I think SW is probably referring to the failure to thrive and health problems associated with babies from crest/crest nests, this is the reason that crest/crest-bred or crest/non-crestbred are the recommended pairings

I think SW is probably referring to the failure to thrive and health problems associated with babies from crest/crest nests, this is the reason that crest/crest-bred or crest/non-crestbred are the recommended pairings

Is this a certainty or documented or just one of those urban legend things ? Reason I ask is I have seen crested to crested and they are thriving, so perhaps it isnt a given definite that those things happen ?

I don't think anything is really a definate when is comes to crested Kaz. You tend to lose alot of size on crested unless you cross them out to good non cresteds anyway so the way I see it crest to crest isn't really worth it anyway

I don't think anything is really a definate when is comes to crested Kaz. You tend to lose alot of size on crested unless you cross them out to good non cresteds anyway so the way I see it crest to crest isn't really worth it anyway

Totally agree with you there

Years ago , I bred crests , I purchased them from Frank Jefferies on the North Shore , I bred Crest to Crest and multiple times to increase the number of crests in the flock . I never encounted the lethal factor , I believe its a myth. From these Crests I then bred them all to normals to get the crestbred birds , Like the Recessive Varieties you have to keep the size in the bird to maintain the show quality and this comes from the normals , The bird is always judged first , then the crest.

In my short experience I would say the most challenging variety to breed was good variety Clearwings to Show budgie size.

 

From what I have experienced and seen, many of the larger birds have very dirty wing markings while the well marked Clearwings are pet shop size.

 

I suspect the same goes for Black Eyed Clears, though I'll never try breeding those!

In my short experience I would say the most challenging variety to breed was good variety Clearwings to Show budgie size.

 

From what I have experienced and seen, many of the larger birds have very dirty wing markings while the well marked Clearwings are pet shop size.

 

I suspect the same goes for Black Eyed Clears, though I'll never try breeding those!

 

Have to agree with you there , clearwings and show size just doesnt seem to mix.

What happens to baby crests if you breed them? Are they more prone to health defects? Like feather dusters?

No, there are some who think they may have immunity type issues or something similiar, making them more prone to becoming ill and simply not thriving as youngsters, resulting in nest losses.

okay thanks very much.

Can anyone confirm that this bird is a japaneese helicopter crest?

 

 

What about saddleback, is it rare.

A lethal factor is when for some reason the animal cannot survive normally and dies.

Lethal factor occurs when an animal is a double factor in a certain gene. Often when an animal is double factored in a lethal gene they die before they develop (in some genetics they are born, but cannot live) Examples of the lethal factor are Frame Overo White Syndrome in horses where the foal is born white, it is a double factor frame overo, and has no nerves leading to its intestines and thus it dies a few hours after birth.

In chinchillas one example of a lethal gene (they have 3) is 2 brown velvets mating together. A double factor brown velvet chinchilla can not exist because (I think) it dies, or does not reach full development before birth.

 

Lethal factors in crested may work in that the bird dies before development so that you are left with more clear eggs or dead in shell eggs in a crested to crested mating, resulting in a smaller clutch of viable young. That way you wouldn't actually experience them.

 

The reason why I think it is lethal is that the crested gene does not carry the necessary function for life, but as long as it has another normal gene there along side it it can still carry out the necessary function. When there are 2 of the lethal genes, there is no gene that can carry out the necessary function and so the chick dies.

 

This is all from the top of my head and may not be completely accurate, but it is food for thought.

 

For instance if you bred a crested to a crested you would get: (theorising)

 

25% DF crested (lethal factor, these die before they hatch or develop etc. etc.)

50% SF crested (normal crested)

25% normals

 

So you would only see 66% cresteds in a clutch and 33% normals as the DF cresteds wouldn't make it far enough to make up clutch numbers.

 

To the breeders of crested budgies, does this seem about right?

 

Haha Pearce I like the Crested you posted, he's funny.

Edited February 8, 200916 yr by Sailorwolf

As I said earlier I've never seen the value of a crested/crested pairing but the theory works for me. In a hen may lay 8 eggs with only five or six being viable a breeder may not even notice. Similiar genes exist in many species, an example I know of is the bobtail boxer(as opposed to the ones that have their tails docked which is now illegal in Aus), you shouldn't breed bobtail to bobtail as the gene is lethal in the double form so bobtails are always bred to a normal tailed dog.

Years ago , I bred crests , I purchased them from Frank Jefferies on the North Shore , I bred Crest to Crest and multiple times to increase the number of crests in the flock . I never encounted the lethal factor , I believe its a myth. From these Crests I then bred them all to normals to get the crestbred birds , Like the Recessive Varieties you have to keep the size in the bird to maintain the show quality and this comes from the normals , The bird is always judged first , then the crest.

I agree with you about the lethal factor being a myth, however my experience is with crested canaries. Some of our crested paired up in the aviary crest to crest...worst it did was sometimes we got a bird with a double crest.

What happens to baby crests if you breed them? Are they more prone to health defects? Like feather dusters?

Baby crests ??

For instance if you bred a crested to a crested you would get: (theorising)25% DF crested (lethal factor, these die before they hatch or develop etc. etc.)50% SF crested (normal crested)25% normalsSo you would only see 66% cresteds in a clutch and 33% normals as the DF cresteds wouldn't make it far enough to make up clutch numbers.To the breeders of crested budgies, does this seem about right?

I get birds with double crests...about 25% and NO FATALITIES.

Edited February 8, 200916 yr by KAZ

As I said earlier I've never seen the value of a crested/crested pairing but the theory works for me. In a hen may lay 8 eggs with only five or six being viable a breeder may not even notice.

 

Thats a bold statement , Id like to see your pratical breeding theroies behind it, and as for a breeder not knowing if the final eggs dont hatch due to the double up than your really clutching at straws, truth is if any serious breeder has a nest of more than 5 eggs you would be looking a moving them around to increase the chance of hatching . There are many reasons why eggs dont hatch , even normals lose eggs.

The bird in the picture has a multiple double up on the crested factor , crests can apear anywhere on the bird but its up to the show breeder to concentrate on the birds that conform to the standard.

There are many ways to breed crests , I know a guy that sucessfully breeds them in a flock situation with good results.

Everyone to their own.

Years ago , I bred crests , I purchased them from Frank Jefferies on the North Shore , I bred Crest to Crest and multiple times to increase the number of crests in the flock . I never encounted the lethal factor , I believe its a myth. From these Crests I then bred them all to normals to get the crestbred birds , Like the Recessive Varieties you have to keep the size in the bird to maintain the show quality and this comes from the normals , The bird is always judged first , then the crest.

I agree with you about the lethal factor being a myth, however my experience is with crested canaries. Some of our crested paired up in the aviary crest to crest...worst it did was sometimes we got a bird with a double crest.

What happens to baby crests if you breed them? Are they more prone to health defects? Like feather dusters?

Baby crests ??

For instance if you bred a crested to a crested you would get: (theorising)25% DF crested (lethal factor, these die before they hatch or develop etc. etc.)50% SF crested (normal crested)25% normalsSo you would only see 66% cresteds in a clutch and 33% normals as the DF cresteds wouldn't make it far enough to make up clutch numbers.To the breeders of crested budgies, does this seem about right?

I get birds with double crests...about 25% and NO FATALITIES.

 

Hi, I meant like if you breed a crest male to a crest hen, would the chicks be more likley to get diseases and die, I did not mean breeding the babies.

I get birds with double crests...about 25% and NO FATALITIES.

 

Are these Canaries or budgies? If it is canaries, the crested gene may not be lethal for them in double factor.

And do you not get fatalities because maybe the chick just didn't develop in the first place?

 

Also could there possibly be 2 types of crested alleles and/or genes existing at different loci on different chromosomes?

 

It is quite an interesting topic.

 

The manx gene is also lethal in double factor. If you breed 2 manx cat's together 25% of the kittens will have spina bifida <- these are the double factor manx cats.

Edited February 8, 200916 yr by Sailorwolf

I wasn't stating that as fact I was simply saying that it MAY be one cause of clear eggs. As I said quite clearly, personally I have never seen the value of that kind of pairing anyway simply from a size stance so I steated from the outset that I had no personal experience with it

Edited February 8, 200916 yr by melbournebudgies

I get birds with double crests...about 25% and NO FATALITIES.

 

Are these Canaries or budgies? Canaries

 

If it is canaries, the crested gene may not be lethal for them in double factor. The same thing is said about crest to crest in canaries so the gene works the same. However i dont have fatalities as suggested.

And do you not get fatalities because maybe the chick just didn't develop in the first place? Pie in the sky...who will ever know ? But all eggs hatch

Also could there possibly be 2 types of crested alleles and/or genes existing at different loci on different chromosomes?

 

It is quite an interesting topic.

 

The manx gene is also lethal in double factor. If you breed 2 manx cat's together 25% of the kittens will have spina bifida <- these are the double factor manx cats.

 

 

Also said that there is a lethal gene breeding DF violets. I also have done this and no lethal gene is evident. Another breeder regularly breeds DF violets.

Edited February 8, 200916 yr by KAZ

Well either:

1. The Crested lethal factor is a myth in canaries

2.You have just been lucky so far in that no DF crested cannaries have developed in your clutches where all eggs have hatched. The Mendelian ratios are very rarely perfect in real life.

3. The canary lethal gene may actually work differently than other lethal genes, as in it appears differently.

4. There is more than 1 type of crested gene.

5. The lethal factor may have applied to another crested type that is not bred now.

 

However lethal genes do exist in the world as I said above in the Overo Lethal White Syndrome and the Manx cat and brown velvet chinchillas and as MB said the Bobtail boxers.

 

If I understand it correctly:

I think the lethal gene can go as far as an egg may not even develop in the first place. Lethal genes just mean that when an animal has both, something in its development will prevent it from surviving in the world or developing properly. This can mean it can die at the 1 cell stage, 8 cell stage, embryonic stage, foetal stage, when it is born or when it is going through puberty.

There is one in sheep in that they can't be exposed to sunlight, so for outdoors it is a lethal gene, but for farmers that house their sheep inside it is not really lethal.

Lethal gene doesn't mean it will die from those genes, but it can produce a situation in which survival is unlikely. Such as a spina bifida manx cat. It won't die from spina bifida, but it will die from starvation.

Edited February 8, 200916 yr by Sailorwolf

once we work this out , we can move onto the worlds problems !

Well either:

1. The Crested lethal factor is a myth in canaries

2.You have just been lucky so far in that no DF crested cannaries have developed in your clutches where all eggs have hatched. The Mendelian ratios are very rarely perfect in real life.

3. The canary lethal gene may actually work differently than other lethal genes, as in it appears differently.

4. There is more than 1 type of crested gene.

5. The lethal factor may have applied to another crested type that is not bred now.

 

However lethal genes do exist in the world as I said above in the Overo Lethal White Syndrome and the Manx cat and brown velvet chinchillas and as MB said the Bobtail boxers.

 

I think the lethal gene can go as far as an egg may not even develop in the first place. Lethal genes just mean that when an animal has both, something in its development will prevent it from surviving in the world or developing properly. This can mean it can die at the 1 cell stage, 8 cell stage, embryonic stage, foetal stage, when it is born or when it is going through puberty.

There is one in sheep in that they can't be exposed to sunlight, so for outdoors it is a lethal gene, but for farmers that house their sheep inside it is not really lethal.

Lethal gene doesn't mean it will die from those genes, but it can produce a situation in which survival is unlikely. Such as a spina bifida manx cat. It won't die from spina bifida, but it will die from starvation.

 

 

DF crested you would describe how ? Wouldnt a canary with a crest on top of its head and one on the back of its neck be a DF crested ?

Edited February 8, 200916 yr by KAZ

Well either:

1. The Crested lethal factor is a myth in canaries

2.You have just been lucky so far in that no DF crested cannaries have developed in your clutches where all eggs have hatched. The Mendelian ratios are very rarely perfect in real life.

3. The canary lethal gene may actually work differently than other lethal genes, as in it appears differently.

4. There is more than 1 type of crested gene.

5. The lethal factor may have applied to another crested type that is not bred now.

 

However lethal genes do exist in the world as I said above in the Overo Lethal White Syndrome and the Manx cat and brown velvet chinchillas and as MB said the Bobtail boxers.

 

I think the lethal gene can go as far as an egg may not even develop in the first place. Lethal genes just mean that when an animal has both, something in its development will prevent it from surviving in the world or developing properly. This can mean it can die at the 1 cell stage, 8 cell stage, embryonic stage, foetal stage, when it is born or when it is going through puberty.

There is one in sheep in that they can't be exposed to sunlight, so for outdoors it is a lethal gene, but for farmers that house their sheep inside it is not really lethal.

Lethal gene doesn't mean it will die from those genes, but it can produce a situation in which survival is unlikely. Such as a spina bifida manx cat. It won't die from spina bifida, but it will die from starvation.

 

 

DF crested you would describe how ? Wouldnt a canary with a crest on top of its head and one on the back of its neck be a DF crested ?

 

Yes

can i say something.....

CAN I HAVE SOME MORE CHAMPAINE lol man you guy can get caty rrrrrrawl lol

 

 

that violet thing is bollacks i breed violets as does kazzy no probs our end and very good out come and colour we just begining but two years and no show of any whatever it is thats supose to defect the colour or gene

 

most times people just dont know what their birds true colour or genetics are whn it comes to violets and 1 factor df and all that jazz

hardest bird to breed i belive is a violet fellow pied but im working on it

Edited February 8, 200916 yr by GenericBlue

can i say something.....

CAN I HAVE SOME MORE CHAMPAINE lol man you guy can get caty rrrrrrawl lol

 

 

that violet thing is bollacks i breed violets as does kazzy no probs our end and very good out come and colour we just begining but two years and no show of any whatever it is thats supose to defect the colour or gene

 

most times people just dont know what their birds true colour or genetics are whn it comes to violets and 1 factor df and all that jazz

hardest bird to breed i belive is a violet fellow pied but im working on it

 

LOL, Well if your settling in , then im making a coffee!