What is a good pro biotic to use after/during antibiotic use??

 

I want to give something to my show birds as i am worried about damaging their gizzard with the antibiotics. They are 3 weeks through their treatment and have 3 weeks to go.

Edited January 7, 200916 yr by KAZ

Yoghurt? Yakult?

Are you doing the Doxy treatment?

 

If so, Gary always recommends that we give the birds 1 day off per week and on that day they should get greens.

 

I've haven't heard that antibiotics damage the gizzard .... I'd be interested in the thoughts of other experienced members.

Its not doxy, I am using Chlortetracycline which does the same as doxy, but can be bought without prescription.

 

(for anyone who doesn't know, i am treating all the 19 new birds from WA with antibiotics to ensure there are no Psittacosis carriers amongst them, as they came from many different places and breeders. If one is a carrier, they could kill all the others very quickly with the disease. Under normal quarantine conditions, all birds from different places are to be quarantined in separate cages. This was not possible in my case because of air travel etc. )

 

I like the idea of giving a day off with greens etc. (i hate antibiotics and i feel bad every day i give it to them)

Its not doxy, I am using Chlortetracycline which does the same as doxy, but can be bought without prescription.

 

(for anyone who doesn't know, i am treating all the 19 new birds from WA with antibiotics to ensure there are no Psittacosis carriers amongst them, as they came from many different places and breeders. If one is a carrier, they could kill all the others very quickly with the disease. Under normal quarantine conditions, all birds from different places are to be quarantined in separate cages. This was not possible in my case because of air travel etc. )

 

I like the idea of giving a day off with greens etc. (i hate antibiotics and i feel bad every day i give it to them)

Liv you're doing the right thing by treating them all.

 

How long should the Chlortetracycline treatment last?

How long should the Chlortetracycline treatment last?

 

45 days (6 weeks)

How long should the Chlortetracycline treatment last?

 

45 days (6 weeks)

 

Then I'd definitely give them one day off a week with water and greens.

cool. will do that

I agree with Renee's advice :bluebudgie:

I use probac soluable I buy it from Hunters in Shepp they sell all sorts of stuff but my first tub I bought from my vet which cost me an extra $10.

Probac Soluble $39.00 this is the price from hunters as they have a lot of pigeon products

 

Use: Concentrated Multi Strain Avian Probiotic

Dose: 1/2tsp/2 litres or 1/2tsp/1kg seed

Quantity: 200ml

 

It last a while the one from vetafarm is a lot smaller, I use this when the birds are under stress and after antibiotics

I use probac soluable I buy it from Hunters in Shepp they sell all sorts of stuff but my first tub I bought from my vet which cost me an extra $10.

 

I use this when the birds are under stress and after antibiotics

 

So do antibiotics damage the gizzard?

No I believe it's surpose to balance things out. there are articles out saying that are birds should get probotic more often

No I believe it's surpose to balance things out. there are articles out saying that are birds should get probotic more often

 

Now that's interesting.

 

How can I get hold of these articles?

 

Mods? Any one out there knows of this?

No I believe it's surpose to balance things out. there are articles out saying that are birds should get probotic more often

 

Now that's interesting.

 

How can I get hold of these articles?

 

Mods? Any one out there knows of this?

 

The tetracyclines will with prolonged use cause thrush , Like all antibiotics when you start a course you should not stop until the completion time , as with humans you dont stop taking them for a day and start again. The doxicycline is the replacement of the older tetracyclines and does not cause thrush , but the older meds can still be used , just take care with there application. Now with Probiotics , you should not use them during the course of antibiotics as they will have no affect and be wasted , once the course of antibiotics are finished then use the probiotic as this is good bacteria and and will flourish in the gut and help stop the bad bacteria taking hold again once the antibiotics are finished.

I agree with Lochlan's advice here

 

Antibiotics shouldn't damage the bird physically however they will damage the population of healthy gut flora

Edited January 7, 200916 yr by melbournebudgies

I use the same as Splat but don't use Probotics and Antibiotics at the same time.

okay, seems I have a whole chapter in Gerald Binks "The Challenge" book about Probiotics.

 

Here's a summary-

 

In simple terms, Probiotics are about making life for harmful bacteria as difficult as possible, without administering antibiotics to our birds.

 

Probiotics products have a variable amount of live organisms in them and these are essential in quantity to have any beneficial effects. Nearly all probiotics on the market contain Lactobacili and/or Streptococci.

 

When there is stress (in our birds), there is a decline in the numbers of beneficial bacteria in the gut (of our birds) and a rise in the harmful Pathogenic species. It is at this time that we should administer probiotics. Probiotics is about reversing the harmful rise in Pathogenic species. The number of times it is given per annum is irrelevant as there are no toxic affects from using probiotics in the long term.

Thanks so much for all your advice

 

I am going to get some pro biotic so i have it ready for the day they finish their antibiotics

I am going to get some pro biotic so i have it ready for the day they finish their antibiotics

 

I'm still in the dark on how you would administer it?

I agree awesome advice. Does anyone know of any probiotics in smaller quantities? I only have 10 birds

 

Also We sell that probac stuff where I work if anyone wants it? Dc Colin Walker makes it.

 

Renee.. Via the water. I believe its a powder

Edited January 7, 200916 yr by jwancia

Vetafarm has a small jar , and yes its a powder that you mix in the water.

I use the same as Splat but don't use Probotics and Antibiotics at the same time.

 

I don't use them the same time either Daz only after the antibiotic treament, but I don't those to use antibiotics much either unless advised but the vet as most breeders from my club advise us not to dapple in it unless you know what you are treating.

 

PROBAC

 

A probiotic preparation made for use in birds.

 

Through time, many birds have evolved to maintain a population of bacteria in their bowels. These bacteria help to protect the birds from disease and aid in the digestion and absorption of nutrients. Stress disrupts these normal bowel bacteria, in the process making the bird vulnerable to disease and compromising digestion. Obviously, the quicker the normal bowel bacteria can be re-established after stress, the better for the birds. Probiotic preparations contain these beneficial bacteria.

 

And so, how do probiotics work? Essentially, they help protect the bowel from disease in three ways: firstly, by producing protective slime layers; secondly, by preferentially occupying receptor sites so that they are not available to disease-causing bacteria, and thirdly, by producing acids such as lactic acid, that keep the contents of the stomach and intestine weakly acidic. An acid environment favours the growth of the ‘good’ bacteria and inhibits the growth of the ‘bad’ or disease-causing bacteria. Probiotics also have an appetite-stimulating effect, producing digestive enzymes and B vitamins. Probiotics also stimulate general immunity.

 

When can the aviculturist use probiotics to his advantage?

After any stress. Stress predictably disrupts the population of bacteria found in the bowel with the beneficial bacteria being the first ones to be lost. Once these beneficial bacteria are removed, an opening is created for an overgrowth of disease-causing bacteria or yeasts. This can result in diarrhoea, decreased appetite and a vulnerability to disease. Probiotics restore the balance of beneficial to non-beneficial bacteria. They are best given as soon as possible after the stress or just before the time of the stress. By doing so, disease problems may be avoided.

 

During breeding and moulting. Often, despite the best of care, breeding or moulting birds can become ‘run down’. Probiotic use is likely to protect the parents and, during breeding, the babies from disease.

 

Following purchase and transport. Catching and confinement can be extremely stressful, particularly in naturally nervous species. Interrupted feeding and drinking patterns provide further physiological stress.

 

Following antibiotic use. Many antibiotics not only target disease-causing bacteria but also kill the beneficial bacteria of the bowel. When antibiotic treatment ceases, the bowel can repopulate with bacteria from the birds’ immediate environment. Probiotics can help protect the birds from disease during this time.

 

After fledging. Less disease can be expected after weaning if birds are probiotic-supplemented until they are feeding properly and have established themselves in the aviary.

 

Probiotic use can never be harmful as we are simply flooding the bowel with beneficial bacteria that should always be there.

 

Probiotic preparations are one of the newer health aids available to the aviculturist. Their use has many advantages and should be encouraged.

Probac is a probiotic preparation made specifically for use in birds, containing avian-origin lactobacillus and streptococci in high numbers (180 million CFU/g).

Edited January 7, 200916 yr by splat

I agree awesome advice. Does anyone know of any probiotics in smaller quantities? I only have 10 birds

 

Also We sell that probac stuff where I work if anyone wants it? Dc Colin Walker makes it.

 

Renee.. Via the water. I believe its a powder

 

Hi, just a few extra thoughts on this subject. First, don't give birds dairy products such as yoghurt. I think the reason is that they cannot handle that type of protein.

 

I have heard one prominent vet at a lecture saying that the gut of a bird should be sterile (without any intestinal flora, good or bad). This implies that, unlike us, birds do not rely on bacteria to digest food. I don't know how accurate that assumption is and would appreciate any comments.

 

I'd also been told that cocci is everywhere and in all birds and that it is unrealistic to try and wipe it out completely. Healthy birds may show positive for cocci but because they are otherwise strong their systems can cope with it and become more resistant. It is when birds are stressed or suffering from other ailments that an advantageous disease such cocci can be devastating.

Thanks so much for all the information, its really interesting and i have sent David out to get some pro biotic today when he is in town :thumbs_down:

UNDERSTANDING PROBIOTICS

By

 

Wanda Barras

 

Caged and hand-fed birds can suffer from a myriad of disease problems, which are brought about by stress and other environmental factors. Birds can be plagued by chlamydial, fungal, viral and parasitic diseases. Nutritional deficiencies, a less than ideal environment, and other stressors can and will lower a birds defense system allowing infectious agents to take hold. The most important aspect of disease control is prevention. As we all know many diseases can be prevented by proper planning, quarantine, cleanliness, pest control and husbandry practices. Routine probiotic therapy can help in the prevention of disease in the aviary and nursery.

 

Probiotics is defined as:

 

Live microbial feed supplements, which beneficially affect the host animal by improving its intestinal microbial balance. Antibiotics and other related compounds are not included in this definition. In humans, lactobacilli are commonly used as probiotics, either as single species or in mixed culture with other bacteria. Other genera that have been used are bifidobacteria and streptococci. (j. Nutr. 1995;125:1401-12)

 

As in all animals, there is a normal microfloral population that coexists with our birds. It is believed that almost any form of stress can change this balance of microflora and precipitate a disease situation. However in a healthy bird the normal flora has the ability to combat any possible imbalance or infection. The Merck Veterinary Manuel states that, "The GI Flora of healthy psittacines is predominantly gram-positive (streptococci) and Staphlococcus epidermidis with a variable number of Cacillus and Lactobacillus spp), but gram-negative bacteria predominate as pathogens." (Merck). Probiotic is a term used to denote this naturally occurring group of organisms that is the beneficial "friendly" flora. The two dominant strains of probiotic microflora are Lactobacillus acidophilus and Bifidobacterium bifidum. These are the two most widely researched and documented. Bifidobacterium bifidum inhibits the growth of E. coli in the small intestine and Lactobacillus acidophilus is an significant probiotic that inhabits the GI tract of humans and animals, including birds.

 

A Balance of Microflora

 

Cultures of direct-fed microorganisms or probiotics are able to multiply in the intestinal tract to create a balance of microflora. Some lactobacillus species used in probiotic applications include L. acidophilus, L. casei, L. reuteri, L. rhamnosus and Bifidobacterium bifidum. These and other organisms form a symbiotic or mutual relationship with their host. Each species has developed a resistance to the disease-causing potential of such organisms and in fact have formed mutual beneficial relationships with these organisms (Doane). In the gut of a healthy bird, the beneficial bacterial population---gut flora---thrives in great numbers. The established flora prevents other, sometimes dangerous, organisms from invading and flourishing within the digestive system (Vriends). That is, these beneficial microorganisms fill all the available ecological niches in the body. This prevents harmful bacteria,such as E. coli from gaining a foothold and flourishing. The familiar L. acidophilus produces lactic acid, reduces gut pH and acts as a colonizer (Schoen). Thus, establishing healthy gut flora and preventing disease.

 

The normal avian microflora/gram positive bacteria found in the avian gut are: Corynebacterium, enterococus, Bacillus, Streptococcus, Staphylococcus, Micrococcus and or course Lactobacillus. Lactobacillus acidophilus, the best known of a type of acidophilus bacteria (bacteria attracted to acid), is a genus of bacteria belonging to the family Lactobacillaceae. It has been suggested that L. acidophilus is a beneficial or so-called "friendly" bacterium, which provides an important function in the body of animals and birds. Lactobacillus organisms are gram-positive, nonmotile, rod shaped organisms that do not produce spores, are acid resistant and thrive in acidic conditions (pH 4-5; neutral pH is 7.0; blood is at a pH of 7.2).

 

Beneficial Bacteria

 

This "beneficial bacteria" create an acidic environment that inhibits the intestinal growth of pathogenic bacteria, yeast, and fungi. "Test tube studies have shown that L. acidophilus can and will inhibit the growth [that is discourage the growth, not treat] of candida albicans. It has also been suggested, based on test tube studies, that L. acidophilus may have potential antibiotic effects of its own" (Scott-Hartland). Probiotics do produce a natural antibiotic-like substance called bactericine, which helps to eliminate unwanted coliforms. Thus, a bird’s normal bacterial flora develops an effective defense mechanism against infection and illness. The end result is a healthy, viable intestinal lining that can maintain optimal nutrient absorption capabilities and ultimately fight disease. However, if the bacterial balance is destroyed or if natural flora has not been established dangerous disease causing organisms will thrive, eventually requiring medical intervention.

 

Microbials and Stress

 

It is during times of illness, antibiotic therapy, injury and excessive stress that the normal microflora, pH and digestive process can be effected. Examples of stress that can alter a birds normal microflora populations in the gut are: feed or formula changes, poor nutrition, hatching, weaning, inadequate or close housing, shipping, excessive temperatures, exposure to pathogenic microorganisms or viruses, weakened immune system, and over exertion. Stress can lead to a decrease in food intake, and without adequate energy sources, beneficial microflora populations’ decline. Subsequently, the pH of the GI tract rises and pathogenic bacterial populations increase. Direct-fed microbials can reestablish the natural gut flora that in turn lower the intestinal pH, making the GI environment less favorable for disease causing organisms. Probiotic therapy will introduce "good" bacteria into the gut, encourage colonization and a healthy growth of microflora. The probiotics will prevent undesirable organisms (pathogens) from gaining a foothold and colonizing in the intestine ultimately causing illness.

 

During Antibiotic Therapy

 

Alteration of gut flora or "gut sterilization" is a frequent side effect of antibiotic therapy. Never should hand-feeding babies or adults for that matter be put on antibiotic or anti-fungal therapy as a prophylactic. Indiscriminate or prolonged use of antibiotics can destroy normal body flora, and depress the immune system and create resistant pathogens. It is at these times that direct-fed, species-specific microbials, also referred to as probiotics or lactobacillus, can prove beneficial. Probiotics can safely be used as a prophylactic and as supportive therapy when administering antibiotics. These new species-specific probiotics can supply nutrients to the host, aid in digestion and produce better food conversion. They will help keep disease causing microorganisms in check by producing antibacterial agents and enzymes that act on and kill many pathogenic bacteria and viruses. Probiotics help neutralize toxins produced by pathogenic bacteria and produce a wide range of B-vitamins and beneficial enzymes (Schoen).

 

Hand-fed Chicks

 

Psittacine chicks usually hatch with no bacteria present. These chicks are for all practical purposes sterile. From hatch on, chicks are continually absorbing organisms from their surroundings---beneficial as well as harmful pathogens. If gram negative bacteria are allowed to flourish without benefit of healthy digestive flora, problems will occur. Parent raised chicks naturally ingest normal gut flora from their parents and from the environment. Hand-fed chicks on the other hand, particularly those fed from day one and raised in an artificial sometimes sterile environment, often lack the natural gut flora found in parent raised chicks. Most name brand commercial hand-feeding formulas do contain some form of lactobacillus. Unfortunately, these living organisms are often killed during formula preparation due to high temperatures or storage conditions and are ineffective in establishing healthy gut flora in neonates. Hand-fed chicks are ideal candidates for direct-fed microbials and will benefit from species-specific probiotic therapy.

 

Avian Strain Suggested

 

Not all probiotics are created equal. Bacterial preparations, direct-fed microbials, also referred to as probiotics or lactobacillus are widely available commercially. It is important to recognize and choose the right product. Some probiotics are not effective on birds. Many bacterial preparations are harvested from the gut flora of mammals such as swine or cattle and show little benefit when used on parrots. These microbial products may have the same name as those that are found in birds but---can prove ineffective if non species-specific. "Just because the label states lactobacillus… does not mean that the product was derived from birds." (Jordan). Because available products are not always species specific, derived totally from the intestinal flora of psittacines, or viable, they will not have the ability to multiply, adhere to the intestinal tract and establish healthy gut flora. Susan Club, a noted aviculturist and veterinarian, states,

 

" Many natural products, such as some brands of yogurt, do not contain viable Lactobacillus cultures. Some researchers feel that species-specific lactobacilli may be required for gut colonization."(Harrison). For example: Yogurt a widely available form of lactobacillus is widely used as a probiotic in hand-feeding programs. But, yogurt, which is made from milk, is species specific for mammals----not birds! The lactobacillus in yogurt (which is probably harvested from the stomach of a cow and is species specific to mammals) will not thrive and multiply in the avian gut. In order to establish a colony of healthy flora in the gut, a viable avian specific probiotic should be utilized when hand-feeding.

 

Fortunately beneficial bacterial preparations, that is species-specific probiotics, have become more widely available to the growing avicultural community. These commercially available, direct-fed microbials are found to be extremely beneficial in helping to maintain and restore health in our hand-fed babies, breeders and pet birds. Probiotics such as Pet-Ag’s Bird Bene-Bac gel offer natural and effective therapy not only for diseases relating to the digestive system and crop dysfunction, but also offers an opportunity to establish a stable, healthy gut environment that will aid in disease prevention. Only by establishing a strong "disease prevention program", which includes probiotic therapy and good husbandry and management practices, can we hope to raise birds free of or resistant to disease.