If I bred a DFSpangle to a DFSpangle would all chicks be DFS?

 

If I bred my DFS hen to a white Lacewing cock what would the chicks be? - the cock is split to spangle and albino and melanistic spangle.

Here is a great link that should answer your question :offtopic:

 

Here

If I bred a DFSpangle to a DFSpangle would all chicks be DFS?

 

If I bred my DFS hen to a white Lacewing cock what would the chicks be? - the cock is split to spangle and albino and melanistic spangle.

You will get 100% DFS

The lacewing cock cannot be split spangle , Spangle is Dominent

Not true they can be split for Lacewing because it is a composite of variety of lutino/albino and cinnamon which are both sex-linked genes (meaning they reside on the x-chromosome) a different allele then the spangle gene.

 

If I bred my DFS hen to a white Lacewing cock what would the chicks be? - the cock is split to spangle and albino and melanistic spangle.

 

Now the lacewing cock is not split to ino because the ino & cinnamon gene combined is what makes him a lacewing now as for spangle & melanistic spangle I thought they reside on the same allele so they have to be 1 or the other not both.

 

What you would have is this paring Double Factor Hen x Spangle or M. Spangle Lacewing Cock

 

You would have a 50% chance of Doubles Factors & 50% chance of Single Factor Spangles

As for the Lacewing Gene, you could have lacewing chicks and they will all be females.

 

I am pretty sure I did this right, it is early :offtopic:

Edited April 8, 200817 yr by Elly

Theoretically DFS x DFS = 100% DFS, but there are exceptions - it has been known for normals to come out of such pairings occasionally, because the spangle gene is autosomal incomplete dominant (or semi-dominant). Also not sure with spangles and melanistic spangles if they are different alleles for the same gene or if they are different genes.

 

Second question hard to answer, the information in the question is unclear?

What is the squire bird, is he a lacewing, is he a lacewing/ino, is he a spangle/lacewing, is he a spangle&lacewing/ino or a spangle/lacewing&ino ?

 

ZW female and ZZ male chromosome system for birds.

(To eliminate confusion since opposite XY male and XX female in humans and most mammals)

 

Cinnamon and Ino are separate genes on the Z chromosome. My thinking on lacewings is that the males ZZ can have cin+ino linked (lacewing) on one Z chromosome and can have either nothing, cin, ino or cin+ino on the other one, and I am not sure of the dominance relationship between variants. That is the only way I have been able to explain some of the unexpected breeding results of cinnamons and inos coming out of lacewing breedings. I am guessing that if these genes can cross chromosomes and link up, they can also unlink as well. Unless, there is more than one gene for cinnamon or ino or look-alikes which just gets confusing.

 

I believe there may be either more than one allele, or even more than one gene for opaline, since I have personally bred a normal hen out of a pair of opalines, which is theoretically impossible. So perhaps this is the case with cinnamon and ino. No one really knows exactly what goes on in DNA soup.

 

Genes do spontaneously mutate, so they probably spontaneously revert also.

Put your birds together and keep the heritage and results and see what happens.

If you get any interesting results I am sure the person who runs this website would be interested in publishing them http://www.euronet.nl/users/hnl/index.html#Articles

Edited April 8, 200817 yr by DrNat

I believe there may be either more than one allele, or even more than one gene for opaline, since I have personally bred a normal hen out of a pair of opalines, which is theoretically impossible. So perhaps this is the case with cinnamon and ino. No one really knows exactly what goes on in DNA soup.

 

This is very interest, the question probably asked was the baby closed bred or was the egg fertilzed by another cock and then separated with you knowing? Sperm can stay alive I read for a week.

Edited April 9, 200817 yr by KAZ

Don't forget that if there are 2 sex linked genes one will act as though it is reccessive!!!!!!

Here is a great link that should answer your question Here

YEAH it is being used !!! .....

Not true they can be split for Lacewing because it is a composite of variety of lutino/albino and cinnamon which are both sex-linked genes (meaning they reside on the x-chromosome) a different allele then the spangle gene.

 

If I bred my DFS hen to a white Lacewing cock what would the chicks be? - the cock is split to spangle and albino and melanistic spangle.

 

Now the lacewing cock is not split to ino because the ino & cinnamon gene combined is what makes him a lacewing now as for spangle & melanistic spangle I thought they reside on the same allele so they have to be 1 or the other not both.

 

What you would have is this paring Double Factor Hen x Spangle or M. Spangle Lacewing Cock

 

You would have a 50% chance of Doubles Factors & 50% chance of Single Factor Spangles

As for the Lacewing Gene, you could have lacewing chicks and they will all be females.

 

I am pretty sure I did this right, it is early :hap:

Hey Elly , I have no prob with your explanition , but I was refering to the sentance "the cock is split Spangle"

:hap:

He can be masking spangle but not be split for it.

Gotcha lonebudgie sorry about that Daz's explanation takes care of that :budgiedance:

I'll see if I can provide more information on this cock bird.

His name is Darcy.

 

This is a picture of him when young:

 

 

I didn't see any lacewing on him until after his first major moult.

He currently has fathered chicks with a gray opaline (naughty boy is only 10 months old!).

His lacewing markings are very light and only visible in strong light (or good eyesight).

His mum is Albino.

 

 

This is his father:

 

 

His father bred Melanistic Spangles - when paired with a Double Factor Spangle hen.

 

This is a male they bred:

 

These are 2 girls they produced (both melanistic spangles) of which Daz bought one & has bred further Melanistics:

 

 

(Laughing out loud) I hope I didn't balls this up with the extra info!

Edited April 9, 200817 yr by karen

The father bred m. spangles so that must have come from the hen that he was paired with. The only chance he is carrying the m. spangle is if his mum the albino is carrying the gene. That is if m. spangle is dominant which I think it is.

 

What were the outcomes of the chick for him on the first clutch with the gray opaline hen?

 

As for the lacewing, I read that when the cinnamon gene is not a strong marker that it can come in after a couple molts making the bird look white and then the markings come in, I read that is a poor trait in lacewings and it is within the genetic pool of the bird.

Edited April 9, 200817 yr by Elly

okay this is my two cents on this…my thoughts…on your Lacewing cock, his mother was an Albion, so we can’t be sure of her genetic makeup…the father to me looks like a Dilute Green Spangle [what do others think?]…He must be split for Cinnamon, as some of those Melanistic Spangles look like Cinnamons to me. If he is Spangle you might think that the Melanistic came form him, but it also could have come from the Albion hen, as we don’t know what she is masking.

 

If Ino’s can mask their true genetics maybe Lacewings can do the same, maybe why your Lacewing didn’t show his marking until the first moult is because he is also a Spangle or even a Melanistic.

 

What were his chicks with the Opaline Grey hen Karen? Did he produce any Spangles? If he’s a Lacewing his hens should have been Lacewings?

They are only 2 weeks old and the eldest was just getting it's fluffy feathers when I checked Sunday. We shall have to wait for them to colour up - might try and get a picture on the weekend.

When going through my breeding records last night (keep them in my head) I do believe that Darcy is a half uncle to the gray opaline hen (who is 2yrs older) who's he's bred with.

Problem is I was never 100% sure who her father was - it was either the violet/cinnamon cock above, or a recessive pied cock.

Will that add any difference to possibility of chick colouring?

yes it can because it depends on dark factors that either one of the parents could have given

wow... genetics... it does my head in, but I still find myself sitting here reading article upon article of genetics.

this family line again I think there is always going to be some questions as to what they are carrying here. as others have stated it's unclear on just what the first hen was masking with the ino gene.

I was out with the gray opalines parents. Her mother is albino & father normal cobalt.

 

I only have 1 chick left as the second had an extremely bad case of leg splay.

Both chicks were feather plucked too so I am not sure if he's opaline.

 

 

 

gorgeous Karen