Hi All

 

 

I kinda noticed that there was no pinned information on French Moult and, although I have not done a topic search so might be asking the same question as someone else has before, I was just wondering what other people do about french moult when it rears it's ugly head.

 

When we moved into our new aviary I was so excited about the potential to breed and keep more birds only to be hit HARD by french moult. I believe that I had brought it in with some new birds I had purchased from east and as I had not ever seen it here before then assume my birds were in a lower immunity status as they had not been exposed for at least as long as I had had them. Well it was a complete disaster and 2006, when I would normally breed around 150 chicks saw a total of about 30 come out before I stopped them and emptied out. Not all of these recovered and I culled about 2/3 of them.

 

Over the last few years since then all has been pretty quiet on the FM front until I bought some more birds at auction, they went home with someone else and when I picked them up I noticed they had a number of runners - S*%T. Now at the very end of my season I am getting FM back in again. Luckily I will be shut down from now until September so will give them all a chance to stop shedding virus. Do a big disinfecting clean up (which I do at the end and start of a breeding season anyway) and have big fingers crossed that all is sweet again for a few years.

 

What are other breeders experiences with this very annoying and sometimes devestating virus?

I hate it.

 

I have had a few french moult birds before, some mild cases and some serious cases. The serious case birds can never fly.

Here are 2 of my old birds (passed away) that were beleived to have serious french moult or pbfd

 

their beaks grow so fast and exceedingly long that I had to trim them every 3 days. They live a terrible life, claws grow so long and they can never fly. Eventually I had them put to sleep, it was for the best.

 

I have not had french moult latley which is an excellent thing. The parents that produced the chicks were never bred again. I'm not sure if its genetic or not and theirs a huge debate about it but I never want any fm chicks again so I will do what ever necessary to stop it.

I hate french moult.

 

You can see they live a terrible life. Barley any feathers or anything.

Edited April 14, 200916 yr by Pearce

Well both FM and PBFD have been identified as being caused by virus' (Polyoma & Circovirus respecively) but I guess the big question is which birds remain as carriers - sheeding virus as they go or do birds recover and build an immune response to the virus as humans do to the common cold and flu virus'?

I think pbfd is genetic and it can spread through the air to other birds. I'm really not sure about french moult.

I have never had french moult (touch wood) so I guess I have been lucky so far

Umm no not spread genetically (as in via the genes of parent birds to the offspring) expect for the fact that some types of birds are unaffected so I suppose "genetically" they are not suceptabile to the virus. PBFD is cuased by a member of the Circovirus' it has actually been identified as the causative agent.

 

This from AvianBiotech.com

"Psittacine Beak and Feather Disease - The virus causing this disease is a member of the Circoviridae.

Transmission of the virus from one individual to another is primarily through direct contact, inhalation or ingestion of aerosols, crop-feeding, infected fecal material, and feather dust. The virus can also be transmitted via contaminated surfaces such as bird carriers, feeding formula, utensils, food dishes, clothing, and nesting materials. The viral particles, if not destroyed can remain viable in the environment for months, long after the infected bird is gone."

I've had a few moulters from time to time.

 

I believe it is a virus. I believe it can be transmitted by infected birds, their droppings, dust and feather dander, and I believe that it may also be transmitted through the vectors of feather mites, sandflies and mosquitos too. Something I have noticed is that it can be transmitted from one nest box to another by contact on your hands! So wash your hands with dettol disinfectant, and dry them with disposable paper towel between nest boxes too.

 

Stop breeding for a few months to let all your birds become immune to it, spray them all, and all their surrounds for mites, disinfect everything and go again. I think it depends on the severity and type of infection they have. I think there may be a few different strains of virus that cause varying degrees of severity with different virulence, and also depends on the individual immunity of your birds. There can be cross infection from or to birds coming into or going out of aviaries.

 

Most mildly affected birds recover if given the chance. More severely affected birds sometimes recover, but depends on the individual bird. Up to you.

 

In normal circumstances I don't use birds that have been affected by it to continue breeding. But I will use an unaffected bird from a nest of moulters to continue breeding with, because it is the strong unaffected survivor. Mostly I have good results with choosing the healthy ones to continue breeding with, and less troubles later on with those lines because I think they are immune.

We don't have french moult in New Zealand, so I don't have to worry about it.

 

I know I have said this a thousand times before, but I will repeat it again:

 

French moult IS a virus and is known as the polyomavirus.

PBFD is a circovirus as Nubbly stated earlier.

These viruses are believed to be transmitted by dust, dander and faeces and infects all age groups. In French moult visually unaffected birds can carry it and shed it to other birds. It is seen mainly in chicks because they become infected when they are growing new feathers and thus it affects their feather growth. Adults do not show so many symptoms because they are not growing new feathers at the time of infection and are able to either clear the infection or set up immunity to the virus if I remember correctly.

Edited April 14, 200916 yr by Sailorwolf

No FM in New Zealand........ wow that would be great.

No FM in New Zealand........ wow that would be great.

COLD weather must be the answer

 

 

Making plans to house budgies in an IGLOO :yellowhead:

Edited April 17, 200916 yr by KAZ

Well I've read Bob Smith's website with great interest and he has determined that FM is more prevalent when there's the presence of lice. He treats the parents and the chicklings before they've even got feathers. He says since he started doing this he hasn't had and outbreaks.

 

Here's what he says:

 

French Moult

 

You would be wondering why I use so much Ivermectin on my birds. As mentioned I own a microscope. A couple of years ago I was checking a French Moult chick’s feathers and found it was full of feather mite. In the same nest there was a normal chick which had hardly any mite on it or the parents. I proceeded to go to another nest which had two French Moult chicks and one good bird. As in the first nest the French Moult birds had mite and the good bird had very few so I administered a dose of Ivermectin to all birds in the stud and I thought that would fix the mite problem. After checking the birds each day for four days (the mite took four days to die) I thought that was it. A week later I decided to check the French Moult birds again and to my amazement I discovered they were covered with mite again. I repeated the process and to this day I do not have any mite in my aviary and so far touch wood I do not have any French Moult birds. I have set myself four years to examine the birds to see if there is a connection between French Moult and feather mite. I know that a lot of knowledgeable people in the hobby say that French Moult is a virus. I was speaking to Jeff Attwood from England at the Nationals in Caloundra and he informed me that there is a lot of opinion in the UK which suggests that French Moult is not a virus. After discussing my findings with a few people in the hobby they sent me feathers from French Moult young ones and they also had feather mite. I believe you have to break this cycle in the mite. That is why I believe inside of seven days you must repeat your program again.

Edited April 17, 200916 yr by renee

Had no signs of feather lice or red mite during my first horrible experience with FM.

 

French Moult has been proven in quite a number of peer reviewed journals to be a virus read here:

http://www.euronet.nl/users/hnl/french.htm

 

BUT I would assume if there was a challenge on the birds immune system (maybe by an over burden of feather lice/mites whatever

????) then they would be less able to build a good immune response to a virus like FM.

Edited April 17, 200916 yr by nubbly5

Had no signs of feather lice or red mite during my first horrible experience with FM.

 

French Moult has been proven in quite a number of peer reviewed journals to be a virus read here:

http://www.euronet.nl/users/hnl/french.htm

 

BUT I would assume if there was a challenge on the birds immune system (maybe by an over burden of feather lice????) then they would be less able to build a good immune response to a virus like FM.

 

Well I give my birds S76 for Worms, Lice and Mites once a month- typically in the week before showing (in fact they're on it right now :yellowhead: ) but after reading the article again I've decided to give them all another treatment early next week.

Interesting subject - each breeder has there own story and reason why we get French moult. I beleive that all birds are exposed the virus to some extent, particularly when there immunity is not fully developed. Each time i have had French moult it's occurred towards the end of the breeding season, maybe the birds natural immunity is low????????? The next season no french moult, season after that maybe the odd chick with french moult, and it seems to repeat in this cycle over 5-6 years.

 

My last bad period was late 2006, i had the best season numbers wise, but the last 20 -30 chicks were extremely badly affected and most had to be destroyed. I didnt start breeding for 7 months after this and the last 2 years have been FM free.

 

The other point to all this is "do we breed with birds that have FM"??????????? Normally they are the best feathered birds, which i guess must place strain on there immunity system when developing.

 

I'm not sure about Bob' theory regarding mites, mine are treated similar to Renee and i still seem to get FM.

Hey Heathrow sounds very much the same pattern as here.

 

I also treat regularly for lice and mites and still have a bit of FM at the end of this breeding season. I did not have mite present at the time of my huge first FM outbreak.

 

From my 2006 birds I had substantial number of FM's and most of them I have culled but the few that recovered fully (regrew all flights and tails) I kept and have bred from probably all of them since then (only ended up with 10 or so birds from 2006 season). I have not noticed any more or less FM from them. No FM at all since 2006 and only when I brought birds home from a friends aviary that had a few runners that I got some again this year, yes it's at the end of the season but I have a feeling that if I had brought those birds in early in the season it would have happened then but I'll never realy know. Happened with nests from birds never affected by FM (2007 & early 2008 parents) as well as one nest that had a 2006 parent.

 

The whole mite theory is an interesting one in respect to the fact that I bet he never looked at the feather when there was no FM present. I assume that mites would have been present then too but no-one seems to have a handle on what is present in a normal (healthy) situation, just jump to unproven conclusions that mites are present when there is FM so therefore they MUST cause it - sheesh..... that's the difference between science and heresay.

My October and November chicks were affected last year and yes at that time I did notice some lice and treated them all with S76.

FRENCH MOULT IS A VIRUS.

 

It was discovered to be a virus right here in Western Australia in the late 1980's by Murdoch University. I personally made many french moult affected birds available to them for study. After lengthy study of the virus they also developed a vaccine but was prohibitively expensive. No vaccine was ever made publicly available and I am unsure if any study still continues at Murdoch. There was, and may still be a study being done in the UK backed by the BS of UK.

 

As for my own personal managment system, I don't really worry a whole lot about PBFD. I keep and breed with affected birds but with exceptions. Those that are affected to the degree that they are almost naked I give away to folks for pets or put down humainly as these birds usually suffer when the cold weather hits. Surprising these little featherless runners can be extremely hardy and have been known to make very good pets. I have bred from PBFD affected birds that have in turn bred no PBFD and then again some have. It depends on wether they are shedding the virus at the time of breeding. The studies have shown that birds can build up immunities to various diseases. I believe in keeping PBFD affected birds in the main avairies with the rest of the breeding stock. It builds immunity.

 

Whilst breeding if any nest show the slightest hint of PBFD it will then be marked and will be the last nest to be checked. Any pairing that has PBFD in the background is also marked and moved to the later end of the line for inspection.

 

In regards to the Bob Smith article. I too have read it. My opinion is that mites, lice etc have nothing to do with cause of PBFD in the true sense. What they can do is help with transmission. What the article seems to do is target the mite as a cause rather than an insect doing what most insects do and that is behave naturally. Bob does not say what type of mite it is but I suppose we can assume red mite. He also states that mites were found on the non affected chick. I suggest that red mites being predatory in nature as well as opportunistic has covered the PBFD chick far easier because the chick is weakened and can not fight off mites as would a healthy chick. Having minimal coverage of feathers also allows the mites easier access to swarm over the body of the affected chick where as it is harder to get to the skin when the mite has to navigate through a dense maze of feathers.

 

Anybody who has outside aviaries will no doubt get mites and lice. Wild populations of dove etc are riddled with them. I kept white racing pigeons for a release business and I was forever spraying them for lice.

Edited April 18, 200916 yr by RIPbudgies

I believe the lice and mites may be one of many vectors for transmitting the french moult and other viruses.

 

(A bit like the disease malaria is caused by a protozoan parasite infection, but transmitted through the vector of mosquitos)

No FM in New Zealand........ wow that would be great.

COLD weather must be the answer

 

 

Making plans to house budgies in an IGLOO

 

 

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :hug: i love you kaz you make me smile always

igloo :rofl: :thanks:

No FM in New Zealand........ wow that would be great.

COLD weather must be the answer

 

 

Making plans to house budgies in an IGLOO

I'm sorry to tell that FM is in Scandinavia too, and it isn't that hot here... But an igloo for you would be great! You can take photos and show us so we can laugh without mention it.

We don't have french moult in New Zealand, so I don't have to worry about it.

 

Hate to be the bearer of bad news sailorwolf but we most certainly do have french moult in New Zealand. Recently the Auckland zoo was trying to establish a colony of budgies at the zoo, did serological testing on a hundred birds, all of which came back positive for PBFD.

 

I had french moult in my aviary in New Zealand in 2007, haven't had it since but I have been to many breeders houses at home with runners all over the floor. So I think New Zealand has it just as bad as Australia.

 

Interestingly I was listening to a lecture about veterinary treatment of wildlife recently, the Veterinarian talked about treating lorikeets which came in as runners (ie. they had french moult). At the moment they are euthenaised, but he said that there has been research that has come out recently suggesting that french moult and PBFD are endemic in the wild bird populations, and the recovered birds will just be carriers like everyone else, so, long term, I think they were looking at keeping the runners and rehabing the ones that were lucky enough to recover from the virus and ultimately release them.

 

Interesting approach, and interesting that it is endemic. I would be interested in running some tests on the budgies at my place just for curiosity sake.

Hi, We have recently had our first babies hatched. One died and the other doesn't fly. His name is Worzel and he has been out of the nesting box for 2 weeks. He is very small and today i was told he has French Moult. I was told to take him out of the aviary and keep him separate from other budgies as he is contagious. After reading the Q&A I am wondering if it is safe to put him back with his parents? Other than treating for mites is there anything else he needs to treat this. And we live in New Zealand, so it is here.

well i have breed one or 2 fm's in 2009 and i bye fm budgie add 95% have recover i have breed fm and thay have not breed any fm for me yet

 

i dont know but i dont think it is not that bad i have got one runing in the aviary

I have had my 1st case of french moult this season, I had 4 pairs left in the breeding boxes at the end of the breeding season and I normally do not breed this late, I think Heaths right in the way that the birds immune system is down.

These birds come from no french moult at all unless it is 4 or 5 generations ago.

Anyway out of the 4 nest, one nest had 2 babies one with french moult and one normal and they had 2 foster babies and they were normal . nest 2 the same, nest 3 had 3 babies that were theirs and 2 babies fostered, the 3 babies that had it were the parents and the fosters were normal and nest 4 had 2 babies and 1 fostered , their 2 babies got it and the foster one didn't.

 

Anyway I now have a microscope once things get sorted I will start checking the feathers for problems etc. will report on what I find.