April 21, 200916 yr I would think if a black budgie,could of been bred it would of happened by now.There ate some very cleaver breeders in the budgie world,& they havnt come up with one,there has been some badly marked & heavy flecked birds.But not black by a long way. Really? You know that for certain? Some people used to think that the world was flat, that the earth was the centre of the universe, that no human could ever run a mile in less than 4 minutes and lots of other things that just aren't so. Belief is not a perfect science, but the first step to achieving it is believing it is possible. The next step is researching and experimenting to find out how. Sometimes cleverness or experience has nothing to do with it, sometimes it is purely luck or chance. Sometimes it is thought, dedication and a whole lot of time and effort. There may be other ways, it may happen spontaneously, it may never happen. Those pictures of black faces and anthracites look quite black to me. If someone, somewhere, happened to put those two mutations together in the same bird and produced a blackfaced anthracite, that would be fairly close to a completely black budgie. Low odds, but not impossible. Think whatever you will, but the timeline of mutations in budgerigars from the wikipedia entry on budgerigar colour genetics and several other sources, indicates that they, like everything else, are continually evolving. Just because something hasn't been done, doesn't mean that it can't be done. You will only know if you give it a go. Someone may even have done it already and just not widely publicised it, or the living proof died. There was probably someone in the 1870's who thought that a blue budgie was not possible either, let alone pieds or spangles. There are people alive today who still don't even know what a budgie is! Some even live in Australia and are clever people too! Time line 1870-75 The very first registered sudden captive-bred colour mutations were Suffused Green (aka Dilute Yellow), Greywinged Green and either one of the two types of Lutino (NSLino &/or SLino) mutations. All three occurred in aviaries in Great Britain or Europe. Of these three mutations, only the Suffused Green (aka Dilute Yellow) has survived. The latter was easily reproduced in great numbers and is nowadays very well established. The first Lutino mutation quickly vanished but it was re-established in Europe some time between 1931 and 1933. 1878-85 The Skyblue mutation suddenly occurred in continental Europe, most probably in Uccle, Belgium. Surprisingly, this variety was not imported in England until 1910. 1915 Single-Factored Dark-Green (aka Dark-Green) in France (where they were then commonly called 'Laurel' which is the french word for Bay (leaf &/or tree)) 1916 Double-Factored Dark-Green (aka Olive) in France. 1918-28 Respectively, Greywinged Green and Greywinged Blue appeared in England and continental Europe. 1920 Crest-Factor in Australia. Suffused Blue (aka Dilute White) in England and France. Single-Factored Dark_Blue (aka Cobalt) in France. 1921 Double-Factored Dark_Blue (aka Mauve) in France. 1930 Single-Factored Violet-Green (aka Violet Factor) in Australia (and were then 1st commonly called 'Satin Green') The first Clearwinged Green (Yellowinged) appeared, developed by H. Pier in Sydney. 1931 Cinnamon in England, Australia & Germany. An unknown type of Fallow in California, U.S.A. This soon vanished. The Germanfallow in Germany, recently been genetically classified and identified as the Bronzefallow (aka Brownfallow). A plum-eyed mutation, similar looking to Fallow mutations, occurred in England. This vanished or at least became very rare. This mutation was most probably the Brownwings, one of the rarest colour mutations of the species. The first Albino specimens were produced in both England and continental Europe. 1932 Three Fallow mutations occurred in England which became known as the Englishfallow. In Australia these have been genetically classified and identified as the Dunfallow or Greybrownfallow (aka Australianfallow). The Beigefallow or Palebrownfallow has been classified in South-Africa, but no reference seems to be available on this particular mutation. The recessive Anti-dimorphic Pied (aka Danish Pied aka Harlequin) in Denmark. The Australian (aka Banded) Pied in Australia. 1933 Green Clearwinged (aka Yellow Wing) and Dominant Grey-Factor appear in Australia. Both the NSL & the SL Lutino gene occurred in England and continental Europe. Three Opaline mutations occurred. An Opaline Green hen was captured in the wild and sold to S. Terril in Adelaide. It was later-on reproduced and is most probably the ancestor of all Opaline specimens in Australia. Two sudden captive-bred Opaline mutations occurred in England and Holland. 1934 Recessive grey factor in England. 1935 The various Yellowfaced_Blue and Goldenfaced_Blue occurred in several locations. 1939-46 Clearflighted_Dutchpied in Belgium. 1948 Texas Clearbodied (aka SL-Clearbody) in the U.S.A. Dominant Clearbodied (aka Easley's Clearbodied) in the U.S.A. The first Cinnamon-Ino (aka Lacewings) cross-over mutation was produced in Australia. The first Dark-Eyed-Clear (DEC) variety was produced in Belgium by combining the ADM Pied (aka Danish/Recessive pied) with either one of the two Dutchpied varieties (Continental or Clearflighted). 1970-74 Single-Factored and Double-Factored Spangled specimens were produced in Australia. 1975 Saddleback specimens were produced in Australia.
April 23, 200916 yr Wow! That timeline is very interesting, Thanks DrNat! Thankyou wikipedia and sources of wikipedia.
April 23, 200916 yr I have to agree with DrNat. If you look at the wild budgerigar and the different showtypes we have today, it is amazing that they all came from wild budgerigars... I was reminded of this saying recently, "If you always do, what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got." Its very true. Maybe the reason why we've never seen a black budgie is because the right combination of pairing hasn't taken place yet... DrNat has given her theory on how to get black birds, that may work, it may not... but you'll never know if you never try...
April 23, 200916 yr There are people in the bird world,that spend there life, working on colour mutation & if they thought they could breed a black budgie,I am pretty sure they would of made it happen. I think if you want to play with trying to do something with the budgies & see some results,take one of the minor breeds & lift them the the standard of the normals. You will have acheaved some thing others will after & all your time & effort will be rewarded.
April 23, 200916 yr That was interesting reading Dr Nat...and anything's possible, especially when it comes to nature.
April 23, 200916 yr There are people in the bird world,that spend there life,working on colour mutation & if they thought they could breed a black budgie,I am pretty sure they would of made it happen. I think if you want to play with trying to do something with the budgies & see some results,take one of the minor breeds & lift them the the standard of the normals. You will have acheaved some thing others will after & all your time & effort will be rewarded. I personally wouldn't like to limit myself to that kind of life, but hey whatever suits you. I teach my kids that they can do anything.. to tell them not to bother because there are other people that have tried that are really smart and they failed so it must be impossible is not going to assist them in achieving the goals that they set for themselves... People were killed for saying the earth was round, they were put in mental asylums for saying stuff that we know today, but in their time they were written off as Lunatics. Alexander the Great was told as a child that he was a descendant of the Gods by his parents. He was told that he could do anything be anything he chose... so he set off and conquered the then known world... You and I go, there's no way he was a descendant of the Gods, but that's what caused him to be so confident, and so bold as to take over the world... Can black birds be bred, you say there's no way you can get black birds, I say why not try, the worst you will do is have a stud full of nice looking dark grey budgies... at best, you'll be the first person to breed a black budgie and your name will go down in the history books... awesome.
April 24, 200916 yr I would think if a black budgie,could of been bred it would of happened by now.There ate some very cleaver breeders in the budgie world,& they havnt come up with one,there has been some badly marked & heavy flecked birds.But not black by a long way. If we took that stance and applied it to technology, then technology would not have advanced at all, we would have no fire, no wheel. etc etc. If Thomas Eddison decided that, "well, there have been lots of clever people before me who have never produced an electric lightbulb and therefore it can't be done," then we wouldn't have lightbulbs! Worldfirsts are called worldfirsts for a reason.
April 24, 200916 yr I would postulate that any colour in nature that currently exists can be bred into any bird that exists in nature. There already exists black birds in some species (crow, black cockatoo), same as red (rosella's) so these colours already exist in naturally created (bred) birds so it's a matter of finding the right "trigger" to bring them out in budgies. Gosh I'd love to be a geneticist!
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