os I lost one of my Lutino hens today.

 

I got home and she had an egg half hanging out. took her to the emergency vet who removed the egg and brought her home to take to the avairn vet tomorrow but within an hour she had passed away. i just really upset it just seems like nothing is going right. I have had two other hens scared off their eggs and another couple throw eggs out. Really starting to re think the whole budgie breeding thing.

I really do know what you are going through....I have had a succession of hens down with eggbinding despite supplements with calcium and intervention. In talking with a seasoned breeder just a few hours ago he is having similar problems as well, so even the experienced ones are having issues. Very very disheartening. I lost 3 very good hens that didnt make it from the eggbinding despite all help available to them. The losses are gut wrenching

Honey, I sorry to hear that. Hugs

Unfortunately its something that happens. Saffy became egg bound and even prolapsed her uterus, she managed to survive that and surgery though.

 

This is why maybe we should start thinking about that topic I posted about previously. The one about too much calcium may actually cause a deficiency.

Because all your hens had heaps of calcium supplements.

I am just thinking maybe overuse of calcivet possibly.

 

Build them up before breeding then step back off the calcium. This would be something you need to talk to your vet about.

My birds dont get calcivet in large doses...over 2-3 weeks prior to breeding maybe two days a week drinkers with calcivet and then they get it once chicks hatch but only 2 days out of 7. There is calcium blocks in the cages too.

Do you add cod liver oil or vegetable oil to your seed when you are breeding?

I had a lot of egg binding, but since adding the oil i have not had one. touch wood...

It must sort of lube them up a bit.

matt.

OH NO

 

Av - I am sooo sorry - I don't even know what to say

Hey AV i am so sory to hear about your hen, I am sure you did everything you could. Don't lose heart though honey, like Kaz said these things happen to the best of them :angel1:

It's not large doses that do it. It is supplements that do. Starting 2-3 weeks before breeding would probably be the worst time to start. In cows you should stop giving calcium supplements several weeks before birth so they can give their parathyroid glands a chance to catch up and adapt to the requirements that are put upon them.

I have not had much experience with breeding. One hen became egg bound, but she was 5 years old when she did it and was a chronic layer (her first two clutches (and she had clutches up to 11 eggs) were fine). My other hen, who was 15months old, I did not give any calcium supplement to bar a cuttle fish bone and a bell (which they chose to use) had relatively large eggs but did not have any problems and it was her first clutch ever.

 

It is just something that I wonder about and I don't think anyone would have trialled the timing of calcium use in budgerigars like they have in cattle.

I should probably ask one of my professors, see what they think about it.

Edited September 20, 200816 yr by Sailorwolf

AV hugs

Sorry mate... keep your chin up, it will get better and be worth it in the end

So now I am kicking myself.

 

See my first reaction was to get the Hen to the vet and Pippi and I went down the to Emergency Vet hospital as my avian vet was not open. $243.00 later I get my hen back and she died about 2 hours after that.

 

Now they where very nice but they did the wrong thing, after researching and talking to long time breeders what should have happened and what happened are two separate things. Jock my local Pet Store owner and LONG time breeder (he was the president of the Mountian club for around 6 years) said that if something like that happens again and no avian vet is open then to bring the bird to him, one it would have cost me nothing and two I might have been able to save the hen.

 

So some more info for you all.

 

When I found her with the egg half out Pippi said that it was prolapsed (he was right, the vet said she was egg bound), she was still very bright, not actively bleeding (however blood was present but it was dried on the egg and her backside). When caught she was chirping and moving around a lot.

 

The Vet removed the egg intact and in the process ripped the membrane which caused more bleeding and when I got her back she was limp and not moving. They gave her some pain killers and some antibiotics but they had not completely stopped the blood flow however it had clotted by the time I got home. I placed her in a makeshift hospital cage with a warm light and within 2 hours she was dead.

 

Now after internet research, talking to Jock and a call to my vet today what should have happened was

 

The egg should have been smashed and all that could be removed should be removed. The small amount that was sticking to the membrane should have been left with lubrication added to the area and replaced into the body. An Antibiotic flushing should have been given and then some injections, warmth and monitoring.

 

Now I would not recommend anyone to do this by themselves. My vet said that as long as she was 'active and alert' she could have waiting till he opened the next day (12 - 24 hours is the maximum you would leave a hen like this and only if there is no other choice)

 

All I know now is that I am kicking myself over the wrong decision, I know I made the best decision with the information available to me but I will next time either wait for the vet or get the budgie to see Jock or Ivan (as their info aligned with the vets info)

 

I just feel like I have failed the hen but I know that was best with the information available to me at the time but still feels like a kick in the guts.

It wasn't you that did anything wrong here AV, it was the vet

Av did you try the drop of calcivet on her beak? 9 times out 10 the hen passes the egg with in 30 mins

Av did you try the drop of calcivet on her beak? 9 times out 10 the hen passes the egg with in 30 mins

 

 

Neat I did not think of this and I am not sure it would have helped. The egg was visable and had pulled the membrane out of her with it. Hence why my vet said she was not egg bound but prolapsed.

Av did you try the drop of calcivet on her beak? 9 times out 10 the hen passes the egg with in 30 mins

 

 

Neat I did not think of this and I am not sure it would have helped. The egg was visable and had pulled the membrane out of her with it. Hence why my vet said she was not egg bound but prolapsed.

 

I am so sorry AV

I agree that you didnt do the wrong thing.

I had a hen prolapse a few years ago, she was old and laid it out of the blue - i took her to the vet and had her put to sleep

 

I give AviCal to my breeders 4 days out of 7 in the cabinet.

Av did you try the drop of calcivet on her beak? 9 times out 10 the hen passes the egg with in 30 mins

 

 

Neat I did not think of this and I am not sure it would have helped. The egg was visable and had pulled the membrane out of her with it. Hence why my vet said she was not egg bound but prolapsed.

 

 

Oh Poor thing - Agree to about you not doing the wrong thing mate

 

((HUGS))

Edited September 22, 200816 yr by KAZ

Honey, you did everything right. So don't feel bad.

 

Interested by the smashing of the egg though. Everywhere that I have read has said not to smash the egg, or the hen will die. I don't know why that is, but it is always written, perhaps to prevent any chance of infection. ??? I'm open to it.

Sometimes these things happen and you can't do anything about it. Hugs

 

Even though she was prolapsed, she was still egg bound. The membrane you speak of would be her uterus.

Edited September 22, 200816 yr by Sailorwolf

Is that for a egg bound hen though SW or for a prolapse? I've always heard that for an egg bound hen but figured maybe it was different if the hen was prolapsed.

Here is an ODD concept.

 

sitting the vent of a egg bound hen in a small dish of vinegar. The vinegar would make the egg shell soft and easier to extract without breaking it. - i have no proof of this and i dont know if its safe, just a thought i had when remembering back to school science lessons.

It would have to be quite diluted as vinegar is very acidic and may cause mor problems than it fixed. At the dilution required I'm not sure it would help. Also if you recall it took quite a few hours to do that experiment Liv and if I was a budgie I don't think I'd want to sit in vinegar all day

AV I'm so sorry for your lost it's so sad to read...

SW I think the reason they said to smash the egg was that it was 100% external or at the very least 95% external so you are removing the weight that is pulling the membrane/uterus down and out.

 

I guess when only a small amount is still attached then leaving that small amount and attempting to soak/lube the remaing egg shell off is what they are trying to do. I guess it will always be one of those things that I am going to wonder what would have happened if I had done X.

okay so. The whole calcium supplementing thing as with cows, totally different to birds. Here is the link where I explain it, Go past the first post, and go down to my post I made today: Budgies and Calcium

 

Very interesting today, we talked about egg binding in chickens.

Some of the procedures they do:

Keep the hen warm, give lots of fluids (intravenous fluids, with calcium and other goodies) I would think giving them orally would be fine as well. Calcium gives them the strength to help push the egg out (it is required for muscle contraction).

Give them oxytocin (a drug that contracts the muscles in the uterus).

Do a hysterectomy

Do a hysterotomy (like a caesarean section )

Do an ovocentesis - suck the yolk out of the egg with a needle and then it will collapse and she can pass it out.

 

These last 4 options should only be done by a vet.

 

Also another thing I learned in the last few days about chickens is when they lay their egg, their uterus prolapses out with it and then once the egg comes out, it goes back in. Don't know whether or not this happens in budgies.

 

And gout is often the result of kidney problems.

Edited September 25, 200816 yr by Sailorwolf

Also another thing I learned in the last few days about chickens is when they lay their egg, their uterus prolapses out with it and then once the egg comes out, it goes back in. Don't know whether or not this happens in budgies.

 

From my research and talking to other breeders this is true to an extent. That is why if the egg is external from the body you should smash it and remove as much as possible. The issue with my hen was that part of the egg was stuck to the uterus and when the vet pulled it off she tore the uterus. That is why the recommend that you remove the non stuck egg parts lube the area and let the body take the uterus and the remaining egg back into the body where it will be broken down.

 

they (being my vet and other breeders) say to make sure the hen gets antibiotics, heat and is watched and not put in a situation to breed agian for a few months.