I would still chose to hesistate even with the vet's advice. (I am not saying he doesn't know) For me common sense previals. The body needs to rest bird or beast after any major illness or set-back with health.

 

I personally would addle the eggs very well until she has grown tired of them. Therefore you are not taking them away and she is laying more and more. Again your choice and everything may work out well even with our mother hen talk.

 

I don't know how long budgies really live in the wild but in our domestic birds everywhere I have read 6 yrs is pushing it for a hen to breed. That is advice I would take seriously.

 

Chow

I really question the advice of this vet. There have been a lot of times when you have written things this vet has said or advised and I have had raised eyebrows reading it. I would have found another avian vet by now.

 

If she needed company another female would be a better option. Raising the chicks takes a lot out of the hen, and the cock as well. I hope that she is strong enough to cope. If it were my bird I would have taken away the first egg.

 

 

Feathers.

I have been toiling over this for days now, this whole thing is stressing me out quite a bit. I really trust my vet, he knows what he is doing and the vet hospital that they go to is the best in the country, police dogs are flown in on helicopter to get treated here. We have 3 avian vets here on site. Research is constantly being conducted everyday. I even bumped into my vet in the post mortem room, while he was doing a necropsy on a Kiwi. We get wildlife through our vet hospital all the time.

I am finding this quite hard at the moment.

Pulling her may also add undue stress. I am constantly thinking every few minutes " Am I doing the right thing? Should i pull her? No cause then she will be a chronic egg layer. Maybe I should addle the eggs? maybe, but she will just do it again. But that will stop her for now, but what if raising babies would actually be good for her. Am I being selfish? I don't know maybe I am, but she looks healthy and she is determined to do it, but then again do I just want babies. But is having babies what she needs to do right now. She's too old to breed, but the vet said that she is healthy and not that bad, but should I stop it, or will she go into depression? I should addle the eggs, but i don't like the idea of killing a baby, but I should, because a dead baby and a healthy mum is better."

As you can see, I am freaking out a bit.

I have been toiling over this for days now, this whole thing is stressing me out quite a bit. I really trust my vet, he knows what he is doing and the vet hospital that they go to is the best in the country, police dogs are flown in on helicopter to get treated here. We have 3 avian vets here on site. Research is constantly being conducted everyday. I even bumped into my vet in the post mortem room, while he was doing a necropsy on a Kiwi. We get wildlife through our vet hospital all the time.

I am finding this quite hard at the moment.

Pulling her may also add undue stress. I am constantly thinking every few minutes " Am I doing the right thing? Should i pull her? No cause then she will be a chronic egg layer.

She will lay maybe just one more egg probably from the perch and then stop, if you separate her right now. Chronic egglayer ...NO. She is laying as Emmett is with her and they are having "budgie sex"...pure and simple

 

Maybe I should addle the eggs? maybe, but she will just do it again. But that will stop her for now, but what if raising babies would actually be good for her. Am I being selfish? I don't know maybe I am, but she looks healthy and she is determined to do it, but then again do I just want babies. But is having babies what she needs to do right now. She's too old to breed, but the vet said that she is healthy and not that bad, but should I stop it, or will she go into depression? I should addle the eggs, but i don't like the idea of killing a baby, but I should, because a dead baby and a healthy mum is better."

As you can see, I am freaking out a bit.

 

Sailorwolf...I could answer you point by point and indeed I began that way BUT...

I am going to talk straight with you here and tell you what you probably know deep within. I am not doing this to upset you..I actually have grave concerns for your Saffy.

I do NOT believe that you should continue breeding Saffy...now or in the future. She is too old. She has very recently had a serious illness .

I DO Believe your desire for babies from her and Emmett right now is over riding your rational thought processes.

I DO believe that your vet is telling you what you want to hear based on your information to him. He does not have to live with the consequences of your actions here...you do.

Addling eggs cannot be seen as killing a baby...that is lateral thinking at its worst. You eat eggs for breakfast dont

you ?!

Quote " But is having babies what she needs to do right now."...unquote.....

Budgies will breed until it kills them ...what she needs does not matter. Budgies dont think like that.

Frankly this is about what you desire right now and that is babies. It should be about Saffy and I do NOT think it is anymore. You can justify breeding her now so soon after an serious issue, anyway you like. You can find anyone to agree with you to back up what I really think you know in your conscience is wrong in this case.

Do what you like. But I will be looking for Saffy's RIP in Memorium section sooner or later if she breeds this time. I will not pat you on the back and say sorry it happened. You know what you have to do really, you are just looking for reasons and excuses to proceed.

I am sorry if this is hurtful in any way. That isnt my intention. I just wish you would stop and think and put Saffy's future life first. I do not think that is happening here right now

Edited August 28, 200717 yr by **KAZ**

I also know that the breeders whom are experience on the boards are giving excellent advice. Not saying that your vet is not. My question is how can you say that a bird that was on her death bed not even 2 weeks ago is now healthy enough to have a family? Human beings don't recover that quickly from an almost death experience and we are stronger of the 2 species. I can understand you going back and forth. Though myself I can't wrap my mind around how this vet or any vet (no matter how experience or acclaimed they are) can say she is healthy enough to raise a family which I find is more stressful then addling the eggs.

 

Adding on...I 2nd Kaz statements & opinion if anyone on this board as the experience of breeding she does and I trust her completely. She has experience I think almost everything one can experience (many heartbreaks for sure and many happy moments).

Edited August 28, 200717 yr by Elly

G`Day,Slege hammer here.Look I think,this has gone far enough.You are talking about a budgie,4c sake, not a mother to be.Talk about killing a baby.Its not a baby,its A EGG.Sailorwolf,arnt you training to be a Vet.Put the bird in the flight,she will soon forget about laying,if thats what you want her to do.

To be honest guys, i like babies, everyone likes babies, but I wouldn't put my budgie's life at risk because of it. I can't believe you guys actually think that I am that selfish. What I wrote above, was the constant ramblings, toilings and frustrations going through my mind as I try to decide what is best for her. I think this is a very supportive forum and I know those words weren't meant to be offensive, but they cut deep.I think it would be a good idea to boil the eggs, but there is something in me that just doesn't want to do it, makes me feel sick. I'm sorry you think that way.You see the thing is I haven't actually made any decision yet, I haven't decided to let her go through with it and I haven't decided to stop her yet, that is what I am discussing here. I am very seriously considering this whole situation.

Every egg she lays, while you are considering what to do, is taking it's toll on her body and robbing her of nutrients that she could use in recovering from her recent illness.

 

What is worse?

1. Addling her eggs or
   
2. Saffy dying
   

THAT is your choice

 

There are many people on this board who have a lot of experience and who are normally very supportive, but I haven't seen any one of these people support you in this, in fact they all think you are doing the wrong thing. Doesn't that ring alarm bells for you? It would for me.

 

Nobody is trying to upset you, what is being expressed is concern for Saffy.

 

 

Feathers.

Sailorwolf.............

 

You do NOT have a chronic egg layer in Saffy....she lays eggs because you have her with a young male who is having "budgie sex" with her. Thats it. No real relationship to Phoebe's problem with her chronic egglayers at all.

 

You will NOT create a chronic egg layer out of Saffy if you remove her from her partner. As I said before, she may well lay another egg or two upon removal from Emmett as per the cycle and that will be that.

 

Selfish ?...maybe. But noone brought up the topic of selfish. You did.

 

Addling eggs ? or boiling eggs ? You seem to care more about the " Death of an egg " than the likely death of an aged hen pushed far past her physical reserves. By the way, I never cook eggs either...no need ...an egg is just an egg. I dont " count my chickens before they hatch" so to me an egg is just an egg until it produces a chick.

 

Babies ? YES you do want them, thats obvious. Find Emmett another girl ( Younger than Saffy ) amongst your flock and do it that way to satisfy your need for cute babies.

 

QUOTE " but should I stop it, or will she go into depression? " UNQUOTE ...answer NO. It is a mistake to liken too many human emotions and attributes to a budgie. Could "depression" also come when she hasnt the full health to complete the raising of babies ? many hens once they fall ill during the raising of chicks, abandon the chicks to their death by starvation and try to save themselves.

 

A six year old budgie having babies is like a 60 year old human having babies. Unthinkable.

 

QUOTE "You see the thing is I haven't actually made any decision yet, I haven't decided to let her go through with it and I haven't decided to stop her yet" UNQUOTE What are you waiting for ?

To say OOPSS!! Too late...the eggs have hatched ? many an overworked hen has died on top of her eggs or young chicks.

 

Many people are trying to help you here. But there comes a moment where exasperation and futility sets in and those that are giving of their time and energy and vast experience...just....give up.

Edited August 28, 200717 yr by **KAZ**

Hi Sailor, every time I notice that you have logged on I have been hoping for an update to this topic, preferably telling us that you have taken Saffy out of any breeding environment and that she has been given the retirement that she has earned and thoroughly deserves. Please tell me this is the case.

 

 

Feathers.

Can i just remind people that for some people decisions like this are HARD when to others they seem like they should be a no brainer. Sensitivity is always helpful when dealing with people, please be tactful when presenting your opinion and keep the discussion from becoming heated.

 

What I wrote above, was the constant ramblings, toilings and frustrations going through my mind as I try to decide what is best for her. I think this is a very supportive forum and I know those words weren't meant to be offensive, but they cut deep.I think it would be a good idea to boil the eggs, but there is something in me that just doesn't want to do it, makes me feel sick.

Sailorwolf i know exactly how you feel. Decisions like this are tough to make EMOTIONALLY even though they should be quite simple to make LOGICALLY. We get attached to our pets and we do put human wants and needs on them. This isn't wrong of us i don't think, people do it all the time.

 

With Saffy just having bounced back from the terrifying experience of being egg bound, it's probably not in her best interest to be breeding right now. There's also the age issue. I have got the same issue with shaking/boiling eggs when they're being looked after. If a budgie lays from a perch, then it's no issue, but if it's being incubated and i know there's a possibility of it being fertile i feel sick to think of destroying a chance at life.

 

However, i have watched a hen (Razzo, Blinkie's mum and the super mum of my flock before she died) try to breed so often that i could see her physically wearing thin. When i noticed this she was really drained, because my desire for everything to be fine and for her to keep being able to raise babies and be happy was such that i let it cloud reality. Reality was that she wasn't fit to breed anymore. She was about 5 years old, and she was ready for a rest. In the end i realised this and i chucked the eggs she'd laid and was incubating, and put her in the flight. I'd rather she live than die raising babies.

 

I felt SO sick to have thrown those eggs out! I was just about ready to get Razzo back in and scoop those eggs out of the bin. But after a few attempts at laying in the aviary food bowls and a few eggs laid on the aviary floor she was happy to be pampered by her mate and boss all the other hens around. She lived until she was 6 i think, and i think she was a very happy budgie in her retirement once she had the idea of breeding out of her mind.

 

I think it's when we can make unselfish decisions like this, that is what makes us good pet owners. Some things to do with what's right and wrong in bird keeping are tough, but that's always the way it is with decisions like this. It's important to think about Saffy first, you have other budgies that can give you babies if that's what you want, but Saffy, while seemingly fit and healthy now, could be at a point where getting from start to finish of laying eggs and raising chicks is too much for her body. She could lose body condition much more quickly than hens in the peak of their breeding years, and then you could end up with dead chicks when she's too worn to care for them. And that would be much worse than losing a few eggs now.

 

Hope this helped!

Edited September 1, 200717 yr by Bea

Again, it is very difficult to always give an appropriate response and to understand the other's point of view as this forum is comprised of 3 groups of people, breeders (show or not), budgie owners and a middle mix category group. I can understand where you are coming from, you are not uncaring and have learned over the years many things to help out your birds without needing an avian vet. But it is really hard to get close up and personal when you have many, many budgies. Those of us that are pet owners have a very close relationship with our birds as they live with us and we have tamed them (or tried to) , always want the best for them and try to seek out the advice of an avian vet as we are inexperienced in such matters. In doing so, many a budgie has been given antibiotics or other treatments (like if they are eggbound) to save it's life. From a bird rescue point of view, I get upset and disgusted but sometimes it isn't always the peoples' fault, they just didn't know or try to seek help. Each case must be considered separately and we must do first and foremost what is best for the BIRD in question.

Edited September 16, 201014 yr by KAZ

If these people were so careing,they would`nt put there pets in the position

they have.We give sound advice.,If don`t agree fair enough.But don`t come back

on & say,you can`t do this or that,because it is to stressful.We are thinking of the

birds, well being & quility of life. So think of the bird feelings & not your own.

 

As the saying goes,If you have live stock.You have sick stock & dead stock & they

should`nt have to suffer because,the owner is stressed

The advice has been given, enough time has gone by for a decision to be made. Will you update us please? Your silence has us thinking that Saffy is still sitting on those eggs? I am sure that many will be upset if she is but we would rather have your decision and know that Saffy is okay then not know at all :ausb:.

Sailorwolf, WHAT is going on, we have given our opinions, there is nothing else to say and we just want to know which route you decided on for Saffy. :ausb:

Sailorwolf, as you have provided help to other posters, I think it would only be fair to say what is going on in your world with Saffy. Thanks.