Heya,

 

What is Rickets ... Is it splayed legs??

Rickets is kind of worse. Babies suddenly are on their backs with legs in spastic fashion, having no strength...weak and floppy. Due to severe lack of calcium. Not always to do with whether or not the parents had calcium supplied...sometimes the inability of the hen to process the calcium to the benfit of the chicks. This is my understanding of it through experience with it.

okay so it is a serve case of splayed legs?????

Budgie with the splits???

okay so it is a serve case of splayed legs?????

Budgie with the splits???

YES

Kaz is splayed legs caused from the same thing or something different? Or is splay legs a general word and there is usually an underlying reason?

Splayed legs seems to be more of an inflamation of a joint and additional calcium helps fix it. It is often said it is due to hens who sit "too tight"or the slippery floor of the nestbox...all these things can contribute but I dont believe the hens theory is really the reason.

gotcha, because the post made it look like they could be 1 in the same.

 

Splay legs and Rickets are different but causing the split leg look.

gotcha, because the post made it look like they could be 1 in the same.

 

Splay legs and Rickets are different but causing the split leg look.

Not really.....rickets makes the chicks lay on their backs as their legs totally arent any good to them. Splayed leg chicks can still support their body.

Reptiles also get Rickets... again, from a lack of calcium. It is usually the young ones that get it and it causes tremers/shakes and their bones don't form properly. A regular dose of calcium and access to UV light usually fixes it if caught early enough.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rickets

Thanks DRnat, I wasn't too sure if it was the same as in Humans or not :hap:

 

 

:hap: :hap:

 

Thank you all for your replies, I have heard the term alot, and I had no idea what it was I just assume it may have been another word for splayed legs, But Glad I asked now thanks

Splayed legs may or may not be caused by lack of Calcium, but Rickets is caused by the lack of Calcium.

Then there are genetic faults; I have a nice Yellow Faced Voilet hen I bought [show type] she had one young one in one of her batches of young that had legs going in all directions [not splayed legs] now two of her daughters all YF Violets have had the same in their batches. It must be quite a strong genetic thing as the hen line has been mated with three different lines & still it’s occurring, I’m hoping that in the next generation it will be removed. I euthanased all effected young.

Splayed legs may or may not be caused by lack of Calcium, but Rickets is caused by the lack of Calcium.

Then there are genetic faults; I have a nice Yellow Faced Voilet hen I bought [show type] she had one young one in one of her batches of young that had legs going in all directions [not splayed legs] now two of her daughters all YF Violets have had the same in their batches. It must be quite a strong genetic thing as the hen line has been mated with three different lines & still it’s occurring, I’m hoping that in the next generation it will be removed. I euthanased all effected young.

Me too Norm. I had a hen despite all supplements of calcium that continually produced chicks with rickets. The vet suggested she had a hereditary condition that meant she could not process calcium to her chicks. I sold the hen as a non breeder.

Splayed is a general term describing the position of the legs. It is not the name of a disease.

 

Information from my notes:

Ricketts often results from dietary deficiences of either phosphorus or vitamin D. Calcium deficiency on its own causes either osteoporosis or fibrous osteodystrophy but not rickets.

Vit D deficiancy can be a result of lack of ultraviolet light which can happen during winter.

Problems may also occur if Vit D deficiency is associated with deficiencies in other essential nutrients and minerals eg Phosphorus or copper.

 

CSx

Stiffness and or lameness

Reluctance to stand in severe cases

Swelling of joints

Pathological fractures

Soft or bent bones

 

So from this I would say make sure your birds are getting adequate sunlight and dietary Vit D. Perhaps it would be a good idea to research whhich plants are high in Vit D

So Lack of VitD is the reasons Hmmm that is really interesting... Added to my notes

thanks all

Edited August 12, 200816 yr by KAZ
fixed emoticons

Ah. I have always known what Sailorwolf said- as a medical term rickets is caused by vitamin D deficiency, and osteoporosis (mainly) by calcium deficiency. It has always confused me around here, because most seem to associate rickets with calcium, not vitamin D.

They are both intimately linked in maintaining bone, which is probably lending to the confusion.

Yes and vitamin D is involved in the regulation of Calcium.

 

Calcium deficiency can result in fibrous osteodystrophy, which is when bone is destroyed because of the increased demand by the body for calcium and is replaced by fibrous tissue. This causes the bone to become soft and pliable. Dogs with this problem get what is known as "rubber jaw" and the description fits the name. You can physically bend the jaw. This can happen to any dog or horse (probably all animals) if they are deficient in calcium for a long time.

I'm trying to find a picture but Google doesn't have any. Can't use any of our lecture pictures due to copyrights.

 

Come on Google ad people, read this and put up an awesome link with a picture of fibrous osteodystrophy aka "rubber jaw"

Edited August 14, 200816 yr by Sailorwolf

Hey SW, here's what Ritchie BW, Harrison GJ, Harrison LR. Calcium metabolism. In: Avian medicine: principles and application Wingers Publishing, Florida 1994:590 said.

Rickets or rachitis is a metabolically induced bone disease in growing animals. Painful deformities occur throughout the skeleton, particularly in the proximal tibiotarsus, the head of the ribs and sometimes the costochondral junction. The skeleton and the beak (rubber beak) become soft and pliable. Rickets can be caused by inadequate dietary intake of calcium, phosphorus or vitamin D3 or by an improper calcium:phosphorus ratio.

And from (MD McGavin Zachary JF, Rickets and osteomalacia. In: Pathologic Basis of Veterinary Disease Elsevier, Missouri 2007;1074)

Failure of mineralisation with subsequent bone deformities and fractures is called rickets in the growing skeleton, and osteomalacia in the adult. The most common causes of rickets and osteomalacia are deficiency of vitamin D or phosphorus. Failure of mineralisation and rickets and/or osteomalacia can occur in chronic renal disease and chronic fluorosis.

I thought the same as you though. Again, it is a bit confusing because of the interactions of vitamin D, calcium and also phosphorus - getting enough of these and getting the right balance.

 

I can't put up my photos of rubber jaw either. It's also called osteodystrophia fibrosa and osteitis fibrosa, but that didn't turn anything up on google either. There's some nice photos in my pathology textbooks too.

Edited August 15, 200816 yr by Chrysocome

Yeah I was going off of what my notes said and it directly said that calcium deficiency does not cause ricketts, however I think it is mainly meaning mammals, but I would assume birds would be the same, seeing as they have the same (or very similar) process. I guess because Vit D and Calcium are so intimately involved, it can be tricky.

 

So I guess supplementing with calcium AND Vit D3 is a good idea to prevent both Ricketts and fibrous osteodystrophy.

 

The first reference you quoted says the beak and skeleton becomes pliable. Does that happen in ricketts? I thought only in FOD.

 

haha I just realised I've been spelling Rickets with two 'T's like Rickettsia. lol

Edited August 16, 200816 yr by Sailorwolf