In the sense that if the bird was cinnamon that may have helped, etc yes but I still think it was more luck than anything else there

When a new mutation occurs there is a change in the DNA sequence of genetic material. This can be caused by copying error, radiation, a virus, etc. etc. This change can be passed down to the mutatants descendants either by natural selection or by selective breeding. The chances of duplicating change would be almost impossible

Hi! I have an all white budgie and his back tail feathers are turning pink! He has a little bit of grey on his back but he is definately turning pink!

Hi! I have an all white budgie and his back tail feathers are turning pink! He has a little bit of grey on his back but he is definately turning pink!

Do you have any pink perches, or pink calcium bells ?

Mutations also need to occur in the gametes in order for them to be passed on. If a mutation only occurred in a body cell, it won't get passed on to its offspring. Thus an acquired mutation will not be passed on.

Because this chick was apparently born with it, the mutation must have happened in the parents gametes or before it divided into a foetus.

 

Also red mutation may have cropped up before. The person who owned the red bird would not want to tell other people, because other people may want to steal it or destroy it. If I bred such a bird, I would not tell anyone until I had a large stock and had taken heaps of pictures.

You would't tell anyone Sailorwolf??? I'd be telling everyone... I like you would take plenty of photographs. but that would be the first thing that I did... Once you have photo's I'd call a world renowned breeder that is highly respected send him the photo's and invite them to come see my new mutation. Then I'd be getting it verified by professors and vetinarians. Lastly I'd be contacting everyone in the budgie world... Once you had proof that it was a budgie and that it was a new mutation it wouldn't matter what people did/said you'd be the first know case... Sell the rights to Readers Digest and make a quid.. lol

I'm with you SW, I'd be taking lots of pics but keeping it to myself and a few trusted friends until I had a few of them, a friend of mine was one of the first to breed lutino rainbow lorikeets many years ago (I think that was the mutation) and someone came and broke into his aviaries and stole them, even stole chicks and eggs out of boxes Now they are everywhere.

Isn't it horrible how that sort of thing happens? That's exactly why I wouldn't tell anyone.

I am no one to say that it did or didn't happen - But would be wonderful to see one day

Hi! I have an all white budgie and his back tail feathers are turning pink! He has a little bit of grey on his back but he is definately turning pink!

Do you have any pink perches, or pink calcium bells ?

 

 

No, I've got an orange chew thing though.

Hi! I have an all white budgie and his back tail feathers are turning pink! He has a little bit of grey on his back but he is definately turning pink!

 

Can you post a photo of this guy... maybe that will help us?

if i bred a red i wouldnt tell anyone until i have enough and had ran out of room to keep more red budgies. the first person who breeds the first red then i believe they would be anle to mane his price.

i reckon we'll see white-faced green budgies before we'll see a red budgie.

Did he have photos? Personally if I had bred a bird with red feathers I'd be snapping away with the camera going through roll after roll of film :budgiedance:

 

 

I agree 100% with MB on this. :budgiedance: If it's that amazing of a story and a mutation he has never seen... I personally would have taken 1,000 pictures of every angle, in every kind of lighting there is, etc... unbelievable stories should always be backed up with proof or they become just that.... unbelievable. If this is true, I'd love to see a picture too, it would probably be a first for most of us.

this is how urban myths start.

Well this was an interesting thread to read.

 

Quote Jen144:

I just ran into a friend of mine, who I only recently realized used to breed and show budgies on a very large scale. (he had a few hundred birds). He told me about how he somehow bred a completely grey budgie, no white, no markings, cheek spots, or anything. (is that even possible, I have never heard of such a mutation?)

 

It will depend of what he considers Grey. The closest you can get to an all grey budgie would possibly be a Blackface Greywing but Blackfaces do not exist in Australia. I my experience also I have know people not to notice things such as spots, markings and cheek patches even though they do exist on the bird. Not everybody has the same level of observational skill.

Quote Jen144:

He had been expecting albinos from the pairing that got the grey. He bred it later with another bird, and got one bird that was completely grey again, with one red feather. I know this guy and he wouldn't lie about that, plus, it was born like that. (ie, when it grew feathers, it had one red one)

 

The chances of this "new mutation" produced in one generation then going on to produce yet another new mutation would be nigh on impossible.

Quote Jen144:

He bred this one with another bird, and got a bird with a red chest and legs. Sadly, someone destroyed the aviaries and let all the birds out a while later, he then gave up breeding budgies...but is this possible?? I've heard it's not even genetically possible to get a budgie with any red on it..let alone a heap of feathers..

 

Anybody who breeds a new mutation is not going to outcross to another bird. The first thing when any new mutation is discovered is to breed back to a parent. Also at this time a program of intense inbreeding will also be put into place.

Quote melbournebudgies:

Did he have photos? Personally if I had bred a bird with red feathers I'd be snapping away with the camera going through roll after roll of film

 

I so agree with this. I know when I produced a Self-colour I certainly got photos and told no-one about this bird until I had figured out exactly what I was dealing with.

Quote Krosp:

I wonder what he means by red, too.... like, whether it's a bright red like a king parrot, or if it maybe had a pinkish hue or something?

 

Some Cinnamon Violets produced have been labelled "red" at times. There is a Violet gene out there but appears to be quite rare known as "parma" which produces the best Violet colour you'll ever see.

 

Quote melbournebudgies:

My kelpie is 'red and tan' but red actually means a reddy shade of brown, could it have been a very reddish cinnamon...

 

Absolutely spot on statement. Being a fan of Kelpies (I own a Kelpie x Huntaway) I know exactly what you mean.

 

Quote Jen144:

I didn't think that even a grey cinnamon would have the cinnamon colour in the body feathers as well, which could lead to him thinking it was red..Don't cinnamon's just have that colour in their wings feathers?

I don't think he gave the birds any 'colour enhancing' stuff, seeing as it was only one budgie in a couple of clutches that got the red feathers..not even its siblings..

 

Cinnamon only changes the black marking to brown. If you bred a Cinnamon to a Blackface you would get the brown in the body.

 

Quote Jen144:

Okay. He told me exactly what he paired with what to get the grey bird, and to get the 'red' bird..and he kept huge logs of his bird's pairings etc..so that would help wouldn't it?

 

Quote melbournebudgies:

Not really no, if it's true it would most likely have been a lucky pairing of two birds that both carried the mutation or a point mutation that occured when the egg was fertilised.

 

Actually it would help especially if he produced something and misidentified. Never dismiss any information that is offered.

I for one what to know the parents of the "grey" and the bird he paired it too and if possible a list of all sibling produced from all pairings.

 

Quote Neville:

A small amount of red melanin must be present to produce violet, or even cinnamon, on a budgie so theoretically a mutation with red in it could happen one day.

 

Sorry Neville but this statement is 100% incorrect. Budgies have only two pigments in their makeup; black (melanin) and yellow (Pscittacin). The colours we see in budgies are produced with these two pigments and feather structure.

 

Quote Neville:

I doubt that it has happened yet because I'm sure that any budgie breeder who produced a budgie with red on it would know the significance and spread the word very quickly.

 

To put it bluntly that person would be an idiot. As melbournebudgies pointed out about his friend with Lutino Rainbow Lorikeets. By telling people he not only got broken into and his birds stolen but he lost an opportunity many in aviculture would dream having. Your name linked to a new mutation or species.

Quote Neville:

I believe a budgie that is completely grey, green, blue or even black will probably happen sometime

 

I am not going to say impossible in the true sense of the word. I will say impossible as a stand alone mutation. The Grey, Green, Blue, or Black have one thing in common they all have markings, spots, cheek patches. All these things are inherited differently. Each mutation affects these areas differently. I do say however it could be possible by combining mutations.

 

Any updates ??

I wasn't able to follow up on the red budgie. The guy who had bred the bird no longer had any photos, and has since moved away. But he told me what pairings (he had extensive records of his breeding) that had made this budgie, and how the offspring of that red budgie had some red feathers also (one had more red than the parent). So I'm convinced red budgies CAN somehow be bred but I have no idea how yet.

He said he: Bred an Albino male and female (one was carrying grey in its ancestry), and got this completely grey budgie. He bred the grey budgie (a female I believe) back to her father and got a few normal offspring plus 2 grey budgies with some red feathers. He bred those to their relations (a Recessive Pied grandfather he mentioned as one of the pairings) and got another red and grey budgie, this time with even more red on her.

No other birds in the same breeding conditions had any red on them. He was breeding in a cage for each pair, so if it only happened with one pair and then in most of the offspring of that pair, it can't have been the diet or a mineral perch that was affecting the birds' colouring. Plus, it was inherited (from father to daughter).

He said 'red' as in, a bright red, not a browny-tan colour.

Without photos and proof its all TALK .......................smoke and mirrors.

 

Funny how there is always an excuse about photos.

hate to say it, but to me, talk is very cheap. Until I see it for real, or evena reliable photo, I am a non-believer.

 

My faith only extends so far

Urban Legend

Definition: An apocryphal, secondhand story told as true and just plausible enough to be believed, about some horrific, embarrassing, ironic, or exasperating series of events that supposedly happened to a real person.

 

Expanded Definition: What Is an Urban Legend?

 

Question: What is an urban legend?

Most people have heard the story, usually imparted as a thing that "really happened to a friend of a friend," of the dotty grandma who tried to dry her damp poodle in the microwave. The dog exploded, sad to say, and Grandma has never been quite the same since.

 

That story isn't true, of course; it's an urban legend that has circulated since the 1970s. It tells of a mishap that could have happened, but we have no real evidence, nor any good reason to believe, that it ever really did. It also conveys a familiar moral message: new technologies, albeit a boon to humanity, can also be dangerous when misused. Beware!

Edited March 24, 201015 yr by KAZ