Hello!

As many of you know, I am planning to get a budgie as soon as body corporate gives us written permission (all fingers and toes crossed that they do!)

 

The thing is, we live in a townhouse. It's not big, but it's nice and open downstairs, and there are glass doors and windows looking out at greenery, and we have a tiny courtyard too. So I don't think it's too squashy a place to keep a budgie in a nice sized cage.

 

But the only thing is... it's an open plan downstairs, so the lounge room, dining room and kitchen are all one big open space. It's not like there are walls separating the kitchen from the rest of the house. Upstairs is only really small - bedrooms and bathroom, and can get quite hot - so the cage will have to be kept downstairs so the budgie has lots of nice views of outside and a large room, and can watch us walk around doing stuff.

 

I'm just wondering, if I kept the cage in the loungeroom, do you think that will be okay? Because I know that budgies are not supposed to be too close to teflon when you're cooking. Of course the cage won't actually be IN the kitchen, and the thingamy above the stovetop will be on sucking up the fumes and hotness whenever we use frying pans... .but I just wanted to check. How close to the stove do you think is safe to keep the cage? It's just because the kitchen doesn't have any walls or barriers, so technically the cage will be in the same space as the kitchen, even though it's not going to be all that close to the frying pan.

 

I am thinking we'll be okay, but I just thought I'd check. Let me know if you need me to clarify anything.

You really should not use teflon at all in your home. Personally I have Merlin in my study which is off my kitchen but the door faces the living room which then goes into the kitchen. If you use teflon I would ensure that the room you put your bird in can be closed when you are cooking.

Teflon is really only toxic when it is heated up really high, especially if you heat the pan with out food on it. We use teflon in our house and my budgies have never had a problem. We have an open plan house and I had them in the lounge one night (they stay in my bedroom) and I cooked with teflon, but I made sure that I had the range hood on full.

I've never had any problems. I you are overly worried you could always buy different pans, like copper or stainless steel pans.

 

If you want to put him in the lounge just put him the furtherest away. Open plan houses are more airy so the fumes won't be so concentrated at least.

I actually don't even know if our pans are teflon lol... I'd have to check. I have just been assuming they are to be on the safe side, but it's probably better to actually get around to looking at them to know for sure. Most of our pots and pans and our wok definitely aren't, but there's one or two frying pans that I suspect could be.

 

It wouldn't be all that close to the teflon pan when it's cooking, and I guess I could always move the cage upstairs into a bedroom or outside in the courtyard just while we cook with teflon if I'm not sure.

:hap: I am sure that where you want to put it/ them would be fine ...

I have my kitchen, the dinning room entrance which is all open plan . I have my birds located in the Entrance which is opposite the lounge room ( during winter the fire place is on and get rather hot in there & summer the Air con makes it quite cool ) so we still have daily sontact with the birds

 

I have issues with birds that kept IN THE KITCHEN - This raises alot of health issues even if you are a Clean freak

THE DANGERS OF TEFLON PANS

 

In two to five minutes on a conventional stovetop, cookware coated with Teflon and other non-stick surfaces can exceed temperatures at which the coating breaks apart and emits toxic particles and gases linked to hundreds, perhaps thousands, of pet bird deaths and an unknown number of human illnesses each year, according to tests commissioned by Environmental Working Group (EWG).

 

In new tests conducted by a university food safety professor, a generic non-stick frying pan preheated on a conventional, electric stovetop burner reached 736°F in three minutes and 20 seconds, with temperatures still rising when the tests were terminated. A Teflon pan reached 721°F in just five minutes under the same test conditions (See Figure 1), as measured by a commercially available infrared thermometer. DuPont studies show that the Teflon offgases toxic particulates at 446°F. At 680°F Teflon pans release at least six toxic gases, including two carcinogens, two global pollutants, and MFA, a chemical lethal to humans at low doses. At temperatures that DuPont scientists claim are reached on stovetop drip pans (1000°F), non-stick coatings break down to a chemical warfare agent known as PFIB, and a chemical analog of the WWII nerve gas phosgene.

 

For the past fifty years DuPont has claimed that their Teflon coatings do not emit hazardous chemicals through normal use. In a recent press release, DuPont wrote that "significant decomposition of the coating will occur only when temperatures exceed about 660 degrees F (340 degrees C). These temperatures alone are well above the normal cooking range." These new tests show that cookware exceeds these temperatures and turns toxic through the common act of preheating a pan, on a burner set on high. In cases of "Teflon toxicosis," as the bird poisonings are called, the lungs of exposed birds hemorrhage and fill with fluid, leading to suffocation. DuPont acknowledges that the fumes can also sicken people, a condition called "polymer fume fever." DuPont has never studied the incidence of the fever among users of the billions of non-stick pots and pans sold around the world. Neither has the company studied the long-term effects from the sickness, or the extent to which Teflon exposures lead to human illnesses believed erroneously to be the common flu.

 

The government has not assessed the safety of non-stick cookware. According to a Food and Drug Administration (FDA) food safety scientist: "You won't find a regulation anywhere on the books that specifically addresses cookwares," although the FDA approved Teflon for contact with food in 1960 based on a food frying study that found higher levels of Teflon chemicals in hamburger cooked on heat-aged and old pans. At the time, FDA judged these levels to be of little health significance. Of the 6.9 million bird-owning households in the US that claim an estimated 19 million pet birds, many don't know know that Teflon poses an acute hazard to birds. Most non-stick cookware carries no warning label. DuPont publicly acknowledges that Teflon can kill birds, but the company-produced public service brochure on bird safety discusses the hazards of ceiling fans, mirrors, toilets, and cats before mentioning the dangers of Teflon fumes. As a result of the new data showing that non-stick surfaces reach toxic temperatures in a matter of minutes, EWG has petitioned the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) to require that cookware and heated appliances bearing non-stick coatings must carry a label warning of the acute hazard the coating poses to pet birds. Additionally, we recommend that bird owners completely avoid cookware and heated appliances with non-stick coatings. Alternative cookware includes stainless steel and cast iron, neither of which offgases persistent pollutants that kill birds.

 

Teflon kills birds

 

Avian veterinarians have known for decades that Teflon-coated and other non-stick cookware can produce fumes that are highly toxic to birds. As early as 1986, a Chicago-area expert on Teflon toxicosis called the phenomenon a leading cause of death among birds, and estimated that hundreds of birds are killed by the fumes and particles emitted from Teflon-coated products each year. Although an accurate national accounting of deaths is not available, in a single year this Chicago veterinarian documented 296 bird deaths in 105 cases involving non-stick cookware.

 

Under ordinary cooking scenarios, Teflon kills birds. A review of the literature and bird owners’ accounts of personal experience with Teflon toxicosis shows that Teflon can be lethal at normal cooking temperatures, with no human lapses in judgment or wakefulness.

 

Bird deaths have been documented during or immediately after the following normal cooking scenarios:

 

New Teflon-lined Amana oven was used to bake biscuits at 325°F; all the owner’s baby parrots died. Four stovetop burners, underlined with Teflon-coated drip pans, were preheated in preparation for Thanksgiving dinner; 14 birds died within 15 minutes. Nonstick cookie sheet was placed under oven broiler to catch the drippings; 107 chicks died. Self-cleaning feature on the oven was used; a $2,000 bird died. Set of Teflon pans, including egg poaching pan, were attributed to seven bird deaths over seven years. Water burned off a hot pan; more than 55 birds died.

 

Electric skillet at 300°F and space heater were used simultaneously; pet bird died. Toaster oven with a non-stick coating was used to prepare food at a normal temperature; bird survived but suffered respiratory distress. Water being heated for hot cocoa boiled off completely; pet bird died. Grill plate on gas stove used to prepare food at normal temperatures; two birds died on two separate occasions.

 

DuPont claims that its coating remains intact indefinitely at 500°F. Experiences of consumers whose birds have died from fumes generated at lower temperatures show that this is not the case. In one case researchers at the University of Missouri documented the death of about 1,000 broiler chicks exposed to offgas products from coated heat lamps at 396°F.

 

DuPont also claims that human illness will be produced only in cases involved gross overheating, or burning the food to an inedible state. Yet DuPont's own scientists have concluded that polymer fume fever in humans is possible at 662°F, a temperature easily exceeded when a pan is preheated on a burner or placed beneath a broiler, or in a self-cleaning oven.

 

Written by: Environmental Working Group

Edited August 30, 200816 yr by KAZ

Wow thanks for that...very informative! I can't remember where I first heard of the teflon thing, but I heard it ages ago. Scary that so many people with birds as pets don't know at all. I would have really liked to know how far away these birds were from the teflon when they died though. I mean, if it has a really wide range, then even getting rid of your own teflon might not be enough - even your neighbours' pans could emit fumes... just wonder exactly how big the danger zone is.

I would use other cookware with a bird in the house :hap:

Excellent article Kaz, I think I would like to use that for the FAQ if that is okay. I believe the importance is shrugged off at times. My sister in law kept her birds in the kitchen (I posted this in a section don't do with budgies) and within a month they were dead. :hap:

i always move Bing into our spare room when my mum is cooking with pots and pans, we also have an open space with the lounge room and kitchen connected with no walls etc...

Edited August 30, 200816 yr by maesie
typo

Here is an interesting article too on Teflon Article to Read CLICK

 

One of the points I do want to point out from the article "You may be thinking that you only use your nonstick pots and pans at low temperatures so you will be safe. Don't make that assumption. A day may come when you may accidently leave a pan on a hot burner, or your kids or someone helping you out at a party may not know and cook something at a high temperature and by the time the mistake is realized it may be too late. "

 

This topic like others are debatable, you do what is best with your circumstance, the best thing you can do is take the information and then do what is best for your bird in your own household.

Edited August 30, 200816 yr by Elly

I have seen the test in that article done. As SW said it is based on a dry pan, the same test done with food in the pan didn't reach that temperature. A dry pan will reach those sort of temperatures though as it oesn't have the cooling effect of the food cooking in the pan.

My house is open plan and my birds are about 3 - 4 meters from my stove. I don't own or use any teflon - its the safest option in my mind.

I have accidentally heated up a nonstick pan with no food in it it before and the fumes were gross. It was making me cough. I put on the range hood and opened all the windows. But it felt kind of caustic. My budgies were fine, but they live in my bedroom, which is at the other end of the house.