do this as its just a mess to work out what you have in end but birds are pretty

 

Keep :bliss: ing GB. Don't know about Kaz's alchol tolerance but nubbs can certainly hit the slops. Renee defiantely likes a drop or two and me, well dare I say I have been caught dancing on the back of a one tunna in the afternoon at an ag show once or twice. :celebrate:

Edited November 18, 200915 yr by RIPbudgies

Well thats it then, at least the WA members of the forum will understand it come Sunday :celebrate: just kidding as long as you post a detailed transcript of the meeting I am happy to see it sanctioned as an official BBC event :celebrate:

My jottings are in green.

 

I have had golden faced budgies and I have had yellowfaced budgies in the past when I didnt know what they were unless someone told me what they were....GF or YF. Not much has changed but I hope to figure it out soon.

Here are some of my past budgies...before show budgies. Maybe someone who knows can comment.

 

The thing to remember here is these are pictures not always taken with the best light available although having said that Kaz seems to have aknack with a camera.

Monitors are difference from PC to PC and peoples eyesight is also a factor some people are just better at picking things up than others. As I have never seen these birds in the flesh nor know there breeding history I can only comment on what I see before me.

 

 

single factor Yellowface Mutant I - This form restricts the yellow to the face. Double factor of this mutant has a white face and looks exactly like any Normal Blue series bird.

 

 

single factor Yellowface Mutant II - This form will show yellow suffusion through the body give rise to shades of 'sea-green' or 'aqua' looking body colour.

 

 

single factor Yellowface Mutant II - Although I would not be surprise if this bird may have been a composite of YF MI and GF. Only the correct pairing will produce a result.

 

 

This bird is in nest feather and can any of the following - single factor Yellowface Mutant I: single factor Yellowface Mutant II or double factor Yellowface Mutant II. I tend to lean towards it being a single factor Yellowface Mutant I. It cannot be a Goldenface as in nest feather the yellow would be a little stronger and there would be a little more yellow in the wings.

 

 

double factor Goldenface. In double factor form the yellow is more restricted but it is not entirely removed from wings and secondary tail feathers. If you look really close you will also see that it is not entirely removed from the body either. There will be some trace.

 

 

double factor Goldenface. As already mentioned in the bird above re yellow restriction. This bird is Opaline. You will notice that the action of the Opaline geen is to replace the white of the wing area with body colour and by doing so it eliminates the yellow from these areas giving a better yellowfaced individual.

 

 

double factor Yellowface Mutant II. Although I would not be surprised if this bird was a composite of Yellowface Mutant I and Goldenface.

 

 

double factor Goldenface.

 

 

double factor Goldenface. This bird also appears to be a Greywing so the body colour is reduced but you will note that there is little to no suffusion.

 

 

double factor Goldenface. Note the suffusion of the breast area and the yellow in the wings.

 

 

This bird was already discussed earlier

 

 

single factor Yellowface Mutant I

 

 

double factor Goldenface. This bird is Opaline just as an earlier one pictured and so the same Opaline rule applies here.

 

It is a shame that you no long have these birds Kaz. All the double factor goldenfaces I would have paired to best Normal Blues and produced single factor Goldenfaces which depending on prepotency would have given you a good base of single factor birds to start from.

Edited November 19, 200915 yr by RIPbudgies

WOW, awesome post RIP.

 

So let me see if I have this right.

 

You can have single factor and double factor yellowface and golden face

 

Both yellow face and golden face can by type I or II

 

You can have a combination of Yellowface and goldenface.

 

Golden face is where you ahve the richer, deeper brighter colour yellow face.

Here's another one for you, RIP. It's not the best shot, but is it good enough to tell what this one is?

 

">

 

It doesn't show, but on her belly you can see an area with a hint of yellow/green, just like was described above.

 

double factor Yellowface Mutant II. Although I would not be surprised if this bird was a composite of Yellowface Mutant I and Goldenface.

 

 

single factor Yellowface Mutant I

 

RIP, I agree with all of the comments you have posted above but have a question with the birds shown above. I agree the second bird appears to be SF YF Mut I but could the first bird also be the same? Or have you called the first one Mutant II as the yellow appears a little darker than the second. On my monitor they appear about the same.

Well I evidently am very slow when it comes to this topic as I thought we were going to forget the whole MUTANT thingio .... but evidently not.

 

I will have to wait till Sunday.

double factor Yellowface Mutant II. Although I would not be surprised if this bird was a composite of Yellowface Mutant I and Goldenface.

 

Good pickup :celebrate: This violet baby and others were bred from these two.............

 

 

I also got some dark dark grey YF babies from this paring and some olives. One of the dark grey YF babies turned olive greenish after a moult. BBC Member Libby has some of this original stock as I sold them all to her.

Edited November 19, 200915 yr by KAZ

WOW, awesome post RIP.

 

So let me see if I have this right.

 

You can have single factor and double factor yellowface and golden face

 

Both yellow face and golden face can by type I or II

 

You can have a combination of Yellowface and goldenface.

 

Golden face is where you ahve the richer, deeper brighter colour yellow face.

 

 

Dave, earlier on, RIP said that Goldenface doesn't have I orII, it's just plain Goldenface.

Keep :bliss: ing GB. Don't know about Kaz's alchol tolerance but nubbs can certainly hit the slops. Renee defiantely likes a drop or two and me, well dare I say I have been caught dancing on the back of a one tunna in the afternoon at an ag show once or twice. :celebrate:

 

lol

 

i cant run anymore between the heat and my walking aid im looking kinda like road kill

so im going to have to turn around :rofl:

mabe next time but definitely will have to have a drop or two one day :celebrate:

even if via phone or cam lol i know where you coming from with the tunna lol

i can picture it clearly :bliss: i myself didnt mind the old tables till i did my back and leg :bliss: now i just kind of look like im rap dancing (as in fallen on floor sprawling around trying to get my none active knee to stay supportive ) when i go out for drinks in future im going to start in a wheelchair rather than end up in one

 

 

 

so i didnt do two bad in my guess i got a few wrong the grey wing i put as type 2

the opaline i put as type one but could not see the mild yellow sufuss in her wings

'i didnt even conbsider the both mutations as a mix

but got the df right after veiwing the pics of her after the first shot where she tended to looklike a type 2

later pics reviled other wize

so im happy with that

as if the birds were in frount of me im sure i would have been on the ball give or take the mixed mutants :bliss:

Edited November 19, 200915 yr by KAZ

Well I evidently am very slow when it comes to this topic as I thought we were going to forget the whole MUTANT thingio .... but evidently not.

 

I will have to wait till Sunday.

 

 

I think Goldenface does not have Mutations but YF does... and I think Goldenface is also called Australian Yellowface... Thats what I think I've learnt from this thread...

Well I evidently am very slow when it comes to this topic as I thought we were going to forget the whole MUTANT thingio .... but evidently not.

 

I will have to wait till Sunday.

 

 

I think Goldenface does not have Mutations but YF does... and I think Goldenface is also called Australian Yellowface... Thats what I think I've learnt from this thread...

 

Well Jimmy I'm with you on this one. :celebrate:

 

But why can't we just refer to the variations as Golden Face SF and DF & Yellow Face SF and DF????? I know it's just a case of terminology but this way I for one would not get so confused and mixed up! :celebrate:

WOW, awesome post RIP.

 

So let me see if I have this right. You can have single factor and double factor yellowface and golden face Yes that is correct.

 

Both yellow face and golden face can by type I or II No. The word 'type' was in fashion some 30-40 plus years ago and in regular usage concerning this variety. It was dropped in favour of the term 'mutant' by more senior breeders such as Ken Gray (UK). The term 'type' is used for something else which is to complicated to go into here.

 

You can have a combination of Yellowface and goldenface. Most definately.

 

Golden face is where you have the richer, deeper brighter colour yellow face. Yes

Edited November 19, 200915 yr by RIPbudgies

Kaz, Gina are you up for Renee's place.

As long as Renee doesnt cook :rofl:

Oh I don't know, some people prefer scorched snags and torched steaks combined with limp lettuce and squishy tomatoes - at least you know you'll be getting good grog! okay, back on topic.I will forget the term Aussie YF Mutant II and from now on in my mind refer to them as SF Golden Faces.I am sure it has been said elsewhere, but what is the Visual difference between a SF and DF Yellow Face (is it the suffusion?) and WHAT happens if you breed YF to GF, visually and genetically?

gb is ing ing ing but feels discussion will be over fine with burnt scortched lol as i am usto this salad squashed or not grog will make :fear anything look good lolas for yf and gf ren dont even do this as its just a mess to work out what you have in end but birds are pretty :hug:

Keep :bliss: ing GB. Don't know about Kaz's alchol tolerance but nubbs can certainly hit the slops. Renee defiantely likes a drop or two and me, well dare I say I have been caught dancing on the back of a one tunna in the afternoon at an ag show once or twice. :fear

Have you ever actually SEEN me on the slops RIP?????? There are a few WA people who MIGHT have seen me on form at a Nationals somewhere but I'll deny it coz you can't prove it........ until Sunday......!!!!!

Well I evidently am very slow when it comes to this topic as I thought we were going to forget the whole MUTANT thingio .... but evidently not.I will have to wait till Sunday.

I think Goldenface does not have Mutations but YF does... and I think Goldenface is also called Australian Yellowface... Thats what I think I've learnt from this thread...

Well Jimmy I'm with you on this one. But why can't we just refer to the variations as Golden Face SF and DF & Yellow Face SF and DF????? I know it's just a case of terminology but this way I for one would not get so confused and mixed up!

Yep Jimmy - spot on.

 

And Renee Golden Face SF & DF is just fine but there are 2 other types of YF commonly called mutant 1 and mutant 2 (or you could call them yf TYPE 1 and YF TYPE 2 if that makes it easier).

Edited November 19, 200915 yr by nubbly5

But why can't we just refer to the variations as Golden Face SF and DF & Yellow Face SF and DF????? I know it's just a case of terminology but this way I for one would not get so confused and mixed up! :hug:

 

 

Renee, I think it's because there are 3 different types of "yellow face", and unfortunately, they decided to name two of them the same. They should have named it something different like "half yellow body" :fear

 

 

So if I have it straight, (I hope) we have:

 

Golden Face (also known as Australian) SF and DF

 

Yellow Face mutant I (also known as Type 1) SF and DF

 

Yellow Face mutant II (henceforth known as "half yellow body" -just kidding) SF and DF

 

 

 

By the way, I must say, I have been finding this thread riveting! It has drawn me out of hiding just a bit. :fear (You're all lucky that I'm only brave enough to say about 1% of all that I am thinking! )

Here's another one for you, RIP. It's not the best shot, but is it good enough to tell what this one is?

 

">

 

It doesn't show, but on her belly you can see an area with a hint of yellow/green, just like was described above.

 

Firstly the bird is a Greywing. Nice body colour and dark grey markings. Lovely bird.On the face of it it looks like a double factor Goldenface but what does not convinve me there is that the photo is shot under incandesant light which tends to make yellows appear darker than they are. I do see that little bit of suffusion. Although it is there faintly due to the Greywing factor I do see yellow through the wings. So I would say your bird be combination of a Yellowface Mutant I and Goldenface. I just don't see enough of the bright yellow indicative of the Goldenface variety to show me it is a pure Goldenface.

But why can't we just refer to the variations as Golden Face SF and DF & Yellow Face SF and DF????? I know it's just a case of terminology but this way I for one would not get so confused and mixed up!

Renee, I think it's because there are 3 different types of "yellow face", and unfortunately, they decided to name two of them the same. They should have named it something different like "half yellow body" :hug:

 

So if I have it straight, (I hope) we have:

 

Golden Face (also known as Australian) SF and DF

 

Yellow Face mutant I (also known as Type 1) SF and DF

 

Yellow Face mutant II (henceforth known as "half yellow body" -just kidding) SF and DF

 

By the way, I must say, I have been finding this thread riveting! It has drawn me out of hiding just a bit. :fear (You're all lucky that I'm only brave enough to say about 1% of all that I am thinking! :bliss: )

 

Oh My Gawd .... You mean there are THREE types of Yellow Faces!!! No Wonder I'm confused! I thought there were only two .... :fear

 

RIP and Nubbly, you have got your work cut out for you with me trying to make head or tail of it!

 

Best we address the whole Yellow Face thing before we hit the grog .... ?

Edited November 19, 200915 yr by renee

Have you ever actually SEEN me on the slops RIP?????? There are a few WA people who MIGHT have seen me on form at a Nationals somewhere but I'll deny it coz you can't prove it........ until Sunday......!!!!! :fear

No I have not seen you one the slops but I do remember you saying something about holding up the bar at the nationals. Is that right???? My memory at the moment is on the fritz. Too much yellow on the brain. :fear

double factor Yellowface Mutant II. Although I would not be surprised if this bird was a composite of Yellowface Mutant I and Goldenface.

Good pickup :hug: This violet baby and others were bred from these two.............I also got some dark dark grey YF babies from this paring and some olives. One of the dark grey YF babies turned olive greenish after a moult. BBC Member Libby has some of this original stock as I sold them all to her.

All the birds produced from those birds would have been single factor Goldenfaces. Some of them would have been composites. The ones like the violet pictured would have been the composites and the ones that moulted out suffused would have been the single factor Goldenfaces.I am going to have to contact Libby and see if she has any left of these birds.

Edited November 19, 200915 yr by RIPbudgies

I am going to have to contact Libby and see if she has any left of these birds.

She wont have the parents but should have the YF violet children.

Here's another one for you, RIP. It's not the best shot, but is it good enough to tell what this one is?

 

">

 

It doesn't show, but on her belly you can see an area with a hint of yellow/green, just like was described above.

 

Firstly the bird is a Greywing. Nice body colour and dark grey markings. Lovely bird.On the face of it it looks like a double factor Goldenface but what does not convinve me there is that the photo is shot under incandesant light which tends to make yellows appear darker than they are. I do see that little bit of suffusion. Although it is there faintly due to the Greywing factor I do see yellow through the wings. So I would say your bird be combination of a Yellowface Mutant I and Goldenface. I just don't see enough of the bright yellow indicative of the Goldenface variety to show me it is a pure Goldenface.

 

 

okay, cool. So greywing causes the yellow in the wings to be harder to see.

 

And a Goldenface/Goldenface has a darker yellow mask than a Godenface/Yellowface Mutant I, which would make me think that Yellowface MutantI/Yellowface MutantI might be even a little bit lighter.

 

Oh, Oh, Oh, wait a minute! Yellow Mutant 1 DF makes a white-face bird, I forgot! So, yeah, definitely lighter. :fear

 

Dare I be a pain in the butt and ask if there is an order of dominance or co-dominance among these? :fear :hug:

Here's another one for you, RIP. It's not the best shot, but is it good enough to tell what this one is?">It doesn't show, but on her belly you can see an area with a hint of yellow/green, just like was described above.

Firstly the bird is a Greywing. Nice body colour and dark grey markings. Lovely bird.On the face of it it looks like a double factor Goldenface but what does not convinve me there is that the photo is shot under incandesant light which tends to make yellows appear darker than they are. I do see that little bit of suffusion. Although it is there faintly due to the Greywing factor I do see yellow through the wings. So I would say your bird be combination of a Yellowface Mutant I and Goldenface. I just don't see enough of the bright yellow indicative of the Goldenface variety to show me it is a pure Goldenface.

okay, cool. So greywing causes the yellow in the wings to be harder to see. And a Goldenface/Goldenface has a darker yellow mask than a Godenface/Yellowface Mutant I, which would make me think that Yellowface MutantI/Yellowface MutantI might be even a little bit lighter. Oh, Oh, Oh, wait a minute! Yellow Mutant 1 DF makes a white-face bird, I forgot! So, yeah, definitely lighter. :fear Dare I be a pain in the butt and ask if there is an order of dominance or co-dominance among these? :fear :hug:

 

Yes Finnie you can be a pain in the butt and ask questions. After all the only stupid question is the one you don't ask. Firstly Green, the Yellow/Golden-faces and Blues form what is called a multiple allele. In simple terms that means the gene that is required to produce the yellow (Psittacine) coloured feathers has mutated several times and therefore there is now several versions (alleles) of this gene. As with all multiple alleles there is an order of dominance and it is as follows. Yellowfaces were always thought of as Blue birds with yellow added but this thinking must be discontinued. They are Green birds with varying degrees of reduced yellow pigmentation. Green dominant over Goldenface over Yellowface Mutant II over Yellowface Mutant I over Blue. This does not affect the single and double factor versions but they do come into play when breeding composites of the yellow faced birds.

 

And Renee Golden Face SF & DF is just fine but there are 2 other types of YF commonly called mutant 1 and mutant 2 (or you could call them yf TYPE 1 and YF TYPE 2 if that makes it easier).

 

I must disagree with using the terms type 1 and type 2. This is used to designate the origin of the dark factor. Sometimes you may come across this:

 

1. Dark Green / Blue type I or

2. Dark Green / Blue type II.

 

What this means is the no 1 recieved its dark factor from an Olive parent and is linked with Green. No 2 recieved its dark factor from a Mauve parent and is linked with Blue. Depending on how these birds are breed it will change the percentages of dark factor birds in both Green and Blue. If you ever want to breed Violets you need to look into this as you well end up breeding lots of Violet Dark Greens when you are trying to breed Violet Cobalts (visual violet).

Edited November 19, 200915 yr by RIPbudgies