I just thought I might write about this as, I don't know if it happens in birds, but it does happen in cows (and other mammals). So I thought I would post this for a little food for thought and open for discussion.

 

In the body there is a set of 4 glands located adjacent to the thyroid gland in the neck (in the chest in birds). These glands concurrently are called parathyroid glands. Parathyroid glands help regulate calcium levels in the blood by producing parathyroid hormone. Parathyroid hormone causes increased calcium uptake by the intestines and kidneys and causes deconstruction of the bones, to achieve its primary goal of increasing serum calcium levels (calcium in the blood). There is another hormone called Calcitonin secreted by the thyroid gland, which does the opposite to Parathyroid hormone.

 

Sometimes cows, before they give birth are given calcium to increase their stores, I guess. However because they are being supplemented with calcium their parathyroid glands do not need to do any work as the body has a high or high enough calcium concentration in its blood. Since the parathyroid glands are not doing any work they atrophy (shrink). However once calving and lactation occurs the supplemented dietary calcium is not enough to cope with the demands by the cow and thus her parathyroid glands need to kick in and start making parathyroid hormone. But because her parathyroid glands have atrophied they can't produce enough parathyroid hormone to cope with her demands either and the cow becomes hypocalcaemic. Symptoms of hypocalcaemia are muscle weakness (which can lead to dystocia (trouble giving birth), a point of note for birds which lay clutches).

 

So inorder to prevent this from happening it is thought not to supplement them with too much calcium, this way their parathyroid glands do not atrophy before calving and lactation.

 

However I do not know if this applies to birds, because well, we haven't really been taught about this yet. Theoretically it should as they have thyroid glands etc and they need to regulate their calcium.

The line comes down to the fact that one needs to build up their calcium stores in their bones to prevent their stores from becoming depleted. Perhaps one should lay off the calcium a few weeks before laying in order for the bird's parathyroids to catch up and then when laying commences, or a day or too before, resupplement.

 

I would like some thoughts on this issue. Comments?

Probably one of the vet-types will know more about the intricacies of glands and all. Notwithstanding, from experience I think added Calcivet a few weeks before breeding is vital.

 

Last year I bought a hen and put her down almost immediately so she didn't get the Calcivet in the lead up and although she got it in the water for the time she was in the breeding cabinet 3 out 4 chicks went on to have splayed legs. It's the only time I've had this and it is also the only time one of my hens did not get Calcivet for a few weeks prior to breeding.

 

As a rule of thumb I do not give my birds Calcivet during their 'holiday' when they've finished breeding and are in the outside flights. But I do give it to them all in the lead up and of course the young birds do get it to help with their bone development.

LOL Sailorwolf is one of out vet types!

 

But I think you can overdose a bird on Calcium but I think it would be hard

Edited September 25, 200816 yr by KAZ
fixed shortcut

Splayed legs is not caused by lack of calcium (well to my knowledge anyway).

 

Overdosing (as in causing hypercalcaemia) with dietary calcium is quite hard I think. However I did go to a talk to the other day and it showed a picture of Great dane puppies who had too much calcium in their food and they had rather bent legs. Probably got osteopetrosis or something (don't know my bone stuff that well yet )

Edited August 24, 200816 yr by Sailorwolf

I have stopped adding Liquid Calcium to my waters too Apart from the week build up to breeding .

I stick to cuttle bones and calcium enriched food that why they have it when they need it ...

 

I haven't yet had splayed legs :budgiedance:

I definitely think too much enfaces is placed on supplying Calcium to Budgies, as most of the articles on it by experts I have read on the net say that too much can damage the kidneys. I think the best way of supplying it is via Cuttlefish bone, Calcium blocks & also I think that soft food that contains egg & some form of pellet or crumble contains quite an amount of it. At least by these methods the bird can choose the amount it needs, whereas Calcivet or something similar in the water has to be taken if the birds needs water & the bird can’t control it’s need of Calcium. I have never used Clacivet myself & only have a few cases of egg binding & I just think like with anything some birds are not good at absorbing Calcium & these birds are better culled.

okay, so I talked to my lecturer/avian vet (he is both!) who is a very knowledgable man. He said that they aren't like cows at all. So scrap what I said/proposed above. okay this is what he said. He said that budgies should be given calcium supplements starting around about a month before you start to breed them. This is because they store their calcium in their bones. When they are not laying or breeding they should be given a rest. As in what I took from that was that they don't really need to be supplemented with calcium while they aren't breeding.

He said birds are often given heaps of calcium, because some people like to churn out the baby budgies (which I am not saying ANY of you do (you are all very responsible ) ) and in this case they will need it all the time if they are being constantly bred. And also in situations where they have bad diets, which most budgies do have.

 

So basically what I took away from that was to start supplementing calcium a month before you breed them and then when you aren't breeding them give them a rest from it.

 

My thoughts are the same as Norm, leave it out of their drinking water, because at least then they have a choice. Breeding hens require a lot of water and if the only water they can get has calcium all through it, then they will drink it and may drink too much. Go for the cuttle fish bones and bells and pellets and egg mash things. Egg shell is a good calcium source.

okay, so I talked to my lecturer/avian vet (he is both!) who is a very knowledgable man. He said that they aren't like cows at all. So scrap what I said/proposed above. okay this is what he said. He said that budgies should be given calcium supplements starting around about a month before you start to breed them. This is because they store their calcium in their bones. When they are not laying or breeding they should be given a rest. As in what I took from that was that they don't really need to be supplemented with calcium while they aren't breeding.

He said birds are often given heaps of calcium, because some people like to churn out the baby budgies (which I am not saying ANY of you do (you are all very responsible ) ) and in this case they will need it all the time if they are being constantly bred. And also in situations where they have bad diets, which most budgies do have.

 

So basically what I took away from that was to start supplementing calcium a month before you breed them and then when you aren't breeding them give them a rest from it.

 

My thoughts are the same as Norm, leave it out of their drinking water, because at least then they have a choice. Breeding hens require a lot of water and if the only water they can get has calcium all through it, then they will drink it and may drink too much. Go for the cuttle fish bones and bells and pellets and egg mash things. Egg shell is a good calcium source.

 

Great information SW and so comforting to know that i am doing it right

Well that's good

I only write what I know, so hence I only learnt that today

That is awesome SW - Thank you ....

 

Would you agree that too much calcium could lead to calcium build up / deposits with in the bird ?

Well to be honest I'm not sure. But it would be most very likely.

 

Calcium build up can happen in animals, when this happens and it is chronic, they deposit calcium in all sorts of places, like inside the chest wall. You can see calcium lining the ribs. I think it also builds up in the kidneys and can make things worse. Some hormonal disease can cause it to build up in the lungs. This is for mammals, not so sure on birds, although I don't see why it wouldn't.

That is what I thought too - Interesting though