Nine years huh :rofl: I got a long way to go...... :rofl:

We bred 3 babies in 2000 (we bought 30 rings late in the year....... very optimistic). First full year of breeding was 2001. But I had done what just about everyone does when they first start out - buy anything and everything. And over the next year or so I started to realize that I had to cull hard and keep a line of birds that would give me the potential to go forward not backwards.

 

Mind you I purchased a grey spangle hen from a local petshop which, combined with one of Ces Gearings cock birds bred the foundation line for my stud (one I call superbudgie after a super hen that won me young hens champion from the novice class). The hen ended up being a Dodgey Bros bird which originally came from Len Vinci stock. Ces' original stock (or at least what I bought) came from Nigel Tonkin birds.

 

Since then I have had a bit of luck with an old Willie Shoeman green that bred my big blue boy and has combined really well with my original lines. Then some Henry George birds which I purchased due to the excellent blow that they have but I've found it a bit hard to get that into my lines without losing the width of head (HG's often seem a bit narrow from the front). I've also been lucky to have been given a son of Ces' national grey winner after helping with a cull and a couple of really handy syndicate birds (SWBC formed a syndicate a while back run by Ces, into which we all put $100 per year to buy good birds which are then bred from and the chicks are drawn out by raffle to each synicate share owner until each member has received a baby - this has been a really good way to get access to some pretty special lines like Garry Gazzard etc without spending thousands of dollars doing so). AND I think the few birds that I've just bought from Jan McMahon (latest additions) will really add something too judging by the dominant pieds that the dilute dom pied hen has bred.

 

My Lacewings originally come from Lynn Ray stock. She apparently had top class lacewings but had to quit them due to bird breeders lung disease. One lone cock combined with a couple of pet shop quality hens (which came out of a texas clearbody cock of Sharon House's) plus a couple of very tidy cocks from Ces' lines built up what I've got today - and I'm mighty proud of them.

 

The fallows are Ian Hanington and Len Vinci original stock but by God they are hard going. They don't seem to thrive or breed well - particularly the Len Vinci lines....... sigh.

 

Clearwings, which I only bought in '07, came from the partnership of Geoff O'Connor and Brian Turner. Not sure if they are still a partnership though as I saw Geoff's birds at Tassie doing reasonably well (and without the Turner in the name).

 

So a little history on the G&G stud........ sorry went rambling off there.

 

 

 

no its great that you did

now i can see that i have a way better foot in the door with my birds than i thought

(not only the birds i got from you)

i have been helped with getting some really good cocks from some( in my opinion) good breeders

and my hens all come mainly from the one breeder and they are very reasonable hens considering you have to really breed your own hens to get any decent ones unless your very lucky or pay well enough

thats here in vic from my experience, but seriously all good breed birds came from years and years of forming good foundations and good planning , hard culling and back to scratch breedings from what i have seen

your posts are fantasticlly set out and you explain so much as you go

along with dave kaz lib and daz to name a few id say these posts with the breeding journals really do make for not only learnning but give an understanding to anyone whom may feel they want to get into breeding

as they can see the highs the lows the just plain bad luck some of us go through the frustration and the joy when we achive a wanted rezult

i say

jolly good show

to you all and keep up the good and interesting

and threads

thanks to all the people that put in and comunicate with hummor and spunk

it really does make for some good reading ,....gb :rofl:

Yep, I love reading your posts Nubbly - and the pics of your chicks are absolutely amazing! You have a real knack for explaining so well. I really look forward to your posts. :rofl:

wow nubbly5 that was very help fell as you will see i have not get the best birds but knowing how you stared i fell that sume novice will get birds like that one day so thank's

wow nubbly5 that was very help fell as you will see i have not get the best birds but knowing how you stared i fell that sume novice will get birds like that one day so thank's

 

shannon you have some rip snorters you just need to have a more put in place plan and you will get heaps more from your birds i noted latley you have planned a bit ahead this is what will help you

i would have loads of your birds if could

The Lacewing Lineup - First Round Lacewing Babies (kinda in order of age). The 2 last ones (on my hand are not yet out of the nest and the rest are either just into the nappy cage or still in the cabinet with their parents.

 

 

 

Also the young grey from my last post has just exited the nest and is looking better than I could have hoped. Here he is - you see how short he tail is at the moment - still very young.

 

Wow, let me say it again in case you missed it - WOW

My Lacewings originally come from Lynn Ray stock. She apparently had top class lacewings but had to quit them due to bird breeders lung disease. One lone cock combined with a couple of pet shop quality hens (which came out of a texas clearbody cock of Sharon House's) plus a couple of very tidy cocks from Ces' lines built up what I've got today - and I'm mighty proud of them.

 

Just to add a little more to the Lacewing history, since I get a mention. The Texas Clearbody side of the equation came from Peter Glassenbury (SA), that Clearbody was used in my Lacewing lines which orignated with E Kolfalvi (WA) who had some great Lacewings. Watch those pet shop quality birds you never know where they came from or what they are hiding.

My Lacewings originally come from Lynn Ray stock. She apparently had top class lacewings but had to quit them due to bird breeders lung disease. One lone cock combined with a couple of pet shop quality hens (which came out of a texas clearbody cock of Sharon House's) plus a couple of very tidy cocks from Ces' lines built up what I've got today - and I'm mighty proud of them.

 

Just to add a little more to the Lacewing history, since I get a mention. The Texas Clearbody side of the equation came from Peter Glassenbury (SA), that Clearbody was used in my Lacewing lines which orignated with E Kolfalvi (WA) who had some great Lacewings. Watch those pet shop quality birds you never know where they came from or what they are hiding.

 

I second that! The grey spangle Dodgey Bros hen I bought from a local petshop all those years ago was the foundation hen of my strongest family even though she looked like nothing much, there was a lot of really good stuff behind her.

wow nubbly5 that was very help fell as you will see i have not get the best birds but knowing how you stared i fell that sume novice will get birds like that one day so thank's

 

shannon you have some rip snorters you just need to have a more put in place plan and you will get heaps more from your birds i noted latley you have planned a bit ahead this is what will help you

i would have loads of your birds if could

 

 

thank's mate i will like to get all the birds now in to one line and breed for many year's with that but to do that i will have to do a lot of plan's to get the best babys to keep the line going

The Lacewing Lineup - First Round Lacewing Babies (kinda in order of age). The 2 last ones (on my hand are not yet out of the nest and the rest are either just into the nappy cage or still in the cabinet with their parents.

 

 

 

Also the young grey from my last post has just exited the nest and is looking better than I could have hoped. Here he is - you see how short he tail is at the moment - still very young.

 

 

 

WOW Nubbly I love to read your post too. Your babies are to lovely and that grey wow look at the head already

can i have sume of your lacewings thay have good df

very lovley nubbly

and that grey im with dave wow

Such stunning birds nubbly you must be so pleased with them all :fingerscrossed:

Such stunning birds nubbly you must be so pleased with them all :fingerscrossed:

 

 

Thanks jlee and all!

 

Yes I'm pretty pleased with them. There are others of course that aren't quite as good but overall I'd have to say it's a great breeding season so far and the quality of the chicks is strong right through instead of just that one or two standouts that I used to get before.

Outstanding birds nubbly. The Grey is magnificent and of course I love the Lacewings, especially how you have gotten some really dark marking on the wings as babies. Also, on first looking at them I thought the birds in the 2nd, 4th and 6th pictures were adult birds. It wasn't until looking again more closely that I realised they were all babies as advertised! Very nice.

Wonderful !!! W.A. is going to do well at the Nationals with your birds at selections G :fingerscrossed:

Outstanding birds nubbly. The Grey is magnificent and of course I love the Lacewings, especially how you have gotten some really dark marking on the wings as babies. Also, on first looking at them I thought the birds in the 2nd, 4th and 6th pictures were adult birds. It wasn't until looking again more closely that I realised they were all babies as advertised! Very nice.

 

 

Thanks Daryl & Kaz

 

That 4th baby is the one that had the feather disturbance when it was just fledging....... Can't notice it at all now.

Fascinating reading about the history of your lacewings Nubbly, especially given that we bought a HOUSE lacewing recently over birds from SA. Many of the names you mention, we know and it is odd that we thought we were introducing a new line to SA, when we are introducing a HOUSE line that has linkages to our members over here in SA.

 

But your birds are great (and you are doing very very well), and maybe, like the English linage uniqueness, ours in a state by state basis are more connected than first thought (as we pair 2 WA lacewings together...)

 

Really cool, knowing more of the history of people's studs and how they are connected.

 

We for one, breed all our WA birds together as a separate line because we believe that typically, they are connected via localised breeding (which sets them apart from other states) - sorry almost another topic...

 

I wonder how much local interaction goes into state breeding over the wider country links, given the cost to ship birds via air freight.

 

Mind you, it would be good to get another WA connected lacewing.... Split cock bird that has some size - greedy am I not?

 

All offers considered...

Fascinating reading about the history of your lacewings Nubbly, especially given that we bought a HOUSE lacewing recently over birds from SA. Many of the names you mention, we know and it is odd that we thought we were introducing a new line to SA, when we are introducing a HOUSE line that has linkages to our members over here in SA.

 

But your birds are great (and you are doing very very well), and maybe, like the English linage uniqueness, ours in a state by state basis are more connected than first thought (as we pair 2 WA lacewings together...)

 

Really cool, knowing more of the history of people's studs and how they are connected.

 

We for one, breed all our WA birds together as a separate line because we believe that typically, they are connected via localised breeding (which sets them apart from other states) - sorry almost another topic...

 

I wonder how much local interaction goes into state breeding over the wider country links, given the cost to ship birds via air freight.

 

Mind you, it would be good to get another WA connected lacewing.... Split cock bird that has some size - greedy am I not?

 

All offers considered...

 

You make some good points there about the thoughts that go into breeding and lines, however I am not sure i agree with your thoughts in regard to birds going interstate.

 

Quite often, some high quality breeders will send their birds interstate to auctions. The reasoning behind this, as far as I am aware, is that the buyers of the birds will be interstate, thus the breeders will not have to compete against their own birds to get to the nationals. PLease, if any of the best brreders on here disagree, correct me, but as I understand it, that is the thinking.

You make some good points there about the thoughts that go into breeding and lines, however I am not sure i agree with your thoughts in regard to birds going interstate.

 

Quite often, some high quality breeders will send their birds interstate to auctions. The reasoning behind this, as far as I am aware, is that the buyers of the birds will be interstate, thus the breeders will not have to compete against their own birds to get to the nationals. PLease, if any of the best brreders on here disagree, correct me, but as I understand it, that is the thinking.

 

yep, I hear you Dave...

 

I can only add that I was going on the comments of Nubbly when she mentions the SA influences in her lines (Nigel Tonkin and Peter Glastonbury - two excellent and accomplished SA breeders alongside other very notable WA breeders)

 

In my experience, all breeders KEEP their best birds.. but I'm not so sure that GOOD birds still don't often leave the State of their breeding origin. These could turn out to be potentially a different state competitor (slightly off topic from nubbly's excellent lacewing and breeding her line topic sorry)

given the cost to ship birds via air freight.

 

I wonder does this comment mean there is significant cost to ship birds interstate ? Because, I for one, do not believe that the average cost of 6 or more birds to be shipped interstate at a cost of around $50-80 total per box of birds AND averages out at maybe an increase per bird of around $5-10 extra on top of the birds initial cost....I do not believe that adds significantly at all to costs overall. That kind of money would never be seen by me as prohibitive at all nor deter me from buying interstate. Sorry if I have just taken a segment of what you had to say and enlarged upon it, but the phrase you used peaked my curiousity.

given the cost to ship birds via air freight.

 

I wonder does this comment mean there is significant cost to ship birds interstate ? Because, I for one, do not believe that the average cost of 6 or more birds to be shipped interstate at a cost of around $50-80 total per box of birds AND averages out at maybe an increase per bird of around $5-10 extra on top of the birds initial cost....I do not believe that adds significantly at all to costs overall. That kind of money would never be seen by me as prohibitive at all nor deter me from buying interstate. Sorry if I have just taken a segment of what you had to say and enlarged upon it, but the phrase you used peaked my curiousity.

 

yup - Kaz, was suggesting that as large as good old Australia is -- freight is cheap given we send birds so far and wide. We are not as far apart as we think thanks to globalisation, the new world economies, and a strengthening Australian dollar. mmmmm well, just read that as, freight is cheep, cheep (budgie sounds) :hooray:

When it comes to "good" birds, it is often hard to judge. We have had discussions on here about bloodlines and the like.

 

I once bought 2 birds off Cec Gearing, on one day. Looking at the birds, Kaz, Renee and I all thought that the blue bird (Caesar) looked better, however Cec said that the grey bird (Bruticus) had better bloodlines and would produce better birds. When good breeders breed so many good birds, even they cannot keep them all. I am sure that if Cec Gearing had of realised that the blue cock I bought off him was split for Ino, he would not have sold him. It was only that he threw an ino for me, I told Cec, and now Cec has bred his father again, resulting in more Ino's for Cec. Good birds do occassionally slip out as well - :hooray:

 

Oops, I feel like we are hijacking this thread.

No worries I LIKE disucssuion just like this one so unless Kaz gets testy and edits you guys out, please feel free to continue.

 

Personally I have always found (and I know I've said it befor too), that an average/good bird from a strong stud with years of strong breeding behind it, will most often produce way better than a fantastic bird from an average stud. I have worked on this principal now for a long time and I think it's paying off. For example some Henry George birds I bought at auction - one particular blue (from his well known and very well respected Cobalt line) arrived looking like someone had dug it out of a petshop. Now some might have been tempted to move it on, but considering it's bloodlines I gave it a whirl and thankfully I did. My normal green and grey green National reps from this year all came down from that bird.

 

Also re: buying from interstate. I find it an inconvenience at the worst and a great opportunity at best and think that more people should try and get birds from other states. I think this is particularly pertinant for WA as we have such a small pool of breeders and a strongly inbred group of birds (IMO) with some exceptions. There are few people I now feel I can purchase birds from in this state that I can further my stud with (not being pompous here). In reality Cec, Jeff and Gary are the only potentials and my stud is built around Cec birds with a tiny bit of Gary's thrown in. Jeff good birds are wonderful BUT..... (I won't tell tales) needless to say I don't have any here.

 

Sooooooo, Gary Gazzard birds have come in (via SW syndicate), Henry George birds have come in, Peter Glassenbury birds (rare varities) have come in, Ian Hanington birds have come in (fallows). All big names with very well respected studs and that's the way I'll keep going as I try to get other outcrosses, when I need them. I think though that I'll have to actually go in person to some studs in the east to try and buy what I want now...... Mind you I'm in a happy place and think I have the features (at least in the lacewings and normals) that I want so I'm content to just plug along with my own breeding program for a while now.