this does my head in

i know its not that hard but i thought i understood but seems i do not

can i get a full typing on following birds mutations and colours please

as other wize i am going to go in circles ....

 

 

one

 

 

 

 

i think he is a colbalt opaline dome pie ?

 

two

 

 

 

 

i think he is a colbalt spangle dom pie ? but is he double factor or clear wing mabe or neither

 

three this one really does my head in

i thought he was a dom pie opaline spange yf t2 when chick see the defenent green band over his sky blue i know he has yellow doing that but it was very promenent in nest feathering up but now

 

 

 

 

 

he just looks like an opaline yft2 sky blue spangle ? and is he clear flight or am i compleatly wrong ?

 

i have others so please check back later as i want to make sure i have them right but decided to do what pearce does and post a few at a time see if that helps the posts come out right

I am no expert on pieds - Kaz is much better - but my understanding is this. There are two main types of pieds - dominant and recessive. The dominants can be broken up into different regions, such as the Dutch pied, etc. One type is the clearflight pied. This is where the bird looks like a normal, except its flight feathers are clear, as in they have no markings. Soa green clearflight dominant pied will look like a normal green bird, but its flights will be completely yellow.

 

Looking at your pics, I see Dominant pieds, a poorly marked grey spangle, another dominant pied (breeding box with the grey spangled hen) and the bird you have down the bottom is not a pied but rather a YF2 Opaline spangle. I think the thing that is throwing you here is that since he is a spangle his wing patterns are reversed - note he still has a black outline on his wings - and the fact that he is a Yellow face Type 2 as his flights are white/cream, not yellow. He is defintiely not a pied.

Dominant pied and clearflight pied are two different mutations. They are similar in appearance but the most obvious difference is that the dominant pied has a clear band across it's front and the clearflight pied does not. It is possible to produce a bird with both mutations but most times when the two terms are used together it is an error.

 

Your birds

One - Cobalt opaline dominant pied

 

Two - It could be a spangle dominant pied but often a bird with very few markings like this is a double factor dominant pied. Do you know what mutations it's parents were?. To be a double factor dominant pied both parents would be dominant pieds. To be a spangle dominant pied one parent would be spangle and the other dominant pied. (The blue on the back of it's head suggests spangle)

 

Three - Type 2 yellow face opaline spangle sky blue. If it was also dominant pied the band would be white or yellow and the flight feathers would have no spangle marks on them. As you probably know with type 2 yellow face birds the yellow spreads after it's first moult causing the greenish look it now has.

Edited January 4, 200916 yr by Neville

I thought they were all pied related - as in clearflight was just a variation.

so he is just a spangle yf t2 well i got that right and the other two are just dom pie nothing more okay so far my recolds are right how about these ones

 

this i think dom opaline coboalt cinnimon pie ?

another

also dom pie grey mauvenexta df tf2 dom pie ? has she any other trates?

she is sky blueam i missing anythingthe cin wing must be holding rececive as she had a rececive pie baby and clearflight pies i think she is clearflight pied would i be right the one beneath is her daughterTwo - It could be a spangle dominant pied but often a bird with very few markings like this is a double factor dominant pied. Do you know what mutations it's parents were?. To be a double factor dominant pied both parents would be dominant pieds. To be a spangle dominant pied one parent would be spangle and the other dominant pied. (The blue on the back of it's head suggests spangle)no this bird i do not know the heratage of i think spangle or df dom i am going to breed him with the hen he is near she is a violet sky spangle pos cin mabe clear wing i am pretty sure opaline that way i was hopeing to work out what he really was what should the out come be if he is spangle dom pie like i think with this hen ?please i can not breed these two till march aprilsorry i lost half the pics and stuff this makes no sence i give up im over it thank you all any way

Edited January 4, 200916 yr by KAZ

Here is an excellent site on mutations, that I'm sure you will absolutely love GB:

Budgie Place

 

 

To answer your question. Dominant pieds and clearflight pieds are different mutations and a bird that is both a dominant pied and a clearflight pied can occur.

Edited January 4, 200916 yr by Sailorwolf

thank you so much sailor

i will go see if i can name my birds their , i have been doing the mutations topics

but every one says a diffrent thing

looking at that i have all that info printed out but still their are to many crossed points of views for me to be positive what exactly i have

guess i will just have to keep test breeding, its just soooo much extra work

if only i knew a breeder with recorlds i could buy from i would sell the lot exept the ones i have windled through and just start over

more expencive but in my case not really as i dont want more than a bout 6 pairs going at once so thats stagered 18 pairs with a few extras no more than 100 birds all up i have around 60. 70 now most just sitting pretty

 

i just want some productiveness

but with what i have done i need to wait 2 years before i can get my rezults even then its just a guess from what i belive i will get from whom i have breed

untill then my breedings are all test breedings to find genetic inheritance

i did want a chalange but i think i bit of more than i can chew :laughter: :question:

Edited January 4, 200916 yr by GenericBlue

GB, there is no need to do test breeding for genes that are already known and written about.

The site that I sent you also tells you whether the genes are recessive, dominant or sex-linked or co-dominant. Once you know what a gene is you can use that to predict what your outcomes will be.

The only time you need to test cross something is to find out its mode of inheritance and we already know the mode of inheritance for the most common budgie mutations like dominant pied and clearflight pied.

 

The birds in your most recent post:

Bird 1 is a dominant pied, cinnamon cobalt.

Bird 2 is a dominant pied grey hen

Bird 3 is a yellowface type 2 double factor dominant pied sky blue hen

Bird 4 (the one with its back to us preening) is a grey, greywing spangle hen. The other one in the picture to its left is a recessive pied skyblue (it is too far away to tell if it is a spangle or grey wing instead)

Edited January 4, 200916 yr by Sailorwolf

thanks sailor for takeing the time to help me

are those two opaline they are arnt they

the dom pie cobalt cin and grey hen ?

 

 

also i am confussed as the spangle is not grey their is a diluted grey well thats what everyone here told me 2 months ago she is opaline with bad markings lol thats here look

 

 

 

 

she is grey defenently what ever her type

 

but the other spangle has sky blue on her chest and is the exact colour of this bird only softer and looks lavender not blue or grey she has sky blue a tad if you really look ( picture 2 ) i think she is cin wing

 

 

 

these are difrent birds top one is a sky 1f violet cin spangle hen

n

2 picture the bird in question

Edited January 4, 200916 yr by GenericBlue

I am no expert on pieds - Kaz is much better - but my understanding is this. There are two main types of pieds - dominant and recessive. The dominants can be broken up into different regions, such as the Dutch pied, etc. One type is the clearflight pied. This is where the bird looks like a normal, except its flight feathers are clear, as in they have no markings. Soa green clearflight dominant pied will look like a normal green bird, but its flights will be completely yellow.

 

Looking at your pics, I see Dominant pieds, a poorly marked grey spangle, another dominant pied (breeding box with the grey spangled hen) and the bird you have down the bottom is not a pied but rather a YF2 Opaline spangle. I think the thing that is throwing you here is that since he is a spangle his wing patterns are reversed - note he still has a black outline on his wings - and the fact that he is a Yellow face Type 2 as his flights are white/cream, not yellow. He is defintiely not a pied.

 

i think there is actually 6 variations of pieds.

i think there is actually 6 variations of pieds.

They are not just variations they are completely different mutations. There are only 3 pied mutations that we are likely to find these days:

 

Dominant pieds - formerly called the Australian banded pied

 

Recessive pieds - also known as Danish pieds or harlequins

 

Clearflight pieds - also known as Continental or Dutch pieds

yeah i get all the ins and outs what i dont get is what mine are

okay they are dom pies i get that

i get that the diffrence between a dom pie and a clearfly pie is but the wing markings

i understand the bit where you can have both dom and clear flight in one bird (a fult)

but i dont get how you tell with out test breeding

if i have a dom pie with clearflight also

i need to know

or i may be puting the wrong bird in the mix to get what i want ?

 

the cin colbolt upon being paired with a grey blue opaline cock

produced

1 full normal wing opaline hen dom pie

1 dom pie grey hen half sholder marking

1 opaline dom pie grey mauve hen full wing markings

1 cobalt blue rececive pie cock /cin lepord spoted markings

1 sky blue dompie opaline cock quarter sholder wing markings

she has to be opaline to produes male opalines true ?

so that would make her come from what ?

as the fathers is a opaline grey blue mother identaical to him

his father was a normal sky blue/opaline

his brother a the opaline cocks was a normal grey

 

mabe if i just ask what i need to pair up

to get a clear wing dom pie spangle opaline chick happening

it would be easyer

or can i not ?

Second lot of pictures

 

1/ Cobalt opaline cinnamon dominant pied

 

2/ Grey opaline dominant pied

 

3/ Type 2 yellow face sky blue double factor dominant pied

 

4/ Looks like a grey spangle grey wing

 

The bird in your next post I think is a grey opaline spangle dilute (could also have cinnamon)

i think there is actually 6 variations of pieds.

They are not just variations they are completely different mutations. There are only 3 pied mutations that we are likely to find these days:

 

Dominant pieds - formerly called the Australian banded pied

 

Recessive pieds - also known as Danish pieds or harlequins

 

Clearflight pieds - also known as Continental or Dutch pieds

 

 

thats what i thought so i am not compleately mad

a dutch pie is a clearflight yes ?

and danish and harliquin rececive harliquin being a parblue pie ?

 

aussie pie is dom

 

thank you nev

thats what i was taught when i was 15 and i just got lost since i joined here with all the diffrent choises and me doubting my self due to my memorie

just colors names veriy also these days it all gets so much

Have a look at the pieds in this thread it may help - Especially the discussion part

 

http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....showtopic=21714

thank you i will take a look

yes nev that did make things make sence again

think i have been over thinking my mutations

their is and only ever will be three type pies

the dom

the rececive

and the clearflight

:yes: finally so i now know where i am at again

thanks all who imputed to my unsureness

 

now for the opaline spangle v normal spangle refresh :laughter:

Edited January 4, 200916 yr by GenericBlue

Dont worry GB, that has confused me for ages too!!!! hehehe

 

 

I'm really not seeing any opaline in this bird.

i was not sure myself wolf but

the pairing says it all

thats what i ment about test breeding if im not sure on a certain type being in a bird i breed it with something that will bring it to the surfuse hence the grey opaline i pared her to

i am going to keep this pair together for one more clutch just to verify for me then start with the plains i have for them late this year

they had a opaline cock so she has to be ...?

and the side barring on head are opaline looking around near sholder just no real v as pied im guessing

but thats what i thought also the colour in her sholder marks