I've been going through the colours and breeding expectations table and it made me wonder about a pair of Lutinos I had when I was younger.

They were buttercup Lutinos I brought from a breeder I used to buy a lot of birds from back then and I paired them together and they raised several successful clutches for me.

In their 2nd clutch one of their babies was a yellow face blue normal cock.

A beautiful bird I kept him until he died, only keeping a few of his Lutino siblings but reading through the above mentioned topics I was wondering how it was possible for him to come out of this pair?

Edited April 11, 200916 yr by Linda_S

both parents would have been split for blue, one of them having the yellowface gene or both of them.

Were you colony breeding or cabinet breeding?

 

Its unlikely that two lutino's could produce anything other than lutinos, so i suspect either your hen mated with another cock that you werent aware of or one of the parents (likely then hen) was not actually a lutino.

By buttercup lutino do you mean yellowface albino?

If this is the case then yf blues are possible. because albino is blue series.

By buttercup I was just reffering to the shade of yellow, it was what the breeder told me their colour was and I have seen the term on other sites too.

I'm pretty sure that they were not colony bred in the intance where they produced the yellow face blue normal cock.

I'm also pretty sure they were both Lutino, all yellow, red eyes, no markings.......Lutino.

As I said I was very surprised when they turned up with this guy in their nest. I suppose it could be possible that she mated with another of my birds before I put her in the breeding cage, I can't remember if he was the oldest of that batch or not (over 10 yrs ago) but if so he was much better quality bird than his siblings and the lutinos were my only show quality birds at the time.

 

So more than likely the Lutino hen had a romantic evening with another bird before I seperated her into her breeding cage?

Were they really bright yellow (deep and vivid, like bright yellow paint)? If they were more "buttercup" like a softer yellow, they were probably actually creamino... which makes a lot of sense why they would have a YF baby, but not sure about what you would expect all their other babies to look like.

I beleive its still possible for a lutino and lutino to produce yf blue chicks?

Both parents would have needed to be split for the blue gene. And one of them would need the yellowface gene. Ino's Can mask other genes so I beleive this to be quite possible. Can anyone confirm?

Deep yellow, yellow paint. From what I was told by others and from what I've read on other sites (may not be true) buttercup yellow is supposed to reffer to the deep/dark yellow colouration.

 

All other offspring from this pair were Lutino.

 

The yellow face blue cock didn't seem to like girls so he never bred or produced any offspring.

Edited April 11, 200916 yr by Linda_S

Oh okay - I think you're right then- I was thinking buttercup would be a more buttery colour like creamino but now that you point it out - of course, buttercup the flower is very bright. So they probably were lutino.. how cool! I love unexpected surprises.

I beleive its still possible for a lutino and lutino to produce yf blue chicks?

Both parents would have needed to be split for the blue gene. And one of them would need the yellowface gene. Ino's Can mask other genes so I beleive this to be quite possible. Can anyone confirm?

 

Two ino parents can only produce ino chicks. There is no other possibility. Though they may have been YF albinos in this case (meaning they are blue, not split for blue), and they may be passing on any number of mutations with the YF, yet they will remain ino's. Ino is a sex linked gene which masks all other genes bar yellowface, cinnamon and to some degree, violet (i am told).

 

The likely reason for the YF blue chick is that the hen had a romp with another cock prior to laying.

okay so an ino and an ino will pass on all genes but the ino gene will mask them all? so all chicks will be visual ino's?

Yep ino to ino gives you ino's - no normals BUT 2x lutinos can produce a YF albino if they are both split for blue and one is carrying YF (hidden by the bright yellow lutino colour).

 

If they bred a normal then it was either an extra marital affair or (like I do sometimes) change eggs and/or chicks around and then forget to record them....... doh! Leaving me scratching my head as to which one where was the emergency swap out.

Can a lutino mask spangle? Or any other dominant gene?

It doesn't matter what mutations the lutino's were masking they could not produce a normal chick. If a pair of lutinos were both split for blue and one was masking yellow face you could only get lutinos, albinos and yellow face albinos. The chick you remember must have had at least one different parent or one of your yellow birds was not a lutino

Yes a lutino can mask any coloured gene. If you have a dominant pied lutino how do you tell? Only when you pair it to get normals will you be able to see what it is masking.

Thanks very much for that Nubbly5

Ino is a sex linked gene, which means that it is a recessive gene on the X chromosome. Therefore 2 birds that are visually ino can not produce any other colouring in their chicks, because there is nowhere for a non-ino gene to be carried.

Either the hen mated with another bird, or both of your birds were not lutinos. However judging by the rest of the clutch they probably were.

Two Inos cannot breed a Normal under usual circumstances. If the hen strayed another cock could have been the father. Another but very very rare occourance is a back mutation.